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Author Topic: David Farkas has posted his Leica S2 review  (Read 18921 times)
c5gowin
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« on: November 13, 2009, 04:11:13 PM »
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FYI - David Farkas has posted an excellent Leica S2 review here www.dfarkas.blogspot.com

The review contains a lot of details about the S2 and its operation. It is a good read even if you aren't seriously considering the S2. It's a must if you are considering the S2. No review can't replace your own hands-on test of a camera, but it will give you a head start on learning the camera controls, operation, features, etc. and it likely trigger some things you want to ponder and pay particular attention to when you finally do get to try the camera. At least that is how I use a good camera review.

Mark Gowin
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Hywel
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 06:35:15 PM »
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It is a very nice review, and does point out some of the differences that set the S2 apart from the current crop of MF cameras (environmental sealing, for example). I'd certainly have taken a long hard look at the S2 if it had been available when I invested in my MF system earlier this year... although everything does cost twice as much!

It is a little gushing in places, but that's easy to forgive when someone clearly really likes the camera they are shooting with

  Cheers, Hywel Phillips
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 06:36:45 PM by Hywel » Logged
asf
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 06:51:26 PM »
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cyberean
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 07:20:08 PM »
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Quote from: asf
"It is a little gushing in places, but that's easy to forgive when someone clearly sells the camera they are shooting with"

Slight edit for you
             

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gdwhalen
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2009, 07:21:18 PM »
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Quote from: cyberean


There is no such thing as an unbiased review.
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asf
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2009, 08:30:46 PM »
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Josef Isayo
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 08:48:04 PM »
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I went to a Toyota dealership today where the salesman told me they make great cars. It was good enough for me.
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cyberean
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 09:18:04 PM »
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Quote from: gdwhalen
There is no such thing as an unbiased review.
... some are just biaser than others  
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michael
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 09:40:12 PM »
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David's review is based on his two days of shooting with an S2 pre-production model back in August.

I received an early production S2 with 70 and 180mm lenses this week, and will be posting my review here within the next two weeks.

Michael
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 09:55:15 PM by michael » Logged
dfarkas
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 09:56:21 PM »
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Quote from: asf
This is interesting (if unsurprising):

"I still remember a location shoot a few years ago where a friend of mine using the Leaf Aptus 75 (about $35K at the time) had to run from the beach into the bushes to see anything on his LCD screen. And, when your entire camera operation is touch screen like the Aptus, you have a little bit of a problem when it is invisible in daylight. On that same shoot, there was a photographer who was working with an Imacon back on his Hasselblad 501 C/M. Brave soul as he was, he was shooting low-down, lying on his stomach within striking distance of the Florida surf. Sure enough, a large wave came tumbling in and his camera got wet. After that heart-stopping experience, he just watched the rest of us. Turns out the back was fine after it dried out for a few hours, but the shoot was over for him."*

So 2 photographers, same shoot, both with extremely expensive cameras, apparently no assistants, no clients ... but the dealer was there?
I've been in this business a long time and this doesn't sound like a job to me.

Oh wait, it was a workshop


*(emphasis mine)

Actually, I wasn't a dealer for either system (Leaf or Imacon) on that shoot. I arranged a photo shoot at the beach for some out of town photographers to have fun. There was no sales pitch. How could there be? I was there to shoot for myself. It certainly wasn't a workshop, and I didn't get paid for it. I hosted them, provided the models, location, etc. so we could all go out and just have a good time. It is actually possible to enjoy taking pictures just for the fun of it.    Just like it is possible for me to be friends with other photographers who may or may not be my customers.

David
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 09:59:11 PM by dfarkas » Logged

David Farkas
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asf
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 10:15:09 PM »
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c5gowin
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 10:25:17 PM »
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Quote from: asf
...So 2 photographers, same shoot, both with extremely expensive cameras, apparently no assistants, no clients ... but the dealer was there?
I've been in this business a long time and this doesn't sound like a job to me.

Oh wait, it was a workshop


*(emphasis mine)

I started this thread to inform those interested in the S2 that there was a new review available. Instead of generating a discussion on the S2, the thread quickly degenerated into an attack on the reviewer. That is sad. It is fine to point out that David is a Leica dealer and that he is enthusiastic about the S2. But, why is it necessary to go beyond facts and add inflammatory assumptions and commentary.

1. Were you on the shoot David described?
2. How do you know there weren't any assistants on the shoot?
3. Is it so hard to believe that a person that sells cameras may also be a photographer?
4. AFAIK David is not a dealer for Leaf, Imacon, or Hasselblad. So what is with the "dealer was there" comment and why would it matter anyway?
5. What makes you think it was a workshop and even if it was what difference would it make in the point of the story?

I remember now why I don't post on forums very often. Some people behave very differently than they would in a face-to-face discussion and those few make the forum experience unnecessarily unpleasant.

Mark Gowin
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c5gowin
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 10:39:11 PM »
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David, I am glad you chimed in to clarify. I must have been typing my post when you posted your comments as I didn't see them or I wouldn't have felt the need to comment myself.

Michael, I look forward to your review of the S2. You have been using digital MF for a long time and will undoubtably have some good insights.
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asf
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 10:43:21 PM »
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1. Nope. I commented based on what he wrote and my experience being on professional shoots. Assumptions were made, some were incorrect and have been addressed.
2. I used the word apparently. An assistant would have most likely saved the 501 from the wave.
3. Anyone can be a photographer
4. I commented on this previously
5. It sounded like a workshop. What's wrong with that? If you like I can edit in "I guess" before that statement. A workshop as opposed to a job. See my subsequent comment.

I commented on the review you announced. It's a review by someone both impartial and knowledgeable. The part I quoted I found telling. The S2 (and many other MFDBs) are presented as Pro cameras. This shoot we later learned was a fun shoot. I don't know any pros who engage in such activities, esp with such cameras.

I don't believe I attacked David personally in my comments
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 10:50:21 PM »
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Hi,

In my view David's article contained excellent information. He also disclosed his involvement with Leica. He was clearly impressed by the Leica and there is nothing wrong with that. Lab measurements are objective, or at least pretend to be, everything else is subjective, we need to learn to live with that. No review is without a bias, if you like a product you have a positive bias and if you dislike it you have a negative bias. Some reviewers try hanrder to be objective than others.

Leica made a great show on the 9/9 2009, nothing compares with good and honest presentation, factory tour, proud, self confient  and openminded developers.

Congratulations to all involved!

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: c5gowin
I started this thread to inform those interested in the S2 that there was a new review available. Instead of generating a discussion on the S2, the thread quickly degenerated into an attack on the reviewer. That is sad. It is fine to point out that David is a Leica dealer and that he is enthusiastic about the S2. But, why is it necessary to go beyond facts and add inflammatory assumptions and commentary.

1. Were you on the shoot David described?
2. How do you know there weren't any assistants on the shoot?
3. Is it so hard to believe that a person that sells cameras may also be a photographer?
4. AFAIK David is not a dealer for Leaf, Imacon, or Hasselblad. So what is with the "dealer was there" comment and why would it matter anyway?
5. What makes you think it was a workshop and even if it was what difference would it make in the point of the story?

I remember now why I don't post on forums very often. Some people behave very differently than they would in a face-to-face discussion and those few make the forum experience unnecessarily unpleasant.

Mark Gowin
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 10:54:13 PM »
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Michael,

I enjoyed David's presentation and I'm looking forward to your review. I guess I never be on the waiting list for either Phase One or any Leica, but find the articles interesting. Leica did a good job on 9/9 and I'd believe they deserved a lot of sympathy those days in September.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: michael
David's review is based on his two days of shooting with an S2 pre-production model back in August.

I received an early production S2 with 70 and 180mm lenses this week, and will be posting my review here within the next two weeks.

Michael
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bradleygibson
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« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 11:19:19 PM »
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Thank you, David for the review.

I appreciate the up-front disclosures you put in front of the article as well as the fact that you shared the glitches you ran into (minor or not).  This enables me to make up my own mind about your comments with the benefit of proper context.

If I had found them too biased it would have been an easy matter to simply move on (your open disclosure makes the criticism some seem to feel somewhat puzzling to me), but personally I found your comments made for interesting reading.

Thanks,
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 11:23:29 PM by bradleygibson » Logged

dfarkas
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« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 11:30:08 PM »
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Quote from: asf
1. Nope. I commented based on what he wrote and my experience being on professional shoots. Assumptions were made, some were incorrect and have been addressed.
2. I used the word apparently. An assistant would have most likely saved the 501 from the wave.
3. Anyone can be a photographer
4. I commented on this previously
5. It sounded like a workshop. What's wrong with that? If you like I can edit in "I guess" before that statement. A workshop as opposed to a job. See my subsequent comment.

I commented on the review you announced. It's a review by someone both impartial and knowledgeable. The part I quoted I found telling. The S2 (and many other MFDBs) are presented as Pro cameras. This shoot we later learned was a fun shoot. I don't know any pros who engage in such activities, esp with such cameras.

I don't believe I attacked David personally in my comments

Perhaps I'll clarify further. There were five photographers present: an enthusiastic and knowledgeable amateur, three full-time working pros and myself. Besides having a good time, two of these guys had each just purchased Aptus 75 backs in Atlanta days earlier. This was an opportunity to go outside and stage a shoot without the pressures of a real job with clients and deadlines. Usually, it's a good idea to be familiar with your own equipment before using it for paying jobs. If you prefer to call this personal work, that's fine.

There are some photographers who want to know the ins and outs of their cameras and lighting equipment for themselves. Then, there are others that show up to a shoot, have assistants set up the lights and have a digital tech hand them a camera with the settings already dialed in. Not saying one is right or wrong, but these guys came out to learn about their systems first hand.

While I understand that you don't feel like you were attacking me personally, you did insinuate a lack of integrity and credibility on my part. And frankly, that does insult me. I work very hard to provide accurate and insightful information from the perspective of a photographer, not a dealer. If you disagree with something I've written, then say so, but please don't use my openness as a dealer to cast doubt on my conclusions.  

David



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David Farkas
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 11:45:41 PM »
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I did not mean to insult you or insinuate your review was inaccurate in any way.  

As a photographer, not as a dealer, would you buy this camera?
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rethmeier
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2009, 12:08:58 AM »
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I think it looks like an awesome camera.
If it had 3  Tilt Shift lenses readily available,I certainly would consider one.
Best,
Willem.

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Willem Rethmeier
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