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Author Topic: David Farkas has posted his Leica S2 review  (Read 20638 times)
eronald
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« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2009, 07:02:59 AM »
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Mr. Farkas has done a very nice writeup of his experiences with the S2, but I don't think anything apart from real-world usage will actually be able to inform the decisions of people who really *shoot* their cameras, and real studio samples.

Oh, and btw, anyone seen an ISO 640 sample, yet?

Edmund
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 07:07:28 AM by eronald » Logged
markowich
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« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2009, 07:37:32 AM »
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Quote from: eronald
Mr. Farkas has done a very nice writeup of his experiences with the S2, but I don't think anything apart from real-world usage will actually be able to inform the decisions of people who really *shoot* their cameras, and real studio samples.

Oh, and btw, anyone seen an ISO 640 sample, yet?

Edmund

yes, i have seen recent DNGs. worse than what the M9 produces. final firmware might get 1/2 stop improvement, not more. rather dreadful, even compared to the P65+.
the S2 is a nice camera with an untimely sensor, unless you only shouut base iso.
peter
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eronald
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« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2009, 07:51:15 AM »
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Quote from: markowich
yes, i have seen recent DNGs. worse than what the M9 produces. final firmware might get 1/2 stop improvement, not more. rather dreadful, even compared to the P65+.
the S2 is a nice camera with an untimely sensor, unless you only shouut base iso.
peter

Yeah, Kodak and Dalsa seem to want their customers to fail.

Edmund
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AlexM
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« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2009, 10:56:42 AM »
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To me the image quality looks like something in between a DSLR and a MF camera, more on the DSLR side for some reason. Bokeh is good, though.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2009, 01:58:39 PM »
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Exactly, because that's what it is, a "middle" format system. To me it looks on both sides equally. Resolution more on the MF side but it lacks some of the 3D effect of the bigger sensors like 48X36 and beyond.
Eduardo

Quote from: Oleksiy
To me the image quality looks like something in between a DSLR and a MF camera, more on the DSLR side for some reason. Bokeh is good, though.
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michael
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« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2009, 04:02:08 PM »
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Quote from: markowich
yes, i have seen recent DNGs. worse than what the M9 produces. final firmware might get 1/2 stop improvement, not more. rather dreadful, even compared to the P65+.
the S2 is a nice camera with an untimely sensor, unless you only shouut base iso.
peter

With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.

I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.

Michael
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 04:09:01 PM by michael » Logged
gdwhalen
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« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2009, 04:26:29 PM »
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Quote from: michael
With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.

I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.

Michael

One of the great tricks in reading forums.  Filtering out the truth from the fiction.
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eronald
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« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2009, 04:37:28 PM »
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Quote from: michael
With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.

I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.

Michael

Show us.


Edmund
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2009, 05:22:05 PM »
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Michael,

Are you using LR3 Beta? on my A900 noise is like night and day between 2.5 and 3Beta at high ISO.

I'm looking forward to your review. For some reason, David Farkas "review" got a lot of negative comments.

And S2 i something that I neither need nor can afford, but it's always interesting to read about leading technology. In my humble view the videos from your visit at Leica were most informative, and that also aplies to the videos from Phase One.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: michael
With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.

I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.

Michael
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michael
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« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2009, 07:11:56 PM »
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Quote from: eronald
Show us.


Edmund

As soon as I have a little time I'll put some files up. I'm busy shooting and doing tests because I only have the camera for another 11 days. There'll be lots of time afterward for processing and posting.

Michael
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John Camp
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« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2009, 08:02:31 PM »
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Quote from: michael
With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.
<snip>
Michael


A thorough literary analysis of the two separate clauses of this statement suggests to me that Michael was not entirely sincere in making it.
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James R Russell
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« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2009, 08:45:05 PM »
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Quote from: michael
As soon as I have a little time I'll put some files up. I'm busy shooting and doing tests because I only have the camera for another 11 days. There'll be lots of time afterward for processing and posting.

Michael

Michael,

There is a lot of talk that the S-2 is for the country club set and not intended for professional photographers, though Leica seems to continually portray this camera as a fashion, people camera, so when you do you test, please do the following.

1.  Track focus with a subject, even one walking to or from camera.   It doesn't have to be a fast pace, but something along these lines.



2.  Do a tethered test and shoot 300 to 400 images in succession.  It can be of a foot, it doesn't matter but guage how long it takes to see an image on screen, if the images can be named coming into the computer, if the software connection between the
Leica software and Lightroom is stable and holds up.  If it doesn't how long it takes to restart the system.

3.  When tethered, does the lcd work, can you shoot to card and computer at the same time and can the photographer scroll through the images on the camera while connected to the computer.

4.  Please post some jpeg examples of how they look in relationship to the raws (for web gallery delivery).

Thx.

JR

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michael
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« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2009, 08:55:07 PM »
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James,

I did some focus tracking tests today, of joggers in the park. Not so good. :-(

I have a studio shoot scheduled for later in the week. Planning on tethered shooting, but not sure if the software is yet up to snuff.

But so far the image quality is superb. :-)

Michael
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 08:55:42 PM by michael » Logged
James R Russell
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« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2009, 08:57:01 PM »
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Quote from: michael
James,

I did some focus tracking tests today, of joggers in the park. Not so good. :-(

I have a studio shoot scheduled for later in the week. Planning on tethered shooting, but not sure if the software is yet up to snuff.

But so far the image quality is superb. :-)

Michael


Thanks

JR
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2009, 09:52:26 PM »
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Michael,

It would be nice if you could post some comparable pictures between S2, Phase One, 20+MP DSLR, M9 and Micro 4/3, preferably in RAW or DNG. I presume that this would be an invitation to arguments for those who always complain, about tests by others but newer publish anything of their own. The 2006 MFDB shootout was a great example of a well executed test.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: michael
As soon as I have a little time I'll put some files up. I'm busy shooting and doing tests because I only have the camera for another 11 days. There'll be lots of time afterward for processing and posting.

Michael
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markowich
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« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2009, 02:39:37 AM »
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Quote from: michael
With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.

I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.

Michael

with all due respect, i have already noticed that we have diverging IQ standards at times. so this time please show us comparative
high iso tests with shots not taken in bright light under the best of all conditions. we are interested in how the camera renders
transition zones and low light shooting. your review will surely make an interesting read.
looking forward, peter
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lisa_r
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« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2009, 09:14:58 AM »
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"Can we please have a show of hands then, as to who want's to be the photographer, who looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.

Come on BC, it's called advertising - you know how it works - we all do.
Lets face it, it's what most of us do for a living, day in, day out.

So why expect these companies to do anything different than you do... because I'm sure you don't show your new clients all the out-takes, of things that have gone wrong during shoots."

============
I agree that what JR is asking for is important information to know. It would not need to be a documentary of a photographer botching a shoot, but it could be a demonstration that shows that you can unplug, shoot handheld to a card, and then replug, and within 30 seconds be back shooting tethered again. **This, to me, would be a major selling point.**

Rather than have to shut down while you restart the camera, restart the computer, restart the shooting app, unplug and replug the wires a few times, etc., etc.
I have been recently been to a demo of phase backs where the dealer could not keep the camera tethered properly, there were multiple software relaunches, etc., etc. It is an absolute turn-off, and I walked out, instead of spending 15 grand like I otherwise may have. I am thinking about shooting with art directors breathing down my neck, and 15-minute glitchy restarts do not appeal to me. I am pretty sure that every photographer I know would like this info about any camera they are about to buy for commerce: Is it plug and play or plug and pray?
(the money is on the table and the clock is ticking...)
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gwhitf
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« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2009, 09:39:16 AM »
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Quote from: lisa_r
It would not need to be a documentary of a photographer botching a shoot, but it could be a demonstration that shows that you can unplug, shoot handheld to a card, and then replug, and within 30 seconds be back shooting tethered again. **This, to me, would be a major selling point.**

That is a great post. I agree completely. It's always amazed me why retailer or dealer or even manufacturers don't use free services like YouTube to demonstrate how something really works. YouTube is there for the asking. It does not have to be some slick Hollywood production; actually, in my opinion, it's almost more believable if it IS just some guy in a field, or in an office, and it's one handheld 5D2, and it just one guy talking.

I remember I was considering the H2 once, and a friend of mine had one, and he said, "Hey, let's just go on iChat and I'll show you how fast it shoots". So we did. There we were, with some nasty video feed, with the laptop lid camera, but he held the button down and held it up, and you could put your faith in it, and really get a sense of it, much differently than some slick Hollywood production.

Imagine if there was a video, and some guy is shooting tethered, and he yanks the FW cable to shoot some frames to card, (or a makeup artist trips over it), and he can then just plug it back in and you really watch how simple it is (or not) to regain the connection. Even a bad jerky video like that, real world, would mean more to me than a polished (and heavily edited) manufacturer video.

You can go onto YouTube to find out how to change a tire, start a fire, put on makeup, cook food -- shouldn't there be a video there showing real world camera use too? (Or would the truth be too scary?)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 09:41:14 AM by gwhitf » Logged
asf
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« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2009, 09:44:08 AM »
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That's what I was getting at in my earlier posts - I don't think people like Lisa or JR or BC or GWITF are the target for these cameras no matter how "pro" the systems want to appear.
PODAS is the target. People who shoot for enjoyment, or art, or themselves. In groups on the beach perhaps. People who can afford it and feel they need it. People who don't have AD's to answer to or insane amounts to shoot in a week, day or hour. Not people who will complain because the software is glitchy, the lenses aren't in rental or don't exist at all, or taste their own bile in their throats when they realize how much easier and more reliable DPP is.
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PierreVandevenne
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« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2009, 10:53:02 AM »
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Quote from: asf
That's what I was getting at in my earlier posts - I don't think people like Lisa or JR or BC or GWITF are the target for these cameras no matter how "pro" the systems want to appear. PODAS is the target.

Right. Whenever JR posts something, I am reminded that the world is unfair...  
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