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Author Topic: David Farkas has posted his Leica S2 review  (Read 18894 times)
ziocan
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« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2009, 11:31:58 AM »
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Quote from: lisa_r
Rather than have to shut down while you restart the camera, restart the computer, restart the shooting app, unplug and replug the wires a few times, etc., etc.
I have been recently been to a demo of phase backs where the dealer could not keep the camera tethered properly, there were multiple software relaunches, etc., etc. It is an absolute turn-off, and I walked out, instead of spending 15 grand like I otherwise may have. I am thinking about shooting with art directors breathing down my neck, and 15-minute glitchy restarts do not appeal to me. I am pretty sure that every photographer I know would like this info about any camera they are about to buy for commerce: Is it plug and play or plug and pray?
(the money is on the table and the clock is ticking...)
Tough luck for the Phase rep. LOL

Last week I shot an editorial of about 8/900 captures in 1 day with my pee thirty. I have deliberately unplugged it a few times (when i was between shots) and never had a problem when reconnecting it. not even needed of restarting the software once during the day.
I normally unplug the Phase back and reconnect it when i'm between shots and hardly have a problem.  I even had lunch in between the last "unplug and re-plug" and got it back to work after the coffee without problems. LOL

BTW still running C1  version 4.8, on snow leopard and a macbook pro.

I have to say that one of the pleasant surprises of using the Phase back this year, has been reliability and good connectivity.



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lisa_r
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« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2009, 04:54:33 PM »
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Quote from: asf
I don't think people like Lisa or JR or BC or GWITF are the target for these cameras no matter how "pro" the systems want to appear.
PODAS is the target. People who shoot for enjoyment, or art, or themselves. In groups on the beach perhaps. People who can afford it and feel they need it. People who don't have AD's to answer to or insane amounts to shoot in a week,

Ahem: Just Announced!!! The $15,000 hermes M7, available in either orange or etoupe calfskin leather.



Just sayin.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 04:55:39 PM by lisa_r » Logged
eronald
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« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2009, 05:12:14 PM »
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Quote from: lisa_r

Gag me with a spoon, that's so tubular!

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
lisa_r
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« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2009, 05:40:50 PM »
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It also looks like a very poor photoshop job, er, applying the orange to that one in the back...for $15K can't they at least shoot the actual product?  

(ok, I know I am way off topic here, so back to the business of the S2...)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 05:41:40 PM by lisa_r » Logged
pschefz
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« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2009, 06:53:50 PM »
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just read the aptus 10 review....it goes pretty much against everything asked for in this thread (and by many of us for quite a while)....lack of software support, with promises of future fixes, camera/back freezes (because one dares to shoot before the back is ready!),....several calls to tech support necessary within the first days....all this on a seemingly mature product at a very hefty price...of course buying a leaf back is an adventurous choice these days but still, i used to own a valeo and all in all it worked pretty well....

i am surprised by the well natured tone of the reviewer...like buying DMF is supposed to be a strange experience at best....and i am glad that he is happy with his purchase and the quality....

to be honest i never had any experiences like these with my leaf or phase backs....yes there were some issues and some lock ups, but all in all not even close to what is described in this review....i am amazed to how low the expectations have dropped....

i don't really want to beat a dead horse but a 5DII has none of these issues and does so much more for so much less...yes it does not provide the ultimate image quality and there is a difference in the files....but why the handling issues?

i also hate to do the old car comparison but this is like the steering wheel coming off in the ferrari at 150mph....not fun...by far not as lethal but not fun at all....and it leaves a bad taste....after waiting for 6! weeeks for this high end thing i kind of expect it to work and not freeze...even with an older contax body...or don't sell it for contax at least warn people that they HAVE to wait for the beep or prepare for a total system meltdown....

considering that with the m8 the story was similar (with the magenta, filter, coding,...issues)....i can't wait to see what the s2 will be like....as with all cameras (and especially those with aging sensors like this one in the S2) by the time it actually ships it already feels like old news....and the idea that there is no working tethering software/firmware available YET is a little strange for a camera whose studio/workflow capabilities are a main selling point....

i thought it wasn't shipping because demand was so high? if that was the case shouldn't the software be ready? and for the S2 to "make it" it should be absolutely bullet proof by now and perform everyhting asked for here.....as far as i remember i could yank the cord with my P30 and shoot to card, and plug it back in and shoot to card and computer...no problems...
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« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2009, 08:22:51 PM »
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Quote from: lisa_r
no need to exaggerate ... it's only $14,250.
a real a bargain, compared to the s2.  and won't be obsolete in 12 months. (ok, maybe the colors will)  
actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,
to spare one the agony of having to choose between these two power colors.


just sayn' ...
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check out the size of my sensor ...
pschefz
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« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2009, 08:46:28 PM »
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Quote from: cyberean
no need to exaggerate ... it's only $14,250.
a real a bargain, compared to the s2.  and won't be obsolete in 12 months. (ok, maybe the colors will)  
actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,
to spare one the agony of having to choose between these two power colors.


just sayn' ...

funny thing is....since there are only 100 made....they probably are a pretty good investment....just don't use them (too much)...
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PierreVandevenne
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« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2009, 03:43:36 AM »
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Quote from: cyberean
actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,

As far as color is concerned, it can easily be solved with a piece or two of gaffer tape.
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eronald
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« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2009, 03:56:55 AM »
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If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor, or guarantee that the electronics (even the AF) are modular and can be factory-swapped. Shipping a slow sensor like that in a dSLR format is suicidal. I don't think they'll get more than one chance at this market, unless they offer huge trade-ins for the owners of a mediocre first generation.

When you have a 5D or something your lenses are typically worth as much as the camera. Here many owners are going to own a couple of lenses, and if the camera doesn't perform paying for the new model which costs twice as much as the lenses will be a non-runner.

Edmund

Quote from: pschefz
considering that with the m8 the story was similar (with the magenta, filter, coding,...issues)....i can't wait to see what the s2 will be like....as with all cameras (and especially those with aging sensors like this one in the S2) by the time it actually ships it already feels like old news....and the idea that there is no working tethering software/firmware available YET is a little strange for a camera whose studio/workflow capabilities are a main selling point....and shoot to card, and plug it back in and shoot to card and computer...no problems...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 04:00:58 AM by eronald » Logged

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georgl
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« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2009, 04:55:14 AM »
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"If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor"
And what sensor should they use instead? >4fps and liveview would be cool but sacrificing quality <640ASA to achieve that in such a camera? Has anybody really seen any camera which is capable of higher per-pixel-quality than the current 6m-CCD-MFDBs? Please, show me one sample with higher DR, better tonal range/transition, detail...
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Slough
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« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2009, 05:07:46 AM »
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Quote from: cyberean
no need to exaggerate ... it's only $14,250.
a real a bargain, compared to the s2.  and won't be obsolete in 12 months. (ok, maybe the colors will)  
actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,
to spare one the agony of having to choose between these two power colors.


just sayn' ...

No doubt the orange one is aimed at road workers, and the brown one at the people who drive pooper scoopers. I wonder if these cameras come with a courtesy red nose and revolving bow tie?
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eronald
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« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2009, 05:23:05 AM »
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Quote from: georgl
"If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor"
And what sensor should they use instead? >4fps and liveview would be cool but sacrificing quality <640ASA to achieve that in such a camera? Has anybody really seen any camera which is capable of higher per-pixel-quality than the current 6m-CCD-MFDBs? Please, show me one sample with higher DR, better tonal range/transition, detail...

Why should this product, which doesn't exist be better than the ones which do, and which are inadequate?

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
markowich
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« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2009, 05:25:09 AM »
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Quote from: georgl
"If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor"
And what sensor should they use instead? >4fps and liveview would be cool but sacrificing quality <640ASA to achieve that in such a camera? Has anybody really seen any camera which is capable of higher per-pixel-quality than the current 6m-CCD-MFDBs? Please, show me one sample with higher DR, better tonal range/transition, detail...

i agree that at base iso the current 6mu CCDs perform best. but many people like to put those sensors on technical cameras to allow for
movements and to further optimize IQ. this is not possible with the S2...so there we are, with a base iso DSLR. slightly better (base iso)
IQ than the D3x, much less convenience (live view, image stabilized lenses etc), very restricted system and finally the ridiculous price.
peter
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eronald
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« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2009, 06:52:03 AM »
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Quote from: markowich
i agree that at base iso the current 6mu CCDs perform best. but many people like to put those sensors on technical cameras to allow for
movements and to further optimize IQ. this is not possible with the S2...so there we are, with a base iso DSLR. slightly better (base iso)
IQ than the D3x, much less convenience (live view, image stabilized lenses etc), very restricted system and finally the ridiculous price.
peter

The problem with the price is that the sensor costs almost nothing in that size (sub $1K, it's size, not MP which counts) and the rest of the camera is just an oversized R9.
You're not paying for camera build quality, you're paying for Leica to amortize the same electronics and image processing R&D as for a Nikon D3x on a production run of a couple of thousand. And you're paying for the promotional celebrity giveaways.
In other words you're paying for Leica to reinvent itself in the digital space. I'm happy you will be the one doing the paying.

Edmund
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 06:54:06 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
gwhitf
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« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2009, 07:05:33 AM »
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Quote from: eronald
And you're paying for the promotional celebrity giveaways.

If the M7 has a limited-edition run of 100 bodies at $14k apiece, imagine what the limited-edition run of the Leopard "Seal" S2 version would sell for! But at least it would be water-resistant. Maybe a cool $100,000k per body, and it comes delivered in its own Matthew Barney fish tank?

Stop the madness. The 80's are over.
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Geoffreyg
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« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2009, 06:37:23 AM »
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Does it seem to anyone else that there are two divergent strands regarding the s2?

One strand focuses on IQ - lens and sensor integration, optical performance, etc. It is likely the s2 will excel at this, as its Leica's strength for years.

A second strand of interests focuses on the larger picture and the overall system integration of the camera with its files to a larger set of issues that are part of a contemporary pro's life. Software flexibility and integration, file compatibility, tethering, debugging, rental availability, and service are all part of this second set of issues. Obviously, with digital work some of theseare more critical than in the days of film. But are all of them equally important? Not necessarily.

Can a pro accept a camera that excels in IQ but not necessarily in the second set? Is there a minimum acceptable performance level for the second criteria, which all serious cameras must meet? Then we could recognize that some are better than others in that way - and some companies, especially really big ones, are going to do better than smaller ones?

A pro's threshold in each of these categories may be different than the serious amateur. A pro might accept slightly less IQ performance, as they search for better systems performance. An amateur, however discerning, may well be willing to give up some things (rentability, service, or even tethering) in search of portability and IQ. Different pros may have different sets of priorities as well.

The idea here is to encourage more definition and separation of these issues, and perhaps reduce the carping and clutter that comes with it.
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Geoff
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« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2009, 07:25:12 AM »
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Quote from: Geoffreyg
Does it seem to anyone else that there are two divergent strands regarding the s2?

There's also handling, ergonomics and usability in the field.
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« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2009, 08:39:56 AM »
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Quote from: telyt
There's also handling, ergonomics and usability in the field.

There's also the red dot.

I would be happy to pay $20,000 if I could buy a camera that made me feel as young and enthusiastic about photography as I was when I got my first Leica - though my guess is the feeling would probably not last much longer than until the end of the month when I got my credit card bill.

Who says photography is just about photography?
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« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2009, 08:59:48 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
Tuesday we go to the beach with 2,000 lbs of metal and electricity to work, but it's not really that much fun.

I do own a Leica M 8 and I like it (no pun intended) though I hate the new E.U. rules where you have to wear a sweater on your shoulders when you shoot with it.

In the middle of my lunch break I'd put on my most famous French/Italian accent and become Maxin Pistole and call Samy's, SmashBox, Irene's PRS, Pix, Fotocare, The Piers, Splashlight, MattPhot and PearTree and say this;

Uh, " i have zee news Lecias Esses Twos and my  70 meters of milli lens she no works because the focus is behind the front of the panties, so I needs to rent ones or twos of these lens.  Do you have this in stock?  Can you give me these things I need?

Maxin, uh I mean BC.


Bcooter, you just made my whole fucking week!!  haven't laughed this hard since Sarah Palin saw Kamchatka...

- N.
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lisa_r
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« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2009, 12:19:53 PM »
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re: "lens and sensor integration, optical performance, etc. It is likely the s2 will excel at this, as its Leica's strength for years."

As I pointed out in another thread, this purple fringing from the Leica 70mm lens does not look superior to me. Same issues as any other (and far cheaper) fast lens.

Re:
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e

Now I am quoting myself here:
"two months ago people were looking at the Leica charts and graphs and salivating. Now, as I suspected, these mad money lenses have not, in fact, changed the laws of physics ;-) Good luck telling the difference between these and a $200 Mamiya 80mm lens in print ;-)"
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 12:22:01 PM by lisa_r » Logged
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