Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: How Do I Protect My DVDs?  (Read 6781 times)
JohnKoerner
Guest
« on: November 16, 2009, 12:48:11 PM »
ReplyReply

I know absolutely nothing about videography, but I intend on making a DVD for sale that I don't want people to copy. I am going to buy a cheap DVD recorder, make a DVD on animal husbandry, and then sell that DVD commercially for $49.

The last time I did something like this, I sold my DVDs for quite awhile ... and then I noticed that other people were selling *my* DVD on ebay! I guess they just burned duplicate copies and sold them for the same price I was selling mine, which (needless to say) pi$$ed me off.

Yet I also noticed that today's DVDs can't be copied anymore. For example, if you rent a DVD and try to make a copy of it for yourself, you simply can't. Which brings me to my question:

What are some of the better programs out there that allow you to encrypt a standard DVD so that people CAN'T make copies of it?

Does Adobe "After Effects" allow for such encryption? If so, does it work? Is it any good? How does it compare to other (similar) post-production editing software such as Avid or Boris?

Again, I know nothing about videography at all, but I do want to make a basic informational DVD for sale, and I DON'T want people to be able to just burn a copy of it and sell it for themselves.

Thank you in advance for any help,

Jack

.
Logged
feppe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2909

Oh this shows up in here!


WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 01:03:05 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
I know absolutely nothing about videography, but I intend on making a DVD for sale that I don't want people to copy. I am going to buy a cheap DVD recorder, make a DVD on animal husbandry, and then sell that DVD commercially for $49.

The last time I did something like this, I sold my DVDs for quite awhile ... and then I noticed that other people were selling *my* DVD on ebay! I guess they just burned duplicate copies and sold them for the same price I was selling mine, which (needless to say) pi$$ed me off.

Yet I also noticed that today's DVDs can't be copied anymore. For example, if you rent a DVD and try to make a copy of it for yourself, you simply can't.

No such thing as a copy-protected DVD. There are some copy-prevention measures but they don't work or have been hacked years ago, and are easily broken with basic googling skills.

Besides, copy-protection just pisses off paying customers. I don't buy DRMd media out of principle. That's why I've given and continue to give kudos to Michael, as all LL downloads are DRM-free. I also kept off iTunes Music Store until they got rid of DRM. Any downloaded media with copy protection is a lost sale for me - I don't like being treated like a thief.

From what I've heard eBay has some reporting email you can contact to get your pirated DVDs off their site.
Logged

Chris Sanderson
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1899



« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 01:39:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
What are some of the better programs out there that allow you to encrypt a standard DVD so that people CAN'T make copies of it?
I agree 100% with Harri.

Any encryption or copy-protection will be defeated by someone who really wants to replicate the content.

Save yourself the hassle of trying to deter thieves and try to take the copying of your material as a compliment  
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 01:39:30 PM by ChrisSand » Logged

Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
Eric Myrvaagnes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7898



WWW
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 02:25:57 PM »
ReplyReply

I agree with Harri and Chris.

But if you insist, you could always use a soldering iron to write 'Copyright © by John Koerner' across the recorded side of each DVD. Then it would be very nearly impossible to copy. (Of course, your customers might be a bit annoyed that they couldn't view the DVD either.  )

Eric

Logged

-Eric Myrvaagnes

http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
feppe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2909

Oh this shows up in here!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2009, 03:04:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: ChrisSand
I agree 100% with Harri.

Any encryption or copy-protection will be defeated by someone who really wants to replicate the content.

Save yourself the hassle of trying to deter thieves and try to take the copying of your material as a compliment  

Forgot to give similar kudos to Chris, of course, on selling DRM free content  So kudos!
Logged

JohnKoerner
Guest
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2009, 05:35:35 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: feppe
No such thing as a copy-protected DVD. There are some copy-prevention measures but they don't work or have been hacked years ago, and are easily broken with basic googling skills.

I realize that there is nothing that is "absolutely hack-proof"; but something that will deter the average person.




Quote from: feppe
Besides, copy-protection just pisses off paying customers. I don't buy DRMd media out of principle. That's why I've given and continue to give kudos to Michael, as all LL downloads are DRM-free. I also kept off iTunes Music Store until they got rid of DRM. Any downloaded media with copy protection is a lost sale for me - I don't like being treated like a thief.

Your overly-emotional reaction toward a vendor using encryption software is ludicrous. In fact, if we take that same emotional viewpoint to the extreme, then I suppose you don't take your money to banks either ... because they "treat you like a thief" by having vaults, armed security, and such ... after all, aren't these universal precautions that all banks take saying essentially the same thing? Basically, you're implying that all business owners should just leave their doors wide-open and unlocked too ... just so not to offend "you"?  

Equally-absurd is the idea that, just because very determined people can still break the encryption, that this means "one should not use" encryption. Yeah, well, people can still break into your home, your car, or your office too ... or even a bank vault for that matter ... but that doesn't mean it still isn't prudent to LOCK your home, your car, and your office when your away. Doing this doesn't imply that all your neighbors are "thieves" either; it is simply protecting what's yours ... and the rest of the (sane) world realizes this.

Really, Feppe, I appreciate you sharing your bizarre emotional reactions and such to a simple desire for a vendor to protect his material, but what I was really looking for was the answer to my question, that being the names of some of the better software programs out there that encrypt such protection? If you know of any such programs, I would appreciate the drama being left out of the posts and the information being provided. Can you tell me what, exactly, DRM'd media is and what are some examples of the available programs out there that afford this kind of protection?

BTW, hats off to Michael for not encrypting his media, but I have no desire to emulate Micheal, and the fact of the matter is he does plaster WWW.LUMINOUS-LANDCAPE.COM all over his videos ... which is his right as their creator.




Quote from: feppe
From what I've heard eBay has some reporting email you can contact to get your pirated DVDs off their site.

Yes, but it's a hassle checking Ebay all the time. I would rather just prevent 99% of the would-be piraters by using the software. And I really would like to avoid any more emotional digressions into the absurd, and just have my question answered, if one of you would be kind enough to do so.

Thank you,

Jack

.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 06:24:19 PM by JohnKoerner » Logged
JohnKoerner
Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 05:40:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: ChrisSand
I agree 100% with Harri.
Any encryption or copy-protection will be defeated by someone who really wants to replicate the content.

Thanks, but again I am not deluded into thinking "no one on earth" can possibly get through it, but the vast majority of people WILL be befuddled by such encryption, which is my goal.




Quote from: ChrisSand
Save yourself the hassle of trying to deter thieves and try to take the copying of your material as a compliment  

I would rather save myself the aggravation and just encrypt the DVD, preventing the vast majority of non-computer-savvy people from the ease and convenience of just copying my material on their basic machines.

Jack

.
Logged
feppe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2909

Oh this shows up in here!


WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 07:00:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
I realize that there is nothing that is "absolutely hack-proof"; but something that will deter the average person.
...
Yes, but it's a hassle checking Ebay all the time. I would rather just prevent 99% of the would-be piraters by using the software.

I'll just ignore your ad hominems which was why I used to have you on ignore - should've known better...

To re-answer your question:
The people who put pirated DVDs on eBay are definitely not deterred or even slowed down by any form of DVD encryption or DRM - I'm sure most of them are pros at what they do, and as said, there are numerous freeware drag-and-drop DVD rippers an idiot could use just a google search away. To put it into context, DVD encryption is as trivial to bypass as right-click prevention to deter people saving images on websites.

If you insist on paying for snake-oil, DVDlab seems to be a DVD authoring tool which you can use to burn "proper" DVDs with CSS encryption (which, again, has been broken). A potential deal breaker is that you need to master the DVD (your burner won't work), and it costs fifteen thousand dollars per year to get a working key from the proper DVD authority. Yes, you read that right, $15k per year. In fairness it seems like the program has some other actually useful features.
Logged

JohnKoerner
Guest
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 09:11:12 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: feppe
I'll just ignore your ad hominems which was why I used to have you on ignore - should've known better...

And I'll just try to ignore all your emotional digressions and try to extract the useful info, if any? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?




Quote from: feppe
To re-answer your question:
The people who put pirated DVDs on eBay are definitely not deterred or even slowed down by any form of DVD encryption or DRM - I'm sure most of them are pros at what they do, and as said, there are numerous freeware drag-and-drop DVD rippers an idiot could use just a google search away. To put it into context, DVD encryption is as trivial to bypass as right-click prevention to deter people saving images on websites.

This may come as a surprise to you, but most people are not "pros" at de-encrypting DVD-encrypted software. Like I said, breaking into a car and stealing something is as easy as a smashing a crowbar through a window ... but still, rolling your windows up and locking your car doors still is good practice and still prevents most thefts of your belongings from passers-by.




Quote from: feppe
If you insist on paying for snake-oil, DVDlab seems to be a DVD authoring tool which you can use to burn "proper" DVDs with CSS encryption (which, again, has been broken). A potential deal breaker is that you need to master the DVD (your burner won't work), and it costs fifteen thousand dollars per year to get a working key from the proper DVD authority. Yes, you read that right, $15k per year. In fairness it seems like the program has some other actually useful features.

Thank you for the information. I was reading about the CSS encryption, and figured Adobe After Effects would have something like that, given the price. I would still think even a cheesy encryption would prevent the majority of people from making copies, simply because if they can't press "record" on their DVD player and get the recording, then they won't even bother. Most people aren't all that computer savvy, especially as it relates to photography, videography, and pirating.

Thanks again for the information,

Jack

.
Logged
Jonathan Wienke
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5759



WWW
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2009, 10:17:57 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
I would still think even a cheesy encryption would prevent the majority of people from making copies, simply because if they can't press "record" on their DVD player and get the recording, then they won't even bother. Most people aren't all that computer savvy, especially as it relates to photography, videography, and pirating.

You're deluding yourself. The gaping flaw in ALL copy-protection systems is that at some point, the user has to have access to the unencrypted source material or they can't USE it. DVDs have been around long enough that there are dozens, if not hundreds of utilities out there that do an excellent job of ripping DVDs to hard drive, minus encryption, region coding, Macrovision, etc. After that, it's a simple matter of burning the files to a new DVD. The people who make such utilities are not evil; there are legitimate uses for such programs. I use one to make copies of my kids' movies so that they can write their names in peanut butter fingerprints on the copies instead of the original discs. It's pretty much a point and click process that most third graders are fully capable of figuring out on their own.

OTOH, if you copy-protect your DVDs, you are pretty likely to run into compatibility issues that will render your DVDs unplayable on some players, and it's very likely that the effort you expend will have a negative return. In mathematical terms:

(money and time spent copy-protecting your DVDs) > (revenue gained by decrease in piracy) - (revenue lost due to increased compatibility issues)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 07:05:08 AM by Jonathan Wienke » Logged

feppe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2909

Oh this shows up in here!


WWW
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 03:56:20 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
DVDs have been around long enough that there are dozens, if not hundreds of utilities out there that do an excellent job of ripping DVDs to hard drive, minus encryption, region coding, Macrovision, etc.

The funniest (or saddest) part of that is that all of the DRM crippling make the customer experience worse. Macrovision on VHS tapes diminishes image quality, so does HDCP, region coding limits import/export of cheap DVDs from abroad (although a lot of DVD players are region free these days), and preventing skipping of ads and warnings at the start of DVDs are frustrating (although you can disable this crippling on many DVD players). Finally, all of the above can and do cause all kinds of compatibility headaches.
Logged

Jeremy Payne
Guest
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2009, 07:15:27 AM »
ReplyReply

You mean you can turn DVDs into files and then share them?  No way ...  
Logged
Wally
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 64


« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2009, 12:08:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
This may come as a surprise to you, but most people are not "pros" at de-encrypting DVD-encrypted software. Like I said, breaking into a car and stealing something is as easy as a smashing a crowbar through a window ... but still, rolling your windows up and locking your car doors still is good practice and still prevents most thefts of your belongings from passers-by.

That is because most people do not copy DVDs and sell them on Ebay, but you can bet that the people who do will have no issues at all with copying a DVD regardless of the copy protection.

The other issue is that since copying a DVD is software based you don't need to be a pro since the software does it for you and was written by a pro. If you can put a DVD into the DVD Rom drive in your computer, can read, and can click a mouse you can copy any DVD.
Logged
Jeremy Payne
Guest
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2009, 01:05:32 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
Jack

I'm confused ... you started by expressing your ignorance and asking for advice.

People gave you pretty good advice ... and you start arguing with them.

What's up with that?
Logged
JohnKoerner
Guest
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2009, 05:52:19 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Jeremy Payne
I'm confused ... you started by expressing your ignorance and asking for advice.

You are indeed confused Jeremy.

A quick review of my post should reveal that I did not ask for "advice" at all ... what I asked for was THE NAMES OF SOFTWARE PRODUCTS THAT PROVIDED DVD ENCRYPTION.

That, and only that, is what I asked for. And, yes, I admitted my ignorance---and I got a bunch of wise-ass comments for my trouble. Therefore, your confusion lies in your failing to distinguish between what I actually asked for and the incidental "feelings" and "opinions" I was deluged with about other aspects of the broad subject of DVD encryption that I did NOT ask for.




Quote from: Jeremy Payne
People gave you pretty good advice ... and you start arguing with them.

Wrong.

People (like you) came on here with their snide remarks, their feminine emotions, and their unsolicited "opinions" on other aspects of the DVD-encryption subject ... which is not what I asked for. It amazes me how some people can babble on-and-on and yet never even address the question. I started getting sick of the bullshit and began to pick it apart.

For that matter, and in rebuttal, I am still awaiting one of you geniuses to answer my parallel questions back at you regarding why you lock your doors at night, why you roll-up the windows and lock your cars, etc., etc. ... when it has been "proven" that even a 5 year old can use a Slim-Jim, or a crowbar, and break into your car or house? Why bother then, if you follow your own "logic" on other matters of security? Once again, for the slow, I realize there are probably many ways to get around "anything" a person tries to do to protect his things with security measures, but that wasn't the point. It still doesn't change the fact that trying to protect your things will still deter MOST people. The fact is, most people are not all that computer savvy, and just buy a DVD and play it for the information. And most people, if their DVD player can't record it, then they won't bother to take it any further. Same as if your doors and windows are locked, most people aren't going to break them or try to pick them to get your belongings, even though they can. Basic security measures are just a general deterrent.

Maybe I wouldn't "argue" with some of you if you would either (a) politely answer the question and provide some product names, like I politely asked for, or ( b ) shut TF up and not say a thing. Have you and those like you thought about that? Maybe if you wouldn't come on here trying to be a wise-ass, and actually learned TO READ, and then tried answer THE QUESTION (as opposed to rambling on about everything under the sun except for the subject question) ... and showed some respect ... you might just get treated with respect back. Again, have you ever thought of that?




Quote from: Jeremy Payne
What's up with that?

Back-atcha pal.

What is up with the bullshit? Why can't people either answer the question or shut TF up? Why all of these digressing discussions about everything but the subject?

Of all the verbiage dribbled here, only one person actually provided an answer as to the name of one product that encrypts DVDs.

Now if you want to politely add some of the pitfalls to using these products, that is one thing, and I can appreciate how this can actually be useful information for me to consider. But all of the snide remarks and all of the emotional BS of "treating people like thieves," or the ludicrous position that "because there are ways around it, encryption is useless," is nothing but bullshit ... as my (unanswered) rebuttal parallel questions, regarding other forms of security, demonstrate.

So how about it Jeremy? Please, either politely answer my question, with product names, or kindly shut TF up and go about your business. Like a grown-up.

Thank you,

Jack

.
Logged
JohnKoerner
Guest
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2009, 06:25:27 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
You're deluding yourself. The gaping flaw in ALL copy-protection systems is that at some point, the user has to have access to the unencrypted source material or they can't USE it. DVDs have been around long enough that there are dozens, if not hundreds of utilities out there that do an excellent job of ripping DVDs to hard drive, minus encryption, region coding, Macrovision, etc. After that, it's a simple matter of burning the files to a new DVD. The people who make such utilities are not evil; there are legitimate uses for such programs. I use one to make copies of my kids' movies so that they can write their names in peanut butter fingerprints on the copies instead of the original discs. It's pretty much a point and click process that most third graders are fully capable of figuring out on their own.
OTOH, if you copy-protect your DVDs, you are pretty likely to run into compatibility issues that will render your DVDs unplayable on some players, and it's very likely that the effort you expend will have a negative return. In mathematical terms:
(money and time spent copy-protecting your DVDs) > (revenue gained by decrease in piracy) - (revenue lost due to increased compatibility issues)


I appreciate the supplemental information, and I undertstand the logic behind what you're saying, and why (ultimately) any such program can be circumvented.

Still, there must be something to DVD encryption as a general deterrant, given the fact every single DVD movie you buy nowadays is encrypted. Not saying, some guru can't get passed it, or that there isn't software available that can't get passed it, but the fact remains almost all of these DVDs have such encryption.

That being said, what I was really looking for is the name of such software programs available, that might deter the general consumer.

Any information would be appreciated,

Jack

.
Logged
feppe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2909

Oh this shows up in here!


WWW
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2009, 06:46:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
People (like you) came on here with their snide remarks, their feminine emotions, and their unsolicited "opinions" on other aspects of the DVD-encryption subject ... which is not what I asked for. It amazes me how some people can babble on-and-on and yet never even address the question. I started getting sick of the bullshit and began to pick it apart.

The snideness you saw in the original comments is purely your own projection.

This is a discussion forum, and we provided background information as part of a discussion. If all you wanted was a name of a product, there's a much better place to ask than here, and you don't have to worry about it disagreeing with you, or resulting in discourse.

Quote from: JohnKoerner
Still, there must be something to DVD encryption as a general deterrant, given the fact every single DVD movie you buy nowadays is encrypted. Not saying, some guru can't get passed it, or that there isn't software available that can't get passed it, but the fact remains almost all of these DVDs have such encryption.

As I and other have tried to point out, the deterrant is non-existent. Those who want to copy a DVD (for legal or illegal use) will be able to do so regardless of encryption. Those who don't want to copy either won't notice, or will be annoyed (if there's a region code which won't work on their player, for example). The only real impact DVD encryption has is when a pirate is taken to court, she has broken DMCA by circumventing the copy prevention and thus committed a crime without even having to sell or distribute the DVD - but this applies to US only and IANAL.

Again, you don't need a guru, one can download a drag-and-drop program a monkey could use.

We were trying to be helpful in pointing out that DVD encryption is pure snake oil, and you're wasting time and money even considering it. Don't worry, I'll put you back on ignore so you won't have to endure me trying to help you anymore.
Logged

PeterAit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1867



WWW
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2009, 08:23:53 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JohnKoerner
I realize that there is nothing that is "absolutely hack-proof"; but something that will deter the average person.

A reasonable request, but it would not be "the average person" who is going to be copying your DVDs and selling them.
Logged

Peter
"Photographic technique is a means to an end, never the end itself."
View my photos at http://www.peteraitken.com
Jeremy Payne
Guest
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2009, 09:51:41 PM »
ReplyReply

I recommend a puppy ... might make you feel better ...


Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad