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Author Topic: If all digital cams died, would you continue with film?  (Read 10871 times)
evgeny
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« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2009, 06:09:58 AM »
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Digital will die after film dies. The future will not be compatible with the past.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 06:10:49 AM by evgeny » Logged
JoeKitchen
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« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2009, 06:58:20 AM »
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Quote from: Professional
Also as long it is about film here, can some people recommend me about film to use with those cameras?

For now i have the following to try sooner or later i hope:

Fuji Velvia 50 & 100
Fuji Neaopan 100
Fuji Pro 160S  [220 only]
Kodak T-max 320
Kodak T-max 100
Ilford Delta 3200
Ilford PANF Plus 50
Kodak Porta 160 and 400 NC
Kodak Ektar 100
Rollei Retro 100

Anything else i should look at or any recommendations?


I had a photo teacher who once told that you really do not know your film until you shoot enough to make a stack of film 1 foot think.  I like Tri-X as opposed to T-Max, but if you do not like the grain, are not using large format and want great detail, T-Max is the way to go.  Tri-X is so versatile though, if you mess up in the exposure and did not realize until you develop, you can still get something out of Tri-X, fat chance doing that with T-Max.  Also Velvia 50 was my favorite color film, nice and warm, whereas the Kodak colors are a little cool.  Also Fuji is the only company that is committed to continue to make film (I heard that 3 years ago and am sure if that is still true).  Aside from the bias on the films I have, you should find a film or two you like and learn that film; don't swap and switch or you will never learn any film well.
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Professional
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« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2009, 07:30:42 AM »
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Quote from: JoeKitchen
I had a photo teacher who once told that you really do not know your film until you shoot enough to make a stack of film 1 foot think.  I like Tri-X as opposed to T-Max, but if you do not like the grain, are not using large format and want great detail, T-Max is the way to go.  Tri-X is so versatile though, if you mess up in the exposure and did not realize until you develop, you can still get something out of Tri-X, fat chance doing that with T-Max.  Also Velvia 50 was my favorite color film, nice and warm, whereas the Kodak colors are a little cool.  Also Fuji is the only company that is committed to continue to make film (I heard that 3 years ago and am sure if that is still true).  Aside from the bias on the films I have, you should find a film or two you like and learn that film; don't swap and switch or you will never learn any film well.

Thank you for that advice!

In all cases i bought all those film from USA because i was there, i can't find them in my country, so i can keep them for about 1-2 years before they expire, and i will shoot taking my time, no rush, also i have experience with exposure outdoors, but in all cases i have a light meter that will help me for sure, so don't worry, and swapping film is not a bad idea, those film were used by many photographers in the past and even present, each has its own effect and look, i like grain, that is way i bought 400 and 3200, i was going to buy ASA 800 but not rush again, i will use medium format for a while now, later i can decide if i want a large format, but now i am worry about how to develop those films after taking shots, labs here are awful and couldn't help much, scanner is an option but i have to decide on one [there are many choices and many recommend something].

I feel from your post that i may get lost with film and go nowhere with those films because i don't have a preference or favorite one? I need to use them first to see which one is my favorite.
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Rob C
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2009, 08:56:40 AM »
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Quote from: Professional
Thank you for that advice!

In all cases i bought all those film from USA because i was there, i can't find them in my country, so i can keep them for about 1-2 years before they expire, and i will shoot taking my time, no rush, also i have experience with exposure outdoors, but in all cases i have a light meter that will help me for sure, so don't worry, and swapping film is not a bad idea, those film were used by many photographers in the past and even present, each has its own effect and look, i like grain, that is way i bought 400 and 3200, i was going to buy ASA 800 but not rush again, i will use medium format for a while now, later i can decide if i want a large format, but now i am worry about how to develop those films after taking shots, labs here are awful and couldn't help much, scanner is an option but i have to decide on one [there are many choices and many recommend something].

I feel from your post that i may get lost with film and go nowhere with those films because i don't have a preference or favorite one? I need to use them first to see which one is my favorite.





Unless I get accused of 'superiority' attitude probems again - not here but in another thread - here is my advice:

a.  if you keep your film in a freezer and buy it fresh from a properly careful dealership, forget about expiry dates - the film will outlive you;

b.  do [not] mess about with a hundred different flms; pick on one - I would suggest TXP if 120 format or HP4 or FP4 Plus (if still available) for 135 format. I would process it in D76 diluted 1+1 with water and I would suggest you stay with that single developer until you are more advanced in the game. The last thing you want to do is to increase the variables - it will only confuse;

c.  I wouldn't even touch colour film until I thought I was reasonably sure of myself in black and white. Why? Because with b/w it is easy enough to learn from your mistakes, which you will make as do we all, whereas if using colour neg it is difficult to know just how accurate you have been since the negatives require a pretty sophisticated eye to give you good information. Transparency film is rather limited in the range of contrast that it can handle and you could spend a lot of time and money before realising where you have gone wrong. It is one thing to be an expert and be able to read a badly exposed transparency but it can be confusing, if you do not have that experience, to know just why something isn't right - there is a difference between something being badly exposed and something being as well exposed as it can be, but the brightness range simply being too great for the film. In that case you will never get it 'right' without additional lighting or the sacrifice of one end of the scale or the other. Black and white film is limited too, but not nearly as badly.

But mainly, once you select a film, expose a lot of it and keep notes of what you have done!

Rob C
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2009, 09:20:22 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Unless I get accused of 'superiority' attitude probems again - not here but in another thread - here is my advice:

a.  if you keep your film in a freezer and buy it fresh from a properly careful dealership, forget about expiry dates - the film will outlive you;

b.  do [not] mess about with a hundred different flms; pick on one - I would suggest TXP if 120 format or HP4 or FP4 Plus (if still available) for 135 format. I would process it in D76 diluted 1+1 with water and I would suggest you stay with that single developer until you are more advanced in the game. The last thing you want to do is to increase the variables - it will only confuse;

c.  I wouldn't even touch colour film until I thought I was reasonably sure of myself in black and white. Why? Because with b/w it is easy enough to learn from your mistakes, which you will make as do we all, whereas if using colour neg it is difficult to know just how accurate you have been since the negatives require a pretty sophisticated eye to give you good information. Transparency film is rather limited in the range of contrast that it can handle and you could spend a lot of time and money before realising where you have gone wrong. It is one thing to be an expert and be able to read a badly exposed transparency but it can be confusing, if you do not have that experience, to know just why something isn't right - there is a difference between something being badly exposed and something being as well exposed as it can be, but the brightness range simply being too great for the film. In that case you will never get it 'right' without additional lighting or the sacrifice of one end of the scale or the other. Black and white film is limited too, but not nearly as badly.

But mainly, once you select a film, expose a lot of it and keep notes of what you have done!

Rob C

Much as I hate to have to agree with a cantankerous old coot with a "superiority" attitude like Rob C, I will have to admit that his advice is absolutely on target on all points. Do what he says!


Eric (another cantankerous old coot with a "superiority" attitude, but much more modest than Rob C)     

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Harold Clark
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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2009, 09:44:54 AM »
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Quote from: DanielStone
just a topic I thought of recently...


If for some reason, all digital cameras, including scan backs, point and shoots, dslr's, m/f backs, etc were to die and not turn on with no chance of repair, and new stock didn't work either,

would you continue with photography, but ONLY with film?



would YOU???

I'm not looking to argue here,

just interested in finding out if the gear actually drives people to take photographs, or the pure love of photography would cause you to turn back to the 'old medium'.

-Dan

For over 25 years I used film, so it is an old friend. Now, if cars disappeared, would I get horse.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2009, 10:07:45 AM »
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I never imagined to hear such a question. Either you're too young or you just enjoy "philosophying".
Eduardo
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Hywel
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« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2009, 10:17:16 AM »
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I'd still shoot, but it would do all manner of mischief to my bottom line.

I went digital early, with Canon's first dSLR (D30, which I still have around here somewhere- built like a tank).

I did that after an early shooting trip to Los Angeles where the film/processing/scanning costs were the single largest cost of the trip- more than the flights, hotels, locations and model fees combined, and more than enough that if I'd bought the D30 before rather than after the trip, it would have paid for itself.

I never shot another roll of film for my business. I did shoot some film for a while for fun, principally on my Mamiya 7. But I was not set up to do anything with the shots when I'd taken them- by then everything in my workflow was digital.

If film was the only option, my poor profit margin would not thank me!  

So no, mark me down as a digital purist. I certainly do not miss the week's anxious wait for the slides to come back from the lab, to find out if that light that seemed to be misfiring towards the end of the shoot would result in 36 frames of screwup. Nothing beats being able to see the actual captured image just after you've shot it, the immediacy of having the results right there in digital form without scanning, ready to do whatever you need to do to it.

Cheers, Hywel.

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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2009, 11:44:29 AM »
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I would happily go back to film. The market for film would suddenly improve, so in a short while we would have as much variety in film products available as before the Digital age.

And then, some day soon after, somebody would invent a new way to build a digital camera, and the cycle would repeat again.   

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KLaban
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« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2009, 12:02:50 PM »
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If all digital cams died, would you continue with film?

If you'd asked me a few years ago I'd have said yes. Now I'd rather daub my images onto cave walls than use film.
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DanielStone
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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2009, 12:04:50 PM »
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Quote from: uaiomex
I never imagined to hear such a question. Either you're too young or you just enjoy "philosophying".
Eduardo



Yes, I'm the ripe old age of 21  

But its great to see that so many people here are still committed to the "photography" rather than just equipment. Funny though how none of the people who sell digi backs have chimed in yet  .

just might tell you something  

I started shooting with a small digi cam a few years back, just as a hobby. Was gifted a Pentax K1000 with a 50mm lens, was sitting in a family friends' yard for a few years. Meter still works, no damage whatsoever! But after meeting a good friend of mine, who is 3x my age, he introduced me to a Mamiya RB67. When I looked at my first contact sheet from the roll he and I put through that camera, I was hooked. Within 6 months, the digicam had nothing but dust on it due to no use. And a RB67 was in my hands almost daily. Even when I couldn't afford to put film in the camera, I'd be in the backyard or walking around, just framing photographs, and pretending I was shooting  .

Things are better now.... I can afford film, and I'm in school as a photo major. I've since traded the RB for an RZ(can't get the 6x7 out of my mind) and married it with a H2 system(just the 80mm right now, all I can afford).

Running Portra 160/400VC and 800 through them at the rate of 3-5 rolls of 220 a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. Occasionally chrome(well, 10x more chrome now than 6 months ago) for shooting architecture.

Processing it all myself, making my own proofsheets, and scanning. Therefore, I get the most "control" over the process, rather than forking out cash, AND control, to a lab. There are some great labs here in LA, but they're too expensive for my student budget right now.

so: YOUNG: yes,   Immature: Don't want to think so  ,  Like philosophizing: Heck no!!!!

-Dan

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DanielStone
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« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2009, 12:05:56 PM »
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Quote from: EricM
I would happily go back to film. The market for film would suddenly improve, so in a short while we would have as much variety in film products available as before the Digital age.

And then, some day soon after, somebody would invent a new way to build a digital camera, and the cycle would repeat again. 


Agree totally

Just wish it would happen to a small degree in real life

-Dan
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yaya
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« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2009, 12:06:22 PM »
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Quote from: DanielStone
just a topic I thought of recently...


If for some reason, all digital cameras, including scan backs, point and shoots, dslr's, m/f backs, etc were to die and not turn on with no chance of repair, and new stock didn't work either,

would you continue with photography, but ONLY with film?



would YOU???

I'm not looking to argue here,

just interested in finding out if the gear actually drives people to take photographs, or the pure love of photography would cause you to turn back to the 'old medium'.

-Dan

Well hopefully some mobile phones with cameras or some video cameras will still work, so your kids can document the chaos...


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sojournerphoto
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« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2009, 12:17:16 PM »
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Quote from: DanielStone
just a topic I thought of recently...


If for some reason, all digital cameras, including scan backs, point and shoots, dslr's, m/f backs, etc were to die and not turn on with no chance of repair, and new stock didn't work either,

would you continue with photography, but ONLY with film?



would YOU???

I'm not looking to argue here,

just interested in finding out if the gear actually drives people to take photographs, or the pure love of photography would cause you to turn back to the 'old medium'.

-Dan



I still shoot a lot of 35mm film in my Zeiss Ikons. Would I miss the 1Ds3 and digicam - sometimes, but of course I'd keep taking photographs and making pictures. In some ways it would be better - I'd probably make more money at it and wouldn't have to deal with people whjo think a disk full of jogs a photographer makes:)

Rob's advice, and Eric's support, above is spot on. To start out, choose one of Fuji Acros, FP4+, HP5+, Tri X and develop in one developer (I like Xtol, but D76 is fine), take pictures, make some prints and look at them. Don't change anything for a while at least. Starting out you might even try the one camera and one lens approach!!

Can you imagine that in this world of disposable (but very expensive) technology.

Mike
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BlasR
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« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2009, 12:21:46 PM »
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My father died 1971, what about if he come back to life,

what can I say?  I'm sorry it's been so long.

Or say ya, another GOD he come from the dead
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DanielStone
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« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2009, 12:26:27 PM »
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Quote from: sojournerphoto
Rob's advice, and Eric's support, above is spot on. To start out, choose one of Fuji Acros, FP4+, HP5+, Tri X and develop in one developer (I like Xtol, but D76 is fine), take pictures, make some prints and look at them. Don't change anything for a while at least. Starting out you might even try the one camera and one lens approach!!

Can you imagine that in this world of disposable (but very expensive) technology.

Mike

great to hear mike! I like the Acros in D76 1:1. Develop in in a JOBO, same drums/processor for E6/C41 as well.

I've been using that combo for a while now, and it gives me nice,scannable results, with plenty of shadow and highlight detail.

Looking at investing in LEE filter system sometime soon, espcially in the ND-grads. They're pretty much needed for shooting chromes in bright sunlight IMO. I've borrowed my friends grads b4, and they were a treat to use! Let me shoot in 1pm sun with no problems, just having to over-expose and under develop to get enough detail in the shadows. Using some curves as well to get everything nice in PS.

tried the 1 camera/1 lens approach. Sadly didn't work for me. Would be nice if it did, less kit to carry around .

-Dan

EDIT: Acros for 120, TMAX 100 for 4x5. Sometimes TMAX for 120 when my acros runs out. Go through a good bit of it to be honest!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 12:27:44 PM by DanielStone » Logged
Luis Argerich
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« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2009, 02:12:54 PM »
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I'm not sure but if Ketchup ceased to exist I'd use Mustard.

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david o
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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2009, 02:20:43 PM »
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Quote from: luigis
I'm not sure but if Ketchup ceased to exist I'd use Mustard.

yes... and I do... with Holga... and soon a Diana +... I'm improving my gear to the next level with  Portra 400 VC and Tri-X

Getting ready for 2012 12
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erick.boileau
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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2009, 02:40:13 PM »
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nope ! I shall  start drawing again
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Professional
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2009, 03:23:13 PM »
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WE will see, just waiting the time to use it for first time, the weather becoming fine these days, and when i will get a budget i will buy a lens for the camera and i will start to shoot.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 04:40:08 PM by Professional » Logged
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