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Author Topic: MF versus DSLR. Ending the argument.  (Read 11982 times)
David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2009, 01:09:40 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
On either that show, or one of the ones following it, on Photo Night, the segment shows Brigitte LaCombe shooting a portrait in the studio with a handheld H camera. David Grover should watch that segment, in order to see, in a very graphic way, why the H camera needs a Vertical Grip. The segment shows her holding the H, with some giant lens on it, and she's shooting a vertical, but she's holding the camera like she's shooting a horizontal, but she's literally bending over sideways, with her weight to the extreme left, trying to lay her body over to get the H body into a vertical orientation. I literally burst out laughing when I saw the segment. I searched around, at that very moment, for Grover's home phone number, to try to get him to turn on the TV, but then realized that he lives in hiding.

Ok my number is...

+44 7980 .....

Oh, hand on a sec.  Not a good idea.  ;-)

Plus I would have been asleep as, crazy as it may seem, I do not live in the US.

Anyway, would be nice to know if it is possible, as Frank says, for us lowly Europeans to download it?

There was a poll over on hasselbladdigitalforum.com and it wasn't a white wash for the vertical grip.

D

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David Grover
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Nick-T
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« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2009, 01:16:44 PM »
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Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
There was a poll over on hasselbladdigitalforum.com and it wasn't a white wash for the vertical grip.

D

 We did indeed run a poll to try and establish what demand there was for a vertical grip. 50% of respondents were prepared to pay up to $500 and another 25% or so up to $1000.

I don't think Hasselblad are going to invest in the tooling and R&D for a vertical grip to sell at $1000. Getting the shutter release and aperture dial working on a vertical grip is a non trivial exercise, the fact that Mr Tucker wants it doesn't make it easy to do sadly.

Nick-T
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Alex MacPherson
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« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2009, 01:19:51 PM »
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Quote from: Nick-T
We did indeed run a poll to try and establish what demand there was for a vertical grip. 50% of respondents were prepared to pay up to $500 and another 25% or so up to $1000.

I don't think Hasselblad are going to invest in the tooling and R&D for a vertical grip to sell at $1000. Getting the shutter release and aperture dial working on a vertical grip is a non trivial exercise, the fact that Mr Tucker wants it doesn't make it easy to do sadly.

Nick-T

Personally, a rotating back/sensor would make more sense than a vertical grip on the Hasselblad.
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Alex MacPherson

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gwhitf
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« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2009, 01:22:40 PM »
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David,

I don't know how to get it to you. See if your cable service offers Ovation, or maybe it's on zulu or whatever it's called. If not, I can easily pick up my 5D2 and play the video on my tv and take a picture of the screen, as she bends over sideways, and throws out her back.

Go ahead and slap some popcorn in the microwave, grab the remote control, and get ready. You're gonna love this.
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Nick-T
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« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2009, 01:27:16 PM »
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Quote from: Dolce Moda Photography
Personally, a rotating back/sensor would make more sense than a vertical grip on the Hasselblad.

Alex
I don't see how that would work within a 645 gate?
Nick-T
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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2009, 01:34:19 PM »
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Quote from: Dolce Moda Photography
Personally, a rotating back/sensor would make more sense than a vertical grip on the Hasselblad.

Sorry, but a rotating back on a 645 Camera doesnīt make sense as the sensor would be larger than the camera format. Coming from the RZ I miss that option though.
So please make that vertical grip, and donīt forget it should work with the older bodies and none HB-Backs as well, if you donīt want to be flamed again.

Cheers, Ulf
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uaiomex
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« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2009, 03:28:16 PM »
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I think that the Hasselblad V system remains unbeatable, that is, until Canikon chimes in.
Eduardo

Quote from: UlfKrentz
Sorry, but a rotating back on a 645 Camera doesnīt make sense as the sensor would be larger than the camera format. Coming from the RZ I miss that option though.
So please make that vertical grip, and donīt forget it should work with the older bodies and none HB-Backs as well, if you donīt want to be flamed again.

Cheers, Ulf
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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2009, 04:53:27 PM »
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Quote from: uaiomex
I think that the Hasselblad V system remains unbeatable, that is, until Canikon chimes in.
Eduardo

Hi Eduardo,

we used the V-System and changed to the RZ many years ago. We suddenly had a 6x7cm frame and to be honest, from the V-Blads we almost never used more than 4.5x6cm finally - but that was on film that days. Havenīt missed the Blads one second. Today we are with Hasselblad again, use the H System, because of leaf-shutter, size, autofocus and overall speed. Itīs not too bad but still heavy and definitly missing the vertical grip. But Iīm sure the vertical grip will only work with Hasselblad digital backs because of strange integration issues (politics).
We didnīt find a serious way to use "Canikon" in our work. We simply love the way to work with MFDB, on MF-cameras and on view cameras.

Cheers, Ulf
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gwhitf
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« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2009, 05:35:12 PM »
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Quote from: Nick-T
I don't think Hasselblad are going to invest in the tooling and R&D for a vertical grip to sell at $1000. Getting the shutter release and aperture dial working on a vertical grip is a non trivial exercise, the fact that Mr Tucker wants it doesn't make it easy to do sadly.
Nick-T

Nick, I think he realized that there'd never be a Vertical Grip brought to market. Not that David didn't give it his best shot.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=39486




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uaiomex
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« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2009, 11:12:55 PM »
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Hi Ulf:
What I meant is that if Nikon or especially Canon would decide to go into MF, either one or both would corner this segment in no time. The RZ is without doubt a dream system for studio work but as long as sensors remain ultra expensive we won't see sensors bigger than 6X6. In the meantime (possibly 7-10 more years?), Hasselblad V is perfect for slow pace studio work, landscape and location portraiture. I don't own a digiback yet, so, for the time being I'm happily shooting out of a humble 5DMk2.


Quote from: UlfKrentz
Hi Eduardo,

we used the V-System and changed to the RZ many years ago. We suddenly had a 6x7cm frame and to be honest, from the V-Blads we almost never used more than 4.5x6cm finally - but that was on film that days. Havenīt missed the Blads one second. Today we are with Hasselblad again, use the H System, because of leaf-shutter, size, autofocus and overall speed. Itīs not too bad but still heavy and definitly missing the vertical grip. But Iīm sure the vertical grip will only work with Hasselblad digital backs because of strange integration issues (politics).
We didnīt find a serious way to use "Canikon" in our work. We simply love the way to work with MFDB, on MF-cameras and on view cameras.

Cheers, Ulf
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 11:19:23 PM by uaiomex » Logged
David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2009, 03:05:48 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Nick, I think he realized that there'd never be a Vertical Grip brought to market. Not that David didn't give it his best shot.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=39486

Ill line you up for an H4D50 then.
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David Grover
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HarryHoffman
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« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2009, 11:33:19 PM »
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Heres a quickie(15 minute)  side by side P21+(18mp DF) + D3X(24mp FF)
Fairly low light, just florescent under cabinet lights. Not trying to get fancy.

Tried to keep the perspective as close as possible. Both on F8 Aperture priority (should have done full manual)
The D3X was in raw and the P21+ was output in Tiff.
I only have the camera for a couple days and don't have a manual for the P21+
Used minor USM on all files and auto tone in LR to start

The Dx3 Is pretty much spot on WB and the P21 had to tweak it a bit
D3X for colors is very close to the real thing if not perfect
P21+ Had to really pump it up and there is a green cast still, but not showing the true vivid green the D3X does

Take it for whats it's worth, if it's worth anything.
Either way I have the D3x as my main camera and am hopefully going to get a P40+ in a few days


D3X
[attachment=18278:House_f8..._1_of_1_.jpg]

P21+
[attachment=18279:P21_house.JPG]

D3X
[attachment=18280:house_f8..._1_of_1_.jpg]

P21+
[attachment=18281:house_f8..._1_of_1_.jpg]
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 12:30:01 AM by HarryHoffman » Logged

EricWHiss
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« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2009, 11:37:55 PM »
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<deleted>  I'm going to make a new years resolution to avoid all these topics for a whole year, maybe longer.




Quote from: HarryHoffman
Heres a quickie(15 minute)  side by side P21+(18mp DF) + D3X(24mp FF)

Tried to keep the perspective as close as possible. Both on F8 Aperture priority (should have done full manual)
The D3X was in raw and the P21+ was output in Tiff.
I only have the camera for a couple days and don't have a manual for the P21+
Used minor USM on all files and auto tone in LR to start

The Dx3 Is pretty much spot on WB and the P21 had to tweak it a bit
D3X for colors is very close to the real thing if not perfect
P21+ Had to really pump it up and there is a green cast still, but not showing the true vivid green the D3X does

Take it for whats it's worth, if it's worth anything.
Either way I have the D3x as my main camera and am hopefully going to get a P40+ in a few days


D3X
[attachment=18278:House_f8..._1_of_1_.jpg]

P21+
[attachment=18279:P21_house.JPG]

D3X
[attachment=18280:house_f8..._1_of_1_.jpg]

P21+
[attachment=18281:house_f8..._1_of_1_.jpg]
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 11:41:50 PM by EricWHiss » Logged

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HarryHoffman
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« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2009, 10:46:26 AM »
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With taking into account not setting the white balance on the P21 and the basically crappy full size images, which was not the purpose....
The closeups look surprisingly similar in detail, but in different ways.
The D3X has 30% more pixels and the P21+ more sensor area.

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CBarrett
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« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2009, 11:02:47 AM »
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What were the lenses?  There's a huge difference in depth of field.  Nice hilight detail in the P21+.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2009, 11:08:35 AM »
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Despite that, the P21 is definitively sharper.

Quote from: HarryHoffman
With taking into account not setting the white balance on the P21 and the basically crappy full size images, which was not the purpose....
The closeups look surprisingly similar in detail, but in different ways.
The D3X has 30% more pixels and the P21+ more sensor area.
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HarryHoffman
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« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2009, 12:35:01 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
What were the lenses?  There's a huge difference in depth of field.  Nice hilight detail in the P21+.

D3X had the 24-70
P21+ 80mm

Tried to keep the image width close, but not being used to the veiwfinder on the P21 it was a little off. Same tripod mounting for both. The height of the D3X from base to lens centerline is a little taller also
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 12:37:34 PM by HarryHoffman » Logged

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