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Author Topic: Camera Wars  (Read 13665 times)
CBarrett
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« on: November 27, 2009, 07:51:41 PM »
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Well, we all seem to agree that different formats and brands all have their negative and positive aspects and as much as I really enjoy working with view cameras, I love pretty much all imaging devices.  I'm a big gear junkie, I admit it.  I think most photographers are...

I've had special relationships with many cameras through the years... here are a few:
  • Konica T4  My Sister gave me this when I was 18... begin the obsession.
  • Hasselblad 500 CM  Really something magical about shooting this camera... every time.  
  • Nikon F3  My tank workhorse for the majority of my educational years.
  • Leica CL  Shot all my street work with this.  I like the smaller size versus the M's.
  • Contax G2  Had two with a few lenses.  Really beautiful cameras, but never shot anything memorable with them.  Focus sucked.
  • Arca Swiss F Line 4x5  90% of my Career work was shot with this thing.
  • Arca Swiss F Metric 6x9  My first digital view camera, had to leave that at HB : (
  • Arca Swiss F Line 6x9  Bought this 15 year old from a friend when I quit HB.  Got me going.
  • Arca Swiss M Line 2 6x9  Utterly in love with this thing.
  • Nikon D3  My very first dslr... really like this camera too!
  • Phase One 645 AF  Came with my P65+....is meh...anxiously awaiting DF to swap out.  D lenses are really quite good!

    What about you guys?
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SecondFocus
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2009, 08:00:37 PM »
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When I think about what I 'want' to shoot it is on film. Tri-X pushed 2 stops on my Mamiya 645AFDII, And I am now going for another Canon 1V.
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Ian L. Sitren
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 08:17:29 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
Well, we all seem to agree that different formats and brands all have their negative and positive aspects and as much as I really enjoy working with view cameras, I love pretty much all imaging devices.  I'm a big gear junkie, I admit it.  I think most photographers are...

I've had special relationships with many cameras through the years... here are a few:
  • Konica T4  My Sister gave me this when I was 18... begin the obsession.
  • Hasselblad 500 CM  Really something magical about shooting this camera... every time.  
  • Nikon F3  My tank workhorse for the majority of my educational years.
  • Leica CL  Shot all my street work with this.  I like the smaller size versus the M's.
  • Contax G2  Had two with a few lenses.  Really beautiful cameras, but never shot anything memorable with them.  Focus sucked.
  • Arca Swiss F Line 4x5  90% of my Career work was shot with this thing.
  • Arca Swiss F Metric 6x9  My first digital view camera, had to leave that at HB : (
  • Arca Swiss F Line 6x9  Bought this 15 year old from a friend when I quit HB.  Got me going.
  • Arca Swiss M Line 2 6x9  Utterly in love with this thing.
  • Nikon D3  My very first dslr... really like this camera too!
  • Phase One 645 AF  Came with my P65+....is meh...anxiously awaiting DF to swap out.  D lenses are really quite good!

    What about you guys?

When it comes to "special relationships" and being "in love," I have found women to be much superior to cameras   .
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Peter
"Photographic technique is a means to an end, never the end itself."
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gwhitf
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 08:25:08 PM »
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For me, not talking about commerce here, but moreso just personal expression, I'd love to see some Specs on some of these modern digital cameras that you never see. When I think about these modern cameras (and lenses) compared to film cameras (and lenses), the new ones just fall flat to me. Again, personal expression not commerce. For commerce, give me a digital camera any day.

Along with the endless list of Bragging Rights Specs for these modern digitals, such as Resolution, and Pixel Size, and Megabytes, and Screen Rez, I'd also like to see these bulleted items followed by a colon:

* Spirit: ______
* Atmosphere: ______
* Ability to successfully flare in backlight: ______
* Mojo: ______
* Softness of Contrast: ______
* Feeling: ______
* Ability to mimic the feel of 665 scanned neg: ______
* Ability to mimic the feel of Type 55: ______
* Ability to mimic the feel of Polaroid 669 on a cold day when you held it under your armpit too long: ______
* Ability to maybe have something accidental happen that's kinda cool looking: ______

I'm joking but not really. Go back and compare your early Hasselblad stuff, or whatever you shot, even plastic cameras or whatnot, and then put the Spirit or Feeling of those files next to the absolute soulless clinical perfection of these modern digitals. I guess I'm just going thru a phase (not!), but right now, the settings on my 5D2's are: Contrast: 1; Saturation: 1; Hue: 6; Sharpness: 0. Trying anything under the sun to get it to shoot not like a digital camera. In addition I'm rigging up 4" hard gel filters taped to a LeeProShade, and I'm rubbing vaseline on the filters in the corners. Even though I'm shooting digital, I'm trying to get something/anything organic going on in that file, when I look at it on the LCD. I love the thought of coming home, knowing that whatever I did to that file can't be undone in Post. And getting the emphasis away from "Just put your thumbprint on it only in post". I want that first RAW file to come up in DPP, and I want to say, "Wow, that's cool". Right then; not having to wait to "save it in Photoshop".

Also, to really get your head spinning, how about these stunning artists who don't even use a camera at all: Christopher Bucklow and Adam Fuss.

http://www.artnet.com/artist/3269/christopher-bucklow.html

http://www.artknowledgenews.com/Xavier_Hufkens.html
« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 09:09:18 PM by gwhitf » Logged
James R Russell
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 03:03:07 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
For me, not talking about commerce here, but moreso just personal expression,........snip.................


* Ability to successfully flare in backlight: ______

for me, the one ground breaking camera, film or digital was the original 1ds.



It opened a new world as it looked like film, rarely moired, never broke and though by today's standards it was slow and had a tiny lcd, it allowed me to do more than I've ever been able to do, especially in commerce because it let me get the base idea in the can, know it's right and get on with experimenting.

I told our studio manager then and I believe it today that I should have bought 6 of those cameras, put 4 in a safety deposit box and never buy another camera.  I would have saved myself $120,000 and about a billion hours or learning curve.

In fact I use to laugh at how easy the 1ds was for first level post production.  I had the camera zoned out for the look I wanted, I'd just take the in camera jpegs and drop them into a web gallery and usually upload at a restaurant, coffee house or hotel patio while I enjoyed life, but being a masochist photographer I wanted more and dived deep into everything, including processing out jpegs until 3am.

Silly me.

I think it's easy to be nostalgic over film and some things I miss, like talking to the photographers at the labs, but some of the things I really don't miss, like seeing snips pulled 2/3's of a stop rather than pushed.  

The only thing I really miss about film is the ability to shoot into the sun and get that soft pretty flare around a subject. Now that's something that almost always has to be modified in post production.  I miss that and like gwtif says the happy little surprises, but not the unhappy big surprises.

Now I think I've come full circle in the digital world shoot 90% of my still images  with the 1ds3's and the only camera that would make me open my wallet is this.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/    though I haven't bought it yet, or used it yet, but it looks intriguing, with multiple crops, 12 film settings, takes almost any lens and shoots video.

Actually maybe not (here I go again), as I did love the Aptus 22 with that Boris tilt shift.     I didn't like the issues of the early Aptus (in all fairness Leaf eventually worked most of those out),  but the look of the file was really nice with that funky lens.



JR
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 04:29:32 AM by James R Russell » Logged

cyberean
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 03:35:57 PM »
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Quote from: PeterAit
When it comes to "special relationships" and being "in love," I have found women to be much superior to cameras   .
no doubt ...
but the price of that hobby and/or profession is just staggering.
and you best choose "right" the first time around, when picking
a brand.  as the them upgrade/trade-in costs will send you to
the poor house.

ok ... time to go and defrost some film


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check out the size of my sensor ...
cyberean
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 03:43:09 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Trying anything under the sun to get it to shoot not like a digital camera.
i assure you ... you ain't the only one


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check out the size of my sensor ...
arashm
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 08:50:20 PM »
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JR

I wrote this in another forum a few hours ago....

"Camera's are funny things
This last week I shot two jobs one with a H3d2-39 and the other the H3d2-31 plus the usual 5D2 stuff, yet the camera I just can't put down is the GF-1.... go figure"

Grab one, they are tons of fun, plus think of it this way; the whole thing is the price of a H battery and a charger
am
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2009, 11:16:41 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
What about you guys?

Cameras I took good images with include:

- Praktika [still own]
- Nikon f601m
- Nikon F100 [still own]
- Nikon D100
- Kodal SLR/n
- Hasselblad H1
- Nikon D2x
- Ebony 45SU [still own]
- Mamiya ZD
- Nikon D3
- Nikon D3x [still own]

Out of those, the 3 cameras that frustrated me most are the H1, SLRn and ZD...  I guess that I prefer cameras that work the way they are supposed to.

The one I like best is the Ebony 45SU, but it is also the one I use least.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 11:53:52 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
for me, the one ground breaking camera, film or digital was the original 1ds.


+1.  

I was pretty burned out doing photography, and when I bought that 1Ds, I felt like when I did when I was 19 and had just bought my first Mamiya Sekor SLR.  Since that time photography has been more enjoyable for me than any other point in my 30+ years of professional photography.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2009, 03:14:13 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
* Ability to maybe have something accidental happen that's kinda cool looking: ______

This is what I miss most with digital. Next to the too sterile images. Sure post can solve this but it still doesn't feel the same. OTOH I can't seem to bring myself the buy a scanner and start using film again as well, maybe I am afraid to lessen my personal feeling about the mystical qualities of film. Some things remain better as memories
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 03:26:23 AM by Dustbak » Logged
evgeny
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2009, 04:14:22 AM »
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1. FED 2 - a Russian camera, may be a clone of Leica (I don't know), used it approx 35 years ago. It was great at that time.
2. Zenith 11 - this is another Russian camera with all metal construction, used it a few months, then broke and thrown in trash.
3. Nikon FM3a - a great compact film camera, sold it for more than I paid. A gem.
4. Nikon F6 - a great pro film camera, shot slide film, sold it for the same price that I paid. Another gem.
5. Nikon D40 - a gift to my wife, I use it rarely.
6. Contax 645 - these are my workhorses with two MFDBs. Passively looking to sell one of the MFDBs, which I don't use, and may be one Contax outfit.
7. ...waiting for the Nikon D4x...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 04:16:52 AM by evgeny » Logged
jsch
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2009, 06:17:12 AM »
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Only the favourite cameras, but it is also about the lenses so I added some of my favourites here too:

  • Nikon FM (50/1.8, 35/2.Cool
  • Nikon F3 (50/1.4, 85/2)
  • Hasselblad EL, 503CW (50/4, 80/2.Cool
  • Sinar 4x5, 8x10* (300 Apo Ronar, 300/360 Sinaron S)
  • Canon 1D (24-70/2.8L, TS-E 24/3.5)
  • Canon 1DsMkII (50/1.2, TS-E 45/2.Cool
  • Canon 5DMkII

This is still the best combo: Sinar 8x10 and Sinaron S

Best,
Johannes
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gdwhalen
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2009, 07:23:07 AM »
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Quote from: arashm
JR

I wrote this in another forum a few hours ago....

"Camera's are funny things
This last week I shot two jobs one with a H3d2-39 and the other the H3d2-31 plus the usual 5D2 stuff, yet the camera I just can't put down is the GF-1.... go figure"

Grab one, they are tons of fun, plus think of it this way; the whole thing is the price of a H battery and a charger
am

H battery and charger go for around $400.   This camera sells for around $900.

Fuzzy math.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2009, 07:59:45 AM »
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My memories of cameras are of the viewfinders, and the experience of actually interacting with them:

** Fuji 680: Best camera I ever used, by far. Shooting it with the WL finder, with 665, using the full 8cm x 8cm ground glass viewer, was like looking into the soul of a person, when shooting portraits, and when shooting landscapes with the 65 and 50 lens, it was like watching a movie in 3D.

** Film Hasselblad: Great viewfinder with the WL, or still very nice with the 45 Viewer that magnified more than the 90 degree. Very nice experience.

* Any 35mm camera, film or digital: Very so-so experience.

* Hasselblad H: Really nice viewer. Contax 645: not so much.

* Graflex Super D 4x5 and GowlandFlex 4x5 with chimney viewer: Wow. Very nice. Huge GG.

* I went into a store the other day to consider a carry-around Canon G11. I picked it up, looked through that gloryhole of a laughable VF, and thought to myself, "You've got to be f'ing kidding me", and sat it back down immediately.

* Mamiya 6: Nice big image in the VF, but I could never shoot a RF camera; I always have to look thru the taking lens in order to feel the picture.

* RZ: I never shot a frame with an RZ, but I'd bet it would rank right up there at the top, justifying two asterisks.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2009, 08:09:29 AM »
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The hard thing about viewfinders is that once you go big, it's hard to go back. At one point I owned a 20D. Now when I look through an APC-S 35mm I can't believe how small it looks. I find that surprising about the 35mm market, that so many don't spend the relatively modest amount for a Full Frame view.


Steve Hendrix
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 08:18:49 AM by Steve Hendrix » Logged

Steve Hendrix
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MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475
Dustbak
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2009, 08:12:05 AM »
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That offer for a P65+ is mighty sharp and interesting. Amazing that when showing interest for an upgrade of Hasselblad equipment the only offers & info I get are from a P1 dealer

Don't go changing your posts that quickly on me Steve!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 08:13:12 AM by Dustbak » Logged
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2009, 08:19:45 AM »
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Quote from: Dustbak
That offer for a P65+ is mighty sharp and interesting. Amazing that when showing interest for an upgrade of Hasselblad equipment the only offers & info I get are from a P1 dealer

Don't go changing your posts that quickly on me Steve!


?
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Steve Hendrix
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MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2009, 08:20:03 AM »
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Nikon FM2: great camera, made completely of titanium and is still going strong, this was my first camera that I got when I was 14, fully manual which really forced me to learn.  

Toyo View 45x: got this in college and pretty much fell in love with photography with it, I learn almost everything with this camera.  

Quaker Oats box 8 x 10 pinhole, really cheap, requires a little work to get it going  

Canon 5d with ts lenses.  

Soon to get Alpa 12max
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 08:21:34 AM by JoeKitchen » Logged

Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
"Try not to be just better than your rivals and contemporaries, try to be better than yourself."  William Faulkner
Dustbak
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2009, 08:21:07 AM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix
?

I was referring to the need of an updated avatar.
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