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Author Topic: Observations of a Greehorn  (Read 10597 times)
Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2009, 02:47:34 PM »
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Quote from: eronald
Enough. Apple, Adobe Epson etc. have for years encouraged a model where no interoperability diagnostics are NEVER incorporated into the products. The user is responsible for making sure things work as advertised. Yeah, sure. Guess how often that really works? I would bet that only 5-10% of people who are color management aware actually have fully functional CM chains. The reason is that usually even when someone in the know sets up a users system, bit-rot (configuration mistakes, presets that copy badly, driver updates) will sooner or later cause that system to revert back to an erroneous workflow.

Edmund

Sticking up for Apple and the idiot proofing path are we? But, yes I can see your point and Apple's.

The dumbing down with better idiots all the time. Man this is getting scary.

Doyle
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eronald
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« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2009, 04:28:16 PM »
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Quote from: DYP
Sticking up for Apple and the idiot proofing path are we? But, yes I can see your point and Apple's.

The dumbing down with better idiots all the time. Man this is getting scary.

Doyle

What I'm saying is a Plague on All their Houses!

Let these guys sit down and build some diagnostics so that users can easily check if their systems are working ok.

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
William Walker
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« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2009, 12:23:47 AM »
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Doyle, for me it is as simple as that. I'll tell you why: I might be a Greenhorn when it comes to Colour Management and Printing - but after thirty years in the the Service industry I'm not so green there. It is all about customer perceptions, and this my perception as an Apple customer.

When I buy a product I expect it to work. Now as you know, I bought an iMac, I upgraded to Snow Leopard, I bought the Epson 3880 and I bought the Colormunki - then I followed all the instructions all these manufactures gave me and I printed the ugliest pictures I have ever seen. Frankly, after several days of trying to fix this thing with the help of passionate people like yourself, Edmund, et al I still ended up printing ugly pictures!

All I did was take the same iMac, the same Epson, (and CS3 instead of CS4) the same Colormunki and the same Idiot - and I made pictures where the term "night and day" does not even come close to describing the difference! The only difference was Snow Leopard (and CS3 and, if that is a problem, then shame on Adobe too!)

Here's where the Service part comes in. If I have any kind of problem with the products I sell and service, I have learned through the likes of service Gurus such as Tom Peters and others that you communicate with your customer, acknowledge that there is a problem and tell them how you are going to fix it. The only place where I heard there was a problem was on this website!

The ins and outs of the technicalities of the problem may well interest you - all I want is the damn thing that I paid a lot of money for - to work!

The bottom line for me is that it worked on Windows and it did not work on Apple - therefore Shame on Apple!

There are two impressions that I would not like to leave you with: firstly, that now I'm an expert - I understand that all I have accomplished so far is to get the system to work. Secondly, I sincerely appreciate the input I have received from you guys - I am just not all that interested in the "whys and wherefores".
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Schewe
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« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2009, 12:46:03 AM »
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Quote from: WillytheWalks
The bottom line for me is that it worked on Windows and it did not work on Apple - therefore Shame on Apple!

Gotta say, in the end you aren't wrong...

At one point, Apple friggin' OWNED digital imaging and printing...so what if Apple decided that a gamma 1.8 was best compared to a gamma 2,2 for the rest of the industry...for Apple it just WORKED...

Then, somewhere along the lines, ColorSync (which for a short period of time was actually working on Windows as well as Mac) was marginalized because of 1) iPods, iPhone, iMac, or "whatever"...

The bottom line is that what once made the Mac great was no longer a major factor and never will be again...

Yes, indeed, Shame on Figgin' Apple cause at one point, they completely OWNED this space (you NEEDED a Mac to solve this shyte) and then they let it all slip away...

Gotta tella ya...it ain't fun and elegant, but if ya want a print in the least amount of hassle, take your Mac, boot up under BootCamp to Vista or Windows 7 and make your friggin' prints and bypass the Mac print pipeline entirely...

Yes, the direct cause of the recent profile target problem is Epson, but the real reason is that Apple refused to provide an intentionally untagged output...(even though some of us told them t was important).
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2009, 05:31:54 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Yes, the direct cause of the recent profile target problem is Epson, but the real reason is that Apple refused to provide an intentionally untagged output...(even though some of us told them t was important).

Being able to print intentionally untagged output still works, maybe not with Epson and I don't know about HP, but with Canon at least the iPF series driver it does. Driver functions the same whether I choose Application Manages Color or No Color Management in PSCS4, and that is No Correction in the driver.

Since it can and has been proven that it can work correctly the blame game hasn't got Epson anywhere now has it?

Doyle
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2009, 05:40:08 AM »
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Quote from: WillytheWalks
When I buy a product I expect it to work. Now as you know, I bought an iMac, I upgraded to Snow Leopard, I bought the Epson 3880 and I bought the Colormunki - then I followed all the instructions all these manufactures gave me and I printed the ugliest pictures I have ever seen. Frankly, after several days of trying to fix this thing with the help of passionate people like yourself, Edmund, et al I still ended up printing ugly pictures!

I am sorry that you bought the wrong printer from the wrong company to work with Apple.

It you want to keep thing simple and don't really care why it it won't work correctly looks like your choices are.

Check if there is a new SL driver available. Then completely uninstall the old driver and install the new one. For what it is worth here is the latest driver for the 3880.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support...d=141552#stage1

Run Windows.

Purchase a printer that works with Snow Leopard.

Doyle
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 05:46:21 AM by DYP » Logged
William Walker
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« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2009, 07:53:22 AM »
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Thanks for that link - that is for Version 6.60 which is what I have.

I will continue with Windows until this thing is sorted out properly - the bottom line is that if Epson threw a "curve-ball" then the fact is that Windows appears to have responded better to it than Apple have.
Thanks again!
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eronald
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« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2009, 08:35:28 AM »
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Quote from: DYP
I am sorry that you bought the wrong printer from the wrong company to work with Apple.

It you want to keep thing simple and don't really care why it it won't work correctly looks like your choices are.

Check if there is a new SL driver available. Then completely uninstall the old driver and install the new one. For what it is worth here is the latest driver for the 3880.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support...d=141552#stage1

Run Windows.

Purchase a printer that works with Snow Leopard.

Doyle

I see another choice, the one I recommend to people, which is downgrade to Leopard temporarily, if you can.

I have a Leopard notebook which runs Leopard and all the various dongle drivers for my profiling software, and this notebook can both profile and print. It even runs my own custom profiling suite which drives my Barbieri spectro. I'd recommend that anyone on this forum who as an older Mac downgrade to Leopard for photo usage.

Up to now, I'm sorry to say I have not even been able to profile my Snow Leopard screen with the solution I usually employ. And yes, Doyle, I know that it's not Apple's fault, of course not, that most of the software I own seems to have issues with Snow Leopard. Apple is always right.

Edmund
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 08:39:13 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2009, 09:49:44 AM »
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Quote from: WillytheWalks
Thanks for that link - that is for Version 6.60 which is what I have.

I will continue with Windows until this thing is sorted out properly - the bottom line is that if Epson threw a "curve-ball" then the fact is that Windows appears to have responded better to it than Apple have.
Thanks again!

You and Epson will never get very far down the road with this horse behind the cart mentality. Until you all figure out who the horse is (like it or not) and how to properly hook up to it you and the software vendors will never get anywhere.

Doyle
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 10:04:53 AM by DYP » Logged
vgogolak
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« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2009, 05:08:33 PM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Gotta tella ya...it ain't fun and elegant, but if ya want a print in the least amount of hassle, take your Mac, boot up under BootCamp to Vista or Windows 7 and make your friggin' prints and bypass the Mac print pipeline entirely...

Yes, the direct cause of the recent profile target problem is Epson, but the real reason is that Apple refused to provide an intentionally untagged output...(even though some of us told them t was important).

...and here I was with a roomful of PC equipment thinking "...maybe these MAC guys have something.."

They do.....TROUBLES

Win 7 looking good, and my 7900 drivers are coming out just fine

for now!

:-)

regards
Victor
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