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Author Topic: LLVJ-19  (Read 19249 times)
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2009, 11:20:46 AM »
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Quote from: jackmacd
When is the next one?
Probably Summer/Fall 2010... We have a LOT of new Tutorial material to keep me occupied between now & then.
Thanks to you and the others for all the positive feedback.
Chris
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Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
jenbenn
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« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2009, 02:33:29 PM »
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I loved the namibia and the canvas photographer part. Very well done and very useful information. The last chapter was just odd.
What is the point of an on site color calibration tool for a landscape photographer? Ever since velvia we have strived to produce pleasant, striking, pleasing or whatever color necessary to make an image interesting and to create just the right athmosphere. We never needed colors to match exactly nature's color. This seems to be a tool for fashion shoots were exact color reproduction is needed - or one for geeks who cant enjoy and photograph the woods without a laptop. Sorry, but this was a very stupid presentation of an undoubtfully interesting tool. Particulrly the ending ("I sure never leave home without one") sounded like a third class door- to door sales man).
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michael
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« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2009, 03:08:43 PM »
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Sorry that you found it to be "stupid". The word that I would use is "fun".

Apparently an unfamiliar concept.

Michael
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Schewe
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« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2009, 04:08:35 PM »
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Quote from: jenbenn
Ever since velvia we have strived to produce pleasant, striking, pleasing or whatever color necessary to make an image interesting and to create just the right athmosphere. We never needed colors to match exactly nature's color.


Who is this "WE" Kimosabe?

While YOU may not give a whiff for accuracy, it's pretty arrogant to put ALL landscape photographers in the same lumpy group. Sure, to YOU accuracy ain't important...but to some people like Stephen Johnson, accuracy to the original scene is relevant and important. Actually, having an accurate starting point is real useful for those times where the scene or the light is difficult. If you have the time (and there are any questions about the scene) including a Passport (or any other standard reference) makes sense...the fact that you can so easily create a scene-accurate DNG profile in the field was what Michael was stressing. That's not something I would bother with on-site but later in the studio but the example was intended to show how easy it is...


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jenbenn
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« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2009, 05:05:14 PM »
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Quote from: michael
Sorry that you found it to be "stupid". The word that I would use is "fun".

Apparently an unfamiliar concept.

Michael
Some people consider certain things fun while others think they are a waste of time. Thats life. Still, fun is a familiar concept to me. I have lots of it, just by doing differnt things. I guess you took a offence at the word "stupid", I admit that word might not have been well chosen. I simply wanted to convey (by way of customer feedback) what kind of contents I like to buy and for which contents I would not spend my money in the future. I still think  that the tone at the end of the chapter was wrong as it sound all too much like cheap advertisment for this x-rite thing.
All in the hope of embracing the next VJ in full.  
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jenbenn
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« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2009, 05:15:54 PM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Who is this "WE" Kimosabe?

While YOU may not give a whiff for accuracy, it's pretty arrogant to put ALL landscape photographers in the same lumpy group. Sure, to YOU accuracy ain't important...but to some people like Stephen Johnson, accuracy to the original scene is relevant and important. Actually, having an accurate starting point is real useful for those times where the scene or the light is difficult. If you have the time (and there are any questions about the scene) including a Passport (or any other standard reference) makes sense...the fact that you can so easily create a scene-accurate DNG profile in the field was what Michael was stressing. That's not something I would bother with on-site but later in the studio but the example was intended to show how easy it is...
I do agree with you that a point of reference is valuable. I just dont get why one would take a light and compact Leica on a landscape shoot only to burden oneself with a laptop to check color accuracy on site. Anyways, I was just being provocative because I thought that the last chapter sounded too much like an advertisment, rather than a good technical review.
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Tom Montgomery
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« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2009, 07:40:07 PM »
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I just watched the interview with Norman Koren.  It was both interesting and frustrating!

Interesting because it was full of Good Stuff, as usual. Frustrating because it didn't go on for another few hours!  It touched on so many topics that could each be easily expanded into an entire VJ.  (Including "distortion in tube amps", which brought back many memories from a previous life in recording studios...)

We want more like this!  At least, I know that I do...

T.

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kaelaria
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« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2009, 12:23:13 AM »
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Love it so far!  THe production quality of 19 and 18 have been far above the rest, thanks guys!  These two look REALLY good on the big screen!
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Rusty
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« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2009, 10:59:51 AM »
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Quote from: ThomasM
I just watched the interview with Norman Koren.  It was both interesting and frustrating!

Interesting because it was full of Good Stuff, as usual. Frustrating because it didn't go on for another few hours!  It touched on so many topics that could each be easily expanded into an entire VJ.  (Including "distortion in tube amps", which brought back many memories from a previous life in recording studios...)

We want more like this!  At least, I know that I do...

T.

Agreed. I kept thinking-ask about dynamic range, but that did not happen. Maybe next time?
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Schewe
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« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2009, 04:38:01 PM »
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Quote from: jenbenn
I just dont get why one would take a light and compact Leica on a landscape shoot only to burden oneself with a laptop to check color accuracy on site.

Michael posted a story about that today...I suggest you read why he likes the M9 for landscape...see: A Landscape Photography Experiment


Quote from: jenbenn
Anyways, I was just being provocative because I thought that the last chapter sounded too much like an advertisment, rather than a good technical review.

You may call it "provocative", others might call it something a bit less polite...

Michael hit upon the idea of using the Passport for special lighting situations-which of course could include landscape photography. The fact that he did in in situ instead of back at home was because he COULD do it and compare the results with the actual lighting environment...

Perhaps if your attitude was adjusted, you might actually learn something (like how to get colors right on location).
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djoy
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2009, 04:30:03 AM »
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Quote from: jenbenn
I just dont get why one would take a light and compact Leica on a landscape shoot only to burden oneself with a laptop to check color accuracy on site.

I really think you missed the point.

Michael had the laptop there, balanced on the hood of his car to demonstrate the calibration for the camera and the LLVJ, I should have thought that rather obvious. In a normal situation you wouldn't be lugging the laptop with you... you'd shoot the target and move on, creating the profile when you got back home. X-Rite didn't go to so much trouble to make the Passport light, portable, rugged and compact for on-site use with the intent it must be accompanied by a laptop...

And as for colour accuracy... yes, "we" landscape photographers do sometimes like to be a little "creative" with colour, call it artistic license, but that doesn't mean "we" aren't interested in accurate colour. Far better to have an accurate starting point, and the option of accurate colour, than starting from whichever inaccurate colour balance the particular film or camera white balance has automatically chosen, and no option of accurate colour.

I have the X-Rite Color Checker Passport, and I wouldn't leave home without it either.
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jenbenn
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« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2009, 10:25:44 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Michael posted a story about that today...I suggest you read why he likes the M9 for landscape...see: A Landscape Photography Experiment




You may call it "provocative", others might call it something a bit less polite...

Michael hit upon the idea of using the Passport for special lighting situations-which of course could include landscape photography. The fact that he did in in situ instead of back at home was because he COULD do it and compare the results with the actual lighting environment...

Perhaps if your attitude was adjusted, you might actually learn something (like how to get colors right on location).

I admit I hit the wrong tone in my first post. Sorry for that, it should not happen again. Anyhow on a more constructive note I like to say that, I did learn how to get colors right because I had the "right" attidude and watched the video to the end before I made up my opinion about it.  My conclusion was that I had no use for the tool and that I didnt like the way in which it was presented.
As a general observation I find that the criticism (even constructive) of luminous landscape products ist often ill received, with Michael and yourself jumping at every not-so polite post and rejecting the argument from the outset. Just look at the PODAS discussion. Mr Rockwell was impolite and went to far with his criticim . There were however people who thought that his core point was correct. Yet Michael and yourself could not admit that it was maybe a not so good  idea to put those bad shots on the internet with public access.

There is no harm in saying to a critic " Thank you for your opinion, I can see your point, however I am not yet sure whether you are right or wrong, let me wait for more feedback." Or something like that. Speaking of attitude this would be a way of communicating that customer feedback is wanted and will be given consideration. I am not saying that you have to agree with me on my points, its just that I feel negative cristicim is not  wanted at all. Coming back to LV 19, while I think most of the praise for journal is well deserved, I think that even a good product has room for improvment and it should be in the producers interest to receive more than just praise.
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michael
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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2009, 10:55:12 AM »
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No problem with criticism. None at all.

My only concern was with your tone, which you now have amended, so let's all let it go.

Michael
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2009, 09:02:11 PM »
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I thought this was one of the best yet, and I've watched them all.  I loved the Namibia segments.  What a place and what an outstanding job of showing it to us ... HD certainly enhances things.

While I do enjoy the tutorials, the video journals are my favorite.
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Marlyn
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« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2009, 11:47:35 PM »
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Loved it as usual, all of the segments.   Also secretly wished for the one with Normen Koren not to end,   as with a background in valve amplifiers as used in the Navy,  (and a certifiable geek) it was a blast from the past.


There is only one downside of the LLVJ  (down, in a good way).      Yet again,  it likley resulted in me spending more money !.

I too have never seriously looked at Canvas. Mounting and framing it was a black art, and as I like to produce my own work, that was one reason not to touch it.   Also, the perception of  Loss of resolution on the hi-res pano's.    However, after seeing the Interview with Andrew Collet, it has certainly prompted a renewed interest in exploring it.

That just tipped me over the edge on upgrading the 7800 to a 9880 which I ordered today.  (Certainly not the only reason, but the 'straw' as it were).


I used a coupon outstanding from old DVD subscription to buy the SD version.  Based on all the comments,  Think I'll now have to go buy the HD one as well !

Michael & Chris,  Keep up the good work, and look forward to more comming down the line in 2010.

Regards

Mark.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 11:49:17 PM by Marlyn » Logged
chex
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« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2009, 02:28:36 PM »
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Just bought this (my first one!) =D, and it's awesome.

Just wanted to ask why you persist in using Canon if they are so annoying to you, Michael? Is there any particular reason you choose them over Nikon or Sony (or anyone else)?
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michael
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« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2009, 02:46:49 PM »
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Quote from: chex
Just bought this (my first one!) =D, and it's awesome.

Just wanted to ask why you persist in using Canon if they are so annoying to you, Michael? Is there any particular reason you choose them over Nikon or Sony (or anyone else)?

In fact, I don't.

Sonys are now my primary DSLR system. But, I test and long-term use a variety of cameras, so I'm not a representative sample of anything.  
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ckimmerle
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« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2009, 06:47:06 PM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Perhaps if your attitude was adjusted, you might actually learn something (like how to get colors right on location).

Are you this much of an ass in person, or just online?
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"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing new landscapes, but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust

Chuck Kimmerle
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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2009, 11:04:42 PM »
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Quote from: ckimmerle
Are you this much of an ass in person, or just online?


Yeah, pretty much bud...I tend to call things as I see them and if you don't like it, I suspect you know what you can do with your own fool self, right?

Fact is, I suspect the poster of the messages to which that refers actually _DID_ learn something. Like why Michael used a Leica M9 and how somebody might use a Passport on location. I further suspect he actually may have learned something beyond what YOU may have learned if you are silly enough to have actually asked the question above using your "outside voice"...

So, come on "ckimmerle" wanna dance? A promise to be sure to step on your toes!

:~)




(just wondering, if I'm an ass, what does that make you? Hey, just asking...inquiring minds want to know :~)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 11:08:05 PM by Schewe » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2009, 11:41:11 PM »
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Hi,

Those videos from Namibia are a couple years old. Michael ditched both the Hasselblad and the Canon meanwhile, for Phase One and Sony it seems.

Those videos are about Namibia and I guess that the country is still the same.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: michael
In fact, I don't.

Sonys are now my primary DSLR system. But, I test and long-term use a variety of cameras, so I'm not a representative sample of anything.  
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