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Author Topic: X-Rite Colorchecker Passport Profile question  (Read 3537 times)
CaptnWil
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« on: December 12, 2009, 06:14:24 PM »
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I have spent some time working with the X-Rite Colorchecker Passport to produce camera profiles.  I have had much exchange with X-Rite and watched Michelís video.  For me, there are some strange things going on.

1.  From what I have read, the hardware and software are supposed to make a profile for that particular camera shooting in that particular light.

2.  I find from Michelís video, and other sources, that after jumping through all the profile making hoops, one must then also set the white balance in the application (Lightroom, etc.).

3.  In the video, that white balance was set by using the eye dropper on the appropriate square on the Passport on the same image which generated the profile in the first place.

4.  Since the target from which the white balance is made is available to the profile making software, why isnít it done in the profile making process?  Isnít that what a profile is all about?

Wil  
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2009, 07:40:11 PM »
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Quote from: CaptnWil
4.  Since the target from which the white balance is made is available to the profile making software, why isnít it done in the profile making process?  Isnít that what a profile is all about?

No. White balance is about scaling the red, green, and blue channels of the RAW data so that with neutral highlights, R=G=B in the RAW data. The profile controls color rendition AFTER white balance has been set. Regardless of what profile you use or how you made it, you still need to set white balance properly. Depending on what you're doing, "properly" may mean using a neutral reference to set an accurate white balance, or you may wish to deviate from "accurate" white balance for creative reasons. But either way, the color rendition done by the profile happens after white balance has been set.
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vgogolak
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 07:36:46 AM »
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is it true the passport software CANNOT produce a profile for C1, except DNG?
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Czornyj
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 07:44:47 AM »
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Quote from: vgogolak
is it true the passport software CANNOT produce a profile for C1, except DNG?

Yes, it's true. C1 works with the ICC profiles, while Passport creates DNG profiles, that can only be used in ACR/LR.
Ironically, Passport beta had the option of ICC camera profile creation, but it was abandoned in the final version of the software.
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vgogolak
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 12:58:47 PM »
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a workaround suggested by Jack Flesher is to use the passport in an and image, bring into C1, eyedrop the 'white/grey' that gives the best rendition, then create , name and save an ICC profile in C1.

I guess C1 looks at the original and the 'balanced' files and takes the difference as the 'profile' (or just uses the original, say the P65+) and so you get an ICC. Likely depends on having a good scene, because you are NOT using all the colors, as the passport would use to create a DNG profile.

I wonder if you could import a 'greycard' with the DNG from passport profile into C1 and then just renmae and save as ICC?

Color management mavens, any ideas?

Victor
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ormike
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 08:39:05 PM »
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Quote from: vgogolak
a workaround suggested by Jack Flesher is to use the passport in an and image, bring into C1, eyedrop the 'white/grey' that gives the best rendition, then create , name and save an ICC profile in C1.

I guess C1 looks at the original and the 'balanced' files and takes the difference as the 'profile' (or just uses the original, say the P65+) and so you get an ICC. Likely depends on having a good scene, because you are NOT using all the colors, as the passport would use to create a DNG profile.

I wonder if you could import a 'greycard' with the DNG from passport profile into C1 and then just renmae and save as ICC?

Color management mavens, any ideas?

Victor

I struggled to profile my 5D using the X-Rite 24-patch color checker without success. I was hoping for results similar to the excellent profiles I made for my transparency scanner using a Hutch Color Precision Scanner Target. After much research I purchased the target and profile services from Christophe Metairie Photographie at www. cmp-color.fr and I could not be more pleased. Each target is measured individually and they provide 5 separate profiles. The only problem is the weak dollar to Euro exchange rate but it is still a good choice. Note that I use RAW Developer for processing my RAW files
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bjanes
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2010, 06:59:44 AM »
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Quote from: ormike
I struggled to profile my 5D using the X-Rite 24-patch color checker without success. I was hoping for results similar to the excellent profiles I made for my transparency scanner using a Hutch Color Precision Scanner Target. After much research I purchased the target and profile services from Christophe Metairie Photographie at www. cmp-color.fr and I could not be more pleased. Each target is measured individually and they provide 5 separate profiles. The only problem is the weak dollar to Euro exchange rate but it is still a good choice. Note that I use RAW Developer for processing my RAW files
Profiling of a scanner is much easier than profiling a camera. The scanner uses the same light source for all of its work, whereas a camera uses multiple light sources. In addition, scanners are often optimized for reproduction of the CMY dyes used in photographic materials, while a camera has a much wider range of source colors.
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bjanes
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 07:07:50 AM »
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Quote from: CaptnWil
I have spent some time working with the X-Rite Colorchecker Passport to produce camera profiles.  I have had much exchange with X-Rite and watched Michelís video.  For me, there are some strange things going on.

1.  From what I have read, the hardware and software are supposed to make a profile for that particular camera shooting in that particular light.

2.  I find from Michelís video, and other sources, that after jumping through all the profile making hoops, one must then also set the white balance in the application (Lightroom, etc.).

3.  In the video, that white balance was set by using the eye dropper on the appropriate square on the Passport on the same image which generated the profile in the first place.
I also watched Micheal's video on the LL video journal, and the result he obtained with the Passport profile was much better than the results without it, but I wondered if similar results could have been obtained by shooting a Whibal or similar reference card to set the white point in Lightroom, without making a custom profile. I suppose, the results would vary with the lighting. With lighting conforming to black body spectra, I would think that the Whibal would work well, whereas the Passport profile would have an advantage with nonstandard illumination. In Micheal's shoot the light could have been filtered by the surrounding vegetation.
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