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Author Topic: Stupid Computers  (Read 11048 times)
SeanFS
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« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2009, 12:29:44 AM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
So.... I'm pretty anxious to get a new tower.  My MBP is so much faster than my Dual G5 that I use the laptop for everything nowadays.  I've been holding off on a new Mac Pro as the line is nearly 300 days old.  We're supposed to get 6 core towers in March.  However, I'm fairly annoyed that PS is still running in 32 bit on Mac whereas PC users have been running a 64 bit version for a while now (if they've installed the 64 bit OS).

I've actually been thinking about moving to PC for the tower, so that I can upgrade sooner and have the most flexibility in builds.  Not being exposed to Windows at all nowadays, would I be totally frustrated with a PC box?  Should I just wait for the new Mac's?

Pros and cons to each side?

I know a few of you have got to have a lot of opinions on the subject, lemme hear 'em.

Gracias,

CB


I have been in the same situation = PC boxes always have such tempting specs, but then there is windows and the windows version of everything., Then my computer guy offered me a second hand 4 core mac pro second hand at a very cheap price ( especially compared to new!) and it really does the business so I can run Phocus and capture one on the proper platform . Still have the G5 for admin. The 2.66 Macpro is  fast enough for Raw processing ( and will be faster once I shove some more ram and a couple of drives for a raid system into it ) and  so I will leave off getting anything newer until the volume of work requires it.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2009, 02:58:13 AM »
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Quote from: ddk
Basically, that's really what its mostly about, otherwise, great hardware is available to both platforms and today, unless you're using software that's specific to only one OS.



Thank you!!!

Very true...I dont understand how anything else is different specially now with the cpu being Intel.

I just like to know where my files are in detail, and like to know the structure and organization of them.
I like to know if a file is moved or copied, applicatons settings are saved. etc.  I was never able to do that with a MAC OS. I would have to accept what it said.
Mac OS, I always seem to be blocked of doing something, or knowing where things are.  My first system was a MAC, and many systems to come.  Then I got a PC, and had both. I still use both.
I think it really comes down to what you feel comforatble using.  If you never used a Windows OS or XP, and don't have lots to manage, I think a MAC is great.

It would be interesting to know which OS runs "lean" and faster than the other?

If you want a PC with support buy a Dell or Hp, gateway etc.  They come with decent warranties.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2009, 03:02:48 AM »
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Quote from: Christopher
As far as I can see with Adobe you do NOT have to buy a new license. Oh and who hooks up his workstation to the internet ? never, no matter whether mac, linux or windows



I have my workstation running on the internet, but I have a differnet system for email and ftp.  so its just for updates and sometimes if I need to lookup something.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2009, 03:20:04 AM »
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Quote from: DanielStone
chris,

why not build/have a HACKINTOSH built for you?

windows-box running OSX. a friend of mine put one together running W7 dual booted with OSX, for about $2500, has 8 cores, 12gb of ram, (2) 300gb WD 10k rpm scratch drives, plenty of video card space, 750w power supply, in a sweet aluminum/black case(still trying to find the case online)

here it is...

.

the only downside is though: YOU ARE THE TECH GUY. there isn't someone you can call .

but if I were you, I'd get a Mac Pro, and write it off. you can just get a bare-bones one with a kick-ass set of processors, and upgrade the HD's and memory from OWC(other world computing) for A LOT LESS $$$ than if you ordered it straight from Apple.

same friend's dad(who bought a mac pro 2 months ago=graphic designer), upgraded his 2gb of stock ram to 16gb for like $500, apple would have charged like $1100. you do the math, he put one of the 300gb Raptor drives  HERE. my

if I had the money for a shiny new mac pro, I'd buy the bare bones one, with the best processor that fit my budget, and then waddle over to OWC and get my upgrade ram and get the HD's from Newegg. can save a LOT OF $$$$.


-Dan


That Looks like a LIAN tower or a Silverstone.

Couple months ago I built my main workstation(oposted in another thread)12GB ram i7 that is quad core at 3.5Ghz with 1gb fanless video card, SSD drive for OS and 2 scratch SSD'd,  with dual screen. I can hardly hear the system is on. It is blazing fast.  
All for about $1300. It has a DVD writer and even thermal readings and fan control in a very slick aluminum case by Lian, it is also very light weight.
Win7 Ultimate with CS4 64bit, C1 Pro5 (as 3.7x will not run).   I can use 400 or 600 point brush, anad it doesnt stutter.Apply any effect you want...snap.  One thing that I dont understand why it does slow is the smear/blurr finger tool.  I will take it and smear a image with 400 or 500 size, and it starts right away, but it is in slow motion.  Yes they are large files in CMYK(don't get started on me, it was just testing), and it goes at a pace.  most other things even the drop blurr are rather snap and done.  

Chris might know this one...?
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Christopher
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« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2009, 06:17:47 AM »
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Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
That Looks like a LIAN tower or a Silverstone.

Couple months ago I built my main workstation(oposted in another thread)12GB ram i7 that is quad core at 3.5Ghz with 1gb fanless video card, SSD drive for OS and 2 scratch SSD'd,  with dual screen. I can hardly hear the system is on. It is blazing fast.  
All for about $1300. It has a DVD writer and even thermal readings and fan control in a very slick aluminum case by Lian, it is also very light weight.
Win7 Ultimate with CS4 64bit, C1 Pro5 (as 3.7x will not run).   I can use 400 or 600 point brush, anad it doesnt stutter.Apply any effect you want...snap.  One thing that I dont understand why it does slow is the smear/blurr finger tool.  I will take it and smear a image with 400 or 500 size, and it starts right away, but it is in slow motion.  Yes they are large files in CMYK(don't get started on me, it was just testing), and it goes at a pace.  most other things even the drop blurr are rather snap and done.  

Chris might know this one...?


Just curious but what type of SSDs are you using ? Even cheap Intel M 80Gb cost around 200EURs each.
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ziocan
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2009, 07:06:33 AM »
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Quote from: DanielStone
chris,

why not build/have a HACKINTOSH built for you?

windows-box running OSX. a friend of mine put one together running W7 dual booted with OSX, for about $2500, has 8 cores, 12gb of ram, (2) 300gb WD 10k rpm scratch drives, plenty of video card space, 750w power supply, in a sweet aluminum/black case(still trying to find the case online)

here it is...

.

the only downside is though: YOU ARE THE TECH GUY. there isn't someone you can call .

but if I were you, I'd get a Mac Pro, and write it off. you can just get a bare-bones one with a kick-ass set of processors, and upgrade the HD's and memory from OWC(other world computing) for A LOT LESS $$$ than if you ordered it straight from Apple.

same friend's dad(who bought a mac pro 2 months ago=graphic designer), upgraded his 2gb of stock ram to 16gb for like $500, apple would have charged like $1100. you do the math, he put one of the 300gb Raptor drives  HERE. my

if I had the money for a shiny new mac pro, I'd buy the bare bones one, with the best processor that fit my budget, and then waddle over to OWC and get my upgrade ram and get the HD's from Newegg. can save a LOT OF $$$$.


-Dan
That is a Lian Li tower.
newegg.com carry them.

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kers
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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2009, 12:02:39 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
So.... I'm pretty anxious to get a new tower.  My MBP is so much faster than my Dual G5 that I use the laptop for everything nowadays.
CB


I do not know how you can work with these large files on a G5. What you buy now is about 10 times faster...
The choice between Appe and Windows is more about what you like best- they have the same speed & processors...
I would put a raid-0 in it to make it faster and a large amount of RAM.

If you want a fast mac I would consider Lloyd Chambers very usefull website;   http://macperformanceguide.com/

Pieter
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 05:49:38 PM by kers » Logged

Pieter Kers
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2009, 12:42:54 PM »
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Quote from: Christopher
Just curious but what type of SSDs are you using ? Even cheap Intel M 80Gb cost around 200EURs each.

OOppps... I swapped out the WD-Raptor after wards. So drives are a bit more :-)
Even with the drives....Just about $2K, as they were about $200/$300 64/128.

I am using the Patriot Torqx drives. 128GB for OS, and 2x 64GB for scratch.

MB was $150 Asus Pro
12GB ram I forget the price, but they are likely Patriot  Newegg price
i7 cpu the 870. Not the original 955. but Asus allows a overclock that I have 49c degrees at 3.47Ghz (cpu-id) $280
Thermal Silent fan $40
all alum short tower case $110
vid card $90 to 120?
dvd write $40
Sythe temp reader $30
roller stand to sit tower on IKEA  $8-15?
I also purchased an Intel NAS SS4x? (upgrades RAM) for $149 from NewEgg, and originally installed 5 500GB drives I had new.  But now I have 4 Hitachi 1TB waiting to go in as RAID1(Faster? than RAID5).
Samsung XL 30 LED screen for main

I will likely get 1 or even 2 more Intel NAS(TB drives), This will replace the 8Bay (8x1TB) Sans Digital tower I have.
and then 2x 2TB external backup to do weekly backups on each...then turn those drives off after backup, as the RAID drives can fail around the same time. and keeping drives off power will surely lengthen the life.





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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2009, 12:47:41 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
Yeah, I kind of wonder about getting a used machine with fewer cores but greater clock speed.  If Photoshop isn't using all the cores, couldn't an older machine with more Mhz be faster?

-CB

Speaking for myself only, my current machine is a 2x4core 3.2 early 2008 MacPro with 24G ram and 6 internal drives in various RAID configurations -- older, but no slouch even with the P65+ files.  However, I already have a buyer for this existing machine when the 2x6-core Macs this spring, so my upgrade cost becomes reasonable -- so I am planning on doing it. (If there are only 1x6core machines, then no, I won't be upgrading.)   Will CS be faster?  Not unless CS5 makes better use of onboard RAM.  And upgraded programs like Helicon Focus and AutoPano Giga (and Pro) and C1 already run pretty fast on my current machine, so maybe I only net a 15 to 20% performance gain with the new machine, but then I am future-proofed somewhat.  Not an easy call, but for me a probably yes...
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 12:53:44 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

PatrikR
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« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2009, 01:45:05 PM »
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Quote from: ctz
Yes, maybe there is an "user error".
But chances are that using MacOS you would not fall in this kind of "error" in the first place...

Sorry, just my two cents.

Like the young John O'Connor from Terminator 2 would put it: "Exactamundo"

And I do admit the total 100% zero interest into learning to control the Windows system.

But C is also right and I admit - Guilty as charged:) Patrik
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Patrik Raski - Espoo, Finland
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« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2009, 02:07:32 PM »
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Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
If you're stupid enough to have updates set to install automatically, you have no right to complain when they install...automatically. It's kind of like complaining that it hurts when you whack your thumb with a hammer. The solution is to quit whacking your thumb--all you need to do to fix this behavior is set updates to download automatically, but install manually (hint: it's the middle option in Microsoft Update). When updates are available they will automatically download, but YOU choose when you want to install them instead of having it happen automatically in the middle of something else.

Thanks Mr. Wienke. Sorry I had no idea that I was not smart enough to use the Windows.

Please share more tips if there are others equally idiots like me otherwise you can just pm me.
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Patrik Raski - Espoo, Finland
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« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2009, 02:23:49 PM »
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Quote from: PatrikR
Thanks Mr. Wienke. Sorry I had no idea that I was not smart enough to use the Windows.

Please share more tips if there are others equally idiots like me otherwise you can just pm me.



Ya a bit harsh on Pat there.
Yes, it is not a good idea to have auto updates always on.  Although I control it, I manually do all the critical updates anyway. I don't do any of the others. NetFrame on C1 you are forced (not sure why??)

Oddly enough with Win7 the first drivers it installed for a couple different things (vid card, LAN) worked just fine.  I did the update to the driver, and new drivers failed.  

  Thats why the MAC is rather appealing to so many, it is for people who dont care to know.  You don't really know how to organize or setup your files , with a MAC you dont have a choice, and that is sometimes a great thing....Ignorance is bliss, and it seriously can be rewarding to get else done than tinker with a computer.  
I am too controlling, as I am with my images, so I want to SEE where my files "sit".
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LiamStrain
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« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2009, 02:35:23 PM »
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The mac gives you as much control as you want. It can run on autopilot and be just fine, or you can get as in-depth as anyone would care to and start mucking around in the Unix if you really want it.

I like that you can do both.

With Windows the maintenance is required, and often for things I really wish I didn't have to bother with. I use both at the office. But the Mac's get 80% of my work, and the PC a disproportionate amount of effort for how little I still do use it.

I think my next upgrade will be another Mac Pro, and dual boot.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2009, 04:35:52 PM »
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Quote from: LiamStrain
The mac gives you as much control as you want. It can run on autopilot and be just fine, or you can get as in-depth as anyone would care to and start mucking around in the Unix if you really want it.

I like that you can do both.

With Windows the maintenance is required, and often for things I really wish I didn't have to bother with. I use both at the office. But the Mac's get 80% of my work, and the PC a disproportionate amount of effort for how little I still do use it.

I think my next upgrade will be another Mac Pro, and dual boot.


Is the Unix mode with a differnt GUI or is it command line?
If the latter....Who wants to go into it in Unix command line to do anything?  I certainly dont.  it is bad enough we are tinkering with the PC's in Windows Explorer (Windows7 did some very nice additions), now we need to go back to Dos on the MAC to handle things...No Thanks!  But if it has a GUI to manage the files, then for me...It all comes down to the esthetics and if you want to pay the price for it.  I loved the look of the G5. (My version used to run super hot), but the Lian cases are so stealth and lightweight, all aluminum, and clean lines, I am very happy with it.  

At the end, its all about you being happy...or the Art Director that has to look over your shoulder, and has no clue yet is convisnced that MAC's are the better for design/PS/graphics.
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LiamStrain
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« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2009, 04:45:53 PM »
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The Unix base is command line. But even when using the GUI, it's not as tho OSX is moving your files around unless you are silly about what software you are using and how it's set up (iPhoto for instance, which is crap software to begin with). I guess I didn't understand your comment about "where the files sit" ... Mine are organized in the same file structure across both systems, and can be browsed, moved, organized, etc. however I wish.

Functionally, the operating systems are very similar. I just have to do less to the mac to keep it running well.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2009, 04:55:06 PM »
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Quote from: LiamStrain
The Unix base is command line. But even when using the GUI, it's not as tho OSX is moving your files around unless you are silly about what software you are using and how it's set up (iPhoto for instance, which is crap software to begin with). I guess I didn't understand your comment about "where the files sit" ... Mine are organized in the same file structure across both systems, and can be browsed, moved, organized, etc. however I wish.

Functionally, the operating systems are very similar. I just have to do less to the mac to keep it running well.


Ok, now you got me up to fire up the Mac (OS 10.4?6? one of those)and take another look with more patients :-)

I like seeing each of my drives and computers on the network. right clicking getting the info and sharing the idividual folders for users rather simple.
On the Mac, I never got used to the way it lays out the file structure "tree" as You get the drive or drives, then applications just along the drives then the docs also along. I dont think you can change that.

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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2009, 05:33:06 PM »
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I can get used to it. It does have somewhat of a left pane, but it is far from a skeletal view of the structure of files. ...not in a way I am used to seeing it and still "masked" ..  Ya, just what you prefer.  If anyone is buying either a PC or MAC, just buy them with some assured warranty. they are the same crap.  If you are building your own, than obviously you are on a PC, or some modded MAC.

So to the OG poster....the answer is obvious...Find a good lab, and stock on film :-) HA!

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RobertJ
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« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2009, 02:48:10 PM »
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This thread is hilarious.  Some of these posts... Wow.  This is like reading a report on computers from Ken Rockwell.

Lots of ignorance going on in here about computers, whether PC or Mac.  

And that post from michele that says "Windows is the first virus for your computer blah blah..." REALLY takes the cake.  Wow!  Seriously?  People like you shouldn't be allowed to use computers.  Period.  

PC vs. Mac threads = EPIC FAIL.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 02:48:35 PM by T-1000 » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2009, 09:19:21 PM »
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Quote from: PatrikR
Thanks Mr. Wienke. Sorry I had no idea that I was not smart enough to use the Windows.

If you'd have simply asked how to keep Windows from rebooting while you're in the middle of doing something important, you'd have gotten a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. But if you're going to criticize the OS for something so obviously user error, you should expect a few chuckles at your expense, like the guy who called tech support because the "cup holder" on his tower kept retracting and spilling his drink every time he rebooted his computer...
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« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2009, 11:05:07 PM »
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Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
If you'd have simply asked how to keep Windows from rebooting while you're in the middle of doing something important, you'd have gotten a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. But if you're going to criticize the OS for something so obviously user error, you should expect a few chuckles at your expense, like the guy who called tech support because the "cup holder" on his tower kept retracting and spilling his drink every time he rebooted his computer...
I never use that cup holder anyway, 'cuz it's too small for my beer stein (urp!)
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http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
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