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Author Topic: Stupid Computers  (Read 10596 times)
Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2009, 01:59:07 AM »
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Quote from: Eric Myrvaagnes
I never use that cup holder anyway, 'cuz it's too small for my beer stein (urp!)


One thing I learned after wanting to give my MAC another go with patients and open mind approach......

If you have a lot of files and you are often managing them...I don't care if it does have Unix, it is a PAIN IN THE A$$ to manage my photos and files... to move them arround, and simple drag clicks become anoying chores.
And this is just my capture folders!  If you are used to it, that is great for you.

I also wonder what apps people cannot run on the MAC that (or just about every) user end up getting Windows to run on a MAC?  This I ask, as I can see file managing being the number 1 reason for me.

If you are not married into MAC software, and think you might run Windows on your MAC....Just get a PC. get a warranty, or have a knowledgable tech build you one.

Many newbie people think that Photoshop or other design or graphic software work better, or is easier to use on the MAC....SIMPLY, NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE TO TRUTH.  
Most things are identical...Things that are not, are a keystroke difference.  Thats it.

There is not one thing you can do on the Mac version of Adobe products that you cannot do on the PC version. (I might be wrong, but there are PC exclusive functions that the MAC doesn't have now)  I know this is likely very basic info, but I wanted to mention it in case there are viewers out there that might need to get that straight first.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 02:02:11 AM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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LiamStrain
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« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2009, 02:39:57 AM »
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I guess I must be used to it. I don't see any practical difference between the file structures and the way I use them.

I'd be curious to look over your shoulder some time Phil. To see what you are doing to organize your files.

I agree - there is no compelling reason to go with mac for graphics work. Not anymore anyway.

That said - I maintain that I have to do less futzing around with the computer itself, and can just concentrate on work, when using the mac.

But we'll probably have to agree to disagree.



The only reason I installed windows on my big mac's is to run autocad - which was not made in a mac friendly version (don't know if they've changed that). That, and working inside large corporations, the mac's tend to not play as well with MS exchange servers and NTLM authentication proxies. That's gradually changing, but has been a royal pain, running windows solved several of those issues without having to build redundant systems, or scrap legacy software.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2009, 02:49:28 AM »
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Quote from: LiamStrain
I guess I must be used to it. I don't see any practical difference between the file structures and the way I use them.

I'd be curious to look over your shoulder some time Phil. To see what you are doing to organize your files.

I agree - there is no compelling reason to go with mac for graphics work. Not anymore anyway.

That said - I maintain that I have to do less futzing around with the computer itself, and can just concentrate on work, when using the mac.

But we'll probably have to agree to disagree.



The only reason I installed windows on my big mac's is to run autocad - which was not made in a mac friendly version (don't know if they've changed that). That, and working inside large corporations, the mac's tend to not play as well with MS exchange servers and NTLM authentication proxies. That's gradually changing, but has been a royal pain, running windows solved several of those issues without having to build redundant systems, or scrap legacy software.


Only if you don't breathe heavily on my ears, and give me a 10 minute massage ...:-)

I have to open multiple Finder windows to get one thing out of a folder into another. and If I don't have the app I am using (C1 for instance) "Show me in Finder", I still don't know where that folder resides in any of the "views", and how many multiples of it I have, and it makes a of a mess, specially in C1 making multiple folders for Capture.
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brumbaer
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« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2009, 03:34:24 AM »
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Hello,

 
Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
I have to open multiple Finder windows to get one thing out of a folder into another.

I do not want to discuss whether having a source and a destination window is faster, clearer or whatever compared to doing the operation in one window. But let me point out, that you can copy files and folders in a single Finder window as well. Especially in the column view you can work as you can in the windows tree view. And if you are dragging a file or folder in any view, onto an folder it will open and let you travel down the directory tree to wherever your file shall go to.  The copy and paste method works equally well as it does in windows, also without the need of a second window.

 
Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
and If I don't have the app I am using (C1 for instance) "Show me in Finder", I still don't know where that folder resides in any of the "views", and how many multiples of it I have, and it makes a of a mess, specially in C1 making multiple folders for Capture.

I do not see that to be different in Windows. The app tells you where it's files are or it doesn't. If it doesn't you have to look for them.
As soon as you understand where the app puts it's files you know where to look, but again that's the same for any OS.
If you have a filename or an idea of an filename, spotlight and the Finder search will quickly find what you are looking for including duplicates, even if you do not know where the app stores it's file.

If you are happy with Windows and the way it works and the additional control it pretends to offer, why try OS X anyway. Stay with Windows, be happy and productive and let Mac users be happy and productive with OS X.

Most wouldn't call Windows a failure, because it doesn't work like the Norton Commander they are used to.

Regards
SH







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Theresa
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« Reply #64 on: December 24, 2009, 04:43:25 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
So.... I'm pretty anxious to get a new tower.  My MBP is so much faster than my Dual G5 that I use the laptop for everything nowadays.  I've been holding off on a new Mac Pro as the line is nearly 300 days old.  We're supposed to get 6 core towers in March.  However, I'm fairly annoyed that PS is still running in 32 bit on Mac whereas PC users have been running a 64 bit version for a while now (if they've installed the 64 bit OS).

I've actually been thinking about moving to PC for the tower, so that I can upgrade sooner and have the most flexibility in builds.  Not being exposed to Windows at all nowadays, would I be totally frustrated with a PC box?  Should I just wait for the new Mac's?

Pros and cons to each side?

I know a few of you have got to have a lot of opinions on the subject, lemme hear 'em.

Gracias,

CB

I have used both a iMac and Windows PCs extensively but do not have a professional workflow.  I am glad I went back to Windows.  The hardware can be both cheaper and better if you assemble it yourself.  I put this system together for about $1200 and a comparable Mac Pro would have been at least twice that.  It has a quad core i7 processor, 6GB RAM, and 2.5 TB of HD space.  The video card is an ATI 4870, last years technology but still faster than all but the most expensive options for a Mac and the monitor is a 25" one I already had.  The problem for me with the iMac is it couldn't be upgraded or expanded, outside of USB and Firewire disks.  eSATA is much faster than even USB 3.  I will be able to pop a 6 core processor into it if I ever need to.  I think OSX is a marginally better operating system but as someone mentioned it is significantly different from Windows so you may have trouble adapting.  Software is available for both, with rare exceptions it may be better on one than the other.  The fanbois of either system will tell you that one is vastly better than the other, but that is not my experience.  As someone said, try Windows 7 64 bit in either Parallels or the other (the name slips my mind) virtualizing software.  It runs quite well and you can get an idea if you will be able to work with Windows.  The learning curve for basic use is not steep for either Windows or Mac these days.  The Mac has wonderful industrial design but IMHO that does not make it more useful.  Back in the mid-80s the Mac was MUCH better than a pc running MSDOS, but those days are long past.  If you want to be pragmatic try both.  If you are highly emotionally attached to OSX then stay with it.  I think the world is enriched by diversity and the Mac adds that to the computer world, but I don't miss using one.  It is possible to use OSX on a non-Apple PC but that requires much tweaking and incompatibilities with hardware remain.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #65 on: December 24, 2009, 05:16:18 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
So.... I'm pretty anxious to get a new tower.  My MBP is so much faster than my Dual G5 that I use the laptop for everything nowadays.  I've been holding off on a new Mac Pro as the line is nearly 300 days old.  We're supposed to get 6 core towers in March.  However, I'm fairly annoyed that PS is still running in 32 bit on Mac whereas PC users have been running a 64 bit version for a while now (if they've installed the 64 bit OS).

I've actually been thinking about moving to PC for the tower, so that I can upgrade sooner and have the most flexibility in builds.  Not being exposed to Windows at all nowadays, would I be totally frustrated with a PC box?  Should I just wait for the new Mac's?

Pros and cons to each side?

I know a few of you have got to have a lot of opinions on the subject, lemme hear 'em.

Gracias,

CB



I am interested to know if any of these posts really helped you take a pick? Did you learn anything from them?  Cheers!
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free1000
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« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2009, 09:38:06 AM »
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I used PC's up until 2004 when I bought my first mac Laptop. In 2008 I switched from the PC towers to the Mac and now I would not go back to PC's.

The Mac has similar if not better performance for my pro photo workflow.
It has a better customer relationship management software than PC's (Daylite from Marketcircle).

But more importantly it has a lower cost of ownership than the PC did.

I no longer have to.

1) Run maintenance utilities like registry maintenance tools.
2)  Reinstall Windows on a regular basis when the registry gets corrupt for some undiagnosable reason.
3) Learn a superficially different UI every time there is a major OS release and spend ages hunting down where Msoft have decided to move my shortcuts, etc. in the latest OS build.
4) Undo numerous screws and fiddly bits to slot in a new hard drive.

When upgrading from an older mac to a new one.

I can use the migration assistant to move all my apps and data to the new machine, instead of starting a new

For backing up

I can easily use Carbon Copy Cloner to maintain an always ready bootable backup of my system drive.

This all ensures cheaper and easier operation and saves me on average 2 days of IT and maintenance per annum. And time is money.

Resale costs

When I want to upgrade, my macs have substantially less depreciation than PC's, as a result the true cost can be substantially lower than a plasticy PC.

Longevity.

That first powerbook 12 I bought as an experiment lay in the corner of my studio only occastionally used until last week when my partners HP laptop (4 years old) finally kicked the bucket, I've now moved her onto the PB as she is just using her computer for web surfing, email and playing with photos from her compact camera. So thats already 5 years of use whereas that HP laptop she bought has fallen apart after a shorter time.

I make the total cost of ownership of Macs to be lower than PC's. Not a scientific assessment, but that's my gut feel.
 

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Fritzer
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« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2009, 01:25:13 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
So.... I'm pretty anxious to get a new tower.  My MBP is so much faster than my Dual G5 that I use the laptop for everything nowadays.  I've been holding off on a new Mac Pro as the line is nearly 300 days old.  We're supposed to get 6 core towers in March.  However, I'm fairly annoyed that PS is still running in 32 bit on Mac whereas PC users have been running a 64 bit version for a while now (if they've installed the 64 bit OS).

I've actually been thinking about moving to PC for the tower, so that I can upgrade sooner and have the most flexibility in builds.  Not being exposed to Windows at all nowadays, would I be totally frustrated with a PC box?  Should I just wait for the new Mac's?

Apart from some filters, Photoshop is still a single core app, so the possibly upcoming 16 core mac won't do much for you.
I made the switch from a G5/2Ghz and a MBP ('08) to a 2008 MacPro 2.8Ghz some time ago, and the MacPro is significantly faster than both, day-and-night faster, actually.

With a decent amount of RAM (12-16GB) and a Raid0 scratch disk (only two drives), it's a very fast system, dealing with Aptus 75 files.
For more info on optimization, look here .

I have never used PS (CS4 here) in 64bit Windows, hence I can't comment on possible advantages of the 64bit PhotoShop .
Also, I'm running Windows XP on a seperate harddrive for a few programs - haven't tried Windows 7 yet.

If 7 is any similar to XP in the widest sense, I'll never be tempted to switch from OSX; it's not only the utter ugliness of XP, but also the non-intuitive file and system structure , and vulnerabilty to any hardware, software and malware issues imaginable.

People more capable than me have suggested that Windows needs to be re-done from scratch, much like Apple did with OSX, to become a modern OS.
I'm not very fond of many of Apple's current offerings, in particular the Pro line, but imho you just can't beat the OS for ease of use and mind.
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CBarrett
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« Reply #68 on: December 27, 2009, 02:00:43 PM »
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Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
I am interested to know if any of these posts really helped you take a pick? Did you learn anything from them?  Cheers!

I don't think I learned too much I didn't know... after battling with a bout of The OS is always Greener... I'm pretty sure I'm stickin with Mac.  Well, I've got until the new towers are released to thin kabout it, anyway.  No sense in investing in an aging machine.

I'll likely go with whatever midrange machine they release, 16gig RAM and 6 internal drives with the 3rd party expansion kit.  Maybe 1 4 drive Raid 0 for scratch and a 2 drive Raid 0 for OS.  Perhaps then my 5 drive eSATA Raid box will be reassigned to active job storage while the new Drobo serves as the Vault... incrementally backed up to external FW drive.... yada yada
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #69 on: December 27, 2009, 02:11:24 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
I'll likely go with whatever midrange machine they release, 16gig RAM and 6 internal drives with the 3rd party expansion kit.  Maybe 1 4 drive Raid 0 for scratch and a 2 drive Raid 0 for OS.  Perhaps then my 5 drive eSATA Raid box will be reassigned to active job storage while the new Drobo serves as the Vault... incrementally backed up to external FW drive.... yada yada


I just purchased 2 Intel NAS SS4200e.  each can hold 4 drives.  Very easy to use, and on sale for $135 shipped from Buy.com. Newegg had it on sale, but back up to $220.

I have 1 running with Raid0+1, it is upgradable, and it is super fast.

I recommend this for fast storage of mid sized needs.

best!
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pcunite
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« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2009, 02:56:57 PM »
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Quote from: Fritzer
If 7 is any similar to XP in the widest sense, I'll never be tempted to switch from OSX; it's not only the utter ugliness of XP, but also the non-intuitive file and system structure , and vulnerabilty to any hardware, software and malware issues imaginable.

People more capable than me have suggested that Windows needs to be re-done from scratch, much like Apple did with OSX, to become a modern OS. I'm not very fond of many of Apple's current offerings, in particular the Pro line, but imho you just can't beat the OS for ease of use and mind.

There are a lot of misinformed people in the world as well. Windows XP and newer running in LUA+SRP mode (google it) are some of the most secure systems available equaling a Linux system in SELinux mode. Your most likely a fine photographer but neither you nor your friends are experts at OS management. Run MAC because you think it is pretty not because it is secure.
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CBarrett
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« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2009, 03:00:46 PM »
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Quote from: pcunite
There are a lot of misinformed people in the world as well. Windows XP and newer running in LUA+SRP mode (google it) are some of the most secure systems available equaling a Linux system in SELinux mode. Your most likely a fine photographer but neither you nor your friends are experts at OS management. Run MAC because you think it is pretty not because it is secure.


Well,  I do like a pretty OS.  I'm sure I only considered switching because Windows 7 is sooo shiney!
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2009, 12:44:30 AM »
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Quote from: pcunite
There are a lot of misinformed people in the world as well. Windows XP and newer running in LUA+SRP mode (google it) are some of the most secure systems available equaling a Linux system in SELinux mode. Your most likely a fine photographer but neither you nor your friends are experts at OS management. Run MAC because you think it is pretty not because it is secure.

Either OS can be secured quite well. I've done some work at a 3-letter agency on their classified network, and PCs outnumbered Macs, except in the photo department.
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