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Author Topic: PRinting problem  (Read 17905 times)
Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2009, 06:21:56 PM »
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Quote from: Photo Op
Doyle- could you publish screen shots of the various steps you took so that we might "duplicate" the process with the printer and driver we have?

Thanks in advance.

Dave

Which process are you asking about.

Printing unmanaged target from ID?

Printing color managed from ID?

Printing unmanaged target from PS?

Printing color managed from PS?

It is really pretty simple once you under stand the concept that the driver/colorsync combo is converting to a profile. Once you figure out what that profile is when printing from an Apple new printing path application make sure it is sent in that profile even if it is just assigning that profile. This may not be reproducible in anything but PS.

I might ad this appears different than what Leopard does because in Leopard you would get the driver/colorsync converting to the profile that was set for the media you chose in the driver or default that you can see in the ColorSync Utility. This is no longer the case with Snow Leopard and that is why the ColorSync Utility Workaround where you could change the default profile in the ColorSync Utility now longer works with SL.

Doyle
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Photo Op
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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2009, 06:28:10 PM »
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Quote from: DYP
Which process are you asking about.


Printing unmanaged target from PS?


Doyle

Screen shot of PS4 print dialogue and related driver settings. As they say a picture is worth a 1000 words. I'll compare to my epson r2880, v6.62 driver.

ps-i'm a little confused by-

"So if you convert the image in PS to the printer profile and then assign sRGB"

thanks
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 06:33:57 PM by Photo Op » Logged

David
Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2009, 06:57:39 PM »
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Quote from: Photo Op
Screen shot of PS4 print dialogue and related driver settings. As they say a picture is worth a 1000 words. I'll compare to my epson r2880, v6.62 driver.

ps-i'm a little confused by-

"So if you convert the image in PS to the printer profile and then assign sRGB"

thanks

The printer driver setting are the same printer for ID managed and unmanaged and from PS with the trickery managed and unmanged.

Converting to your printer profile in PS is what you need to do first so that you can then trick the driver/colorsync into doing nothing by assigning sRGB so that is what the driver/colorsync thinks it is getting. In this flow no color is being converted/changed after the conversion to your printer profile in PS. No double profiling this way.

Doyle
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Photo Op
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« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2009, 07:35:39 PM »
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Testing your patience a little longer, could you post images of the 2 dialogues that accomplish the following-

"(1)Converting to your printer profile in PS is what you need to do first so that you can (2) then trick the driver/colorsync into doing nothing by assigning sRGB so that is what the driver/colorsync thinks it is getting."

Dave
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 07:36:11 PM by Photo Op » Logged

David
Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2009, 07:58:06 PM »
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Quote from: Photo Op
Testing your patience a little longer, could you post images of the 2 dialogues that accomplish the following-

"(1)Converting to your printer profile in PS is what you need to do first so that you can (2) then trick the driver/colorsync into doing nothing by assigning sRGB so that is what the driver/colorsync thinks it is getting."

Dave

Here you go.

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Photo Op
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2009, 08:00:06 PM »
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THANKS!
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David
Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2009, 08:27:43 PM »
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To avoid any confusion I should add that post Leopard drivers with have the Color Matching option in the drivers and pre Leopard I am pretty sure will not. Leopard drivers will probably not work correctly in SL and will most likely double profile but may not when Printer Manages Color is selected. If that is the case then do not assign sRGB or any other profile.

Doyle
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DonCone
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2009, 09:48:27 AM »
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Quote from: DYP
IT WORKED!

After profiling a target printed from Snow Leopard with PSCS4 assigning sRGB to the unmanaged profile target and setting Printer Manages Color and turning off CM in the 3.09 Epson 9600 driver, I got the exact same color correct printout from PSCS4 that uses the new printing path as I do from IDCS4 that uses the old printing path.

I it is pretty fair to assume that with the old none SL driver for the 7600 and 9600 when printing from PS through the new printing path, that colorsync is converting the output to sRGB. So if you convert the image in PS to the printer profile and then assign sRGB and then print using Printer Manages Color and turning off CM in the 3.09 Epson 9600 driver that you will get a correct color print. Since you cannot assign profiles in LR don't expect this to work when printing from LR.

Now the big question is, will this work with other print drivers that do not print correct color with SL. I have no way to know if all drivers that do not print correct color with SL using the new printing path have colorsync converting to sRGB. You could use my methodology to test various RGB profiles to try and find out what profile colorsync is using if sRGB does not work.

Doyle

I am so glad you did that test Doyle. Although it does not apply to me it will help those that are still trying to keep there old printers alive with Snow Leopard. I hope Epson does release a new driver in January as reported earlier but at least those that have the 7600-9600 printers can get past the problem.

Don
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glenno
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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2010, 08:28:46 PM »
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Wow, I just spoke to Epson pro tech support and the person there told me that ALL Epson Pro printers are having problems with dark prints in Snow Leopard, that it's not a driver issue but a Snow Leopard issue.  He said there's nothing Epson can do.

I hadn't heard of this being true for all the printers, but he was certain about it.  Anyway, I am having the problem on the 4000, like most seem to be.

Glad I found this thread, thank you for the info!  I may be missing something, though, because it's not quite working for us.

1st, in converting the image's profile, should it be to the standard printer profile (e.g., "Pro4000 Standard") or the one for the particular paper type (e.g., "Pro4000 Premium Semigloss")?  I assume the latter, right?

2nd, while this workaround fixes the problem of the overly dark prints, we're still getting worse results than we got pre-Snow Leopard on the same printer.  Prints are still a bit too dark, some colors are off, and it's doing a very poor job where colors grow dark in the original image (they're losing all saturation too early and suddenly dropping off to gray).  Again, this is compared to our pre-Snow Leopard prints on the same printer.  I tried assigning sRGB and using "Printer Manages Color."  Also tried "Photoshop Manages Color," and also tried not assigning sRGB. Those were worse.

Any ideas?  Is it a bad idea to try tweaking things in Color Management in the Print dialog?  I know it's best to leave CM off, but as a workaround, is it worth messing with?

We see that onscreen (and in the prints), just converting to any of the the Epson 4000 printer profiles in PS is changing some colors dramatically.  Blues go purple, yellows go greenish.  We got better blues and yellows in prints before.  Maybe the current profiles are bad?  I tried using an Ilford paper profile, and that gave us much better blues (both onscreen and in test prints), but it's still off in other ways: still a little too dark overall, and colors still lose saturation as they get dark.

Thanks for any further tips!

~Glenn

P.S.  All of our images already have a profile (Adobe RGB 98 for older finished files, or ProPhoto on more recent work, if we haven't already converted to Adobe RGB for printing).  Converting again unfortunately degrades the image quality a bit more, but I understand if it's a necessary evil for this workaround.  We can't revert to Leopard, so it is what it is.  What a shame.  I understand all the Epson pro printers work great in Windows 7.  Funny.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 08:31:28 PM by glenno » Logged
DonCone
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« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2010, 12:30:12 AM »
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[quote name='glenno' date='Jan 12 2010, 07:28 PM' post='339624']
Wow, I just spoke to Epson pro tech support and the person there told me that ALL Epson Pro printers are having problems with dark prints in Snow Leopard, that it's not a driver issue but a Snow Leopard issue.  He said there's nothing Epson can do.

Glenn, Epson has NOT updated the drivers for older pro printers for Snow Leopard. The newer printer drivers that have been updated are working fine and print normally. The 4000 has not been updated. Who ever you talked to clearly does not know what works and what does not.
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glenno
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2010, 12:36:00 AM »
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Quote from: DonCone
Glenn, Epson has NOT updated the drivers for older pro printers for Snow Leopard. The newer printer drivers that have been updated are working fine and print normally. The 4000 has not been updated. Who ever you talked to clearly does not know what works and what does not.
That makes much more sense. I asked the guy 3 times because I couldn't believe I hadn't heard any uproar, and he was adamant about it. I guess he just doesn't like Apple. (Or his job?  )
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Wills
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2010, 03:06:05 PM »
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I've been using Tiger for printing until Epson come out with an updated driver for my 9600, hopefully soon unless I've missed them?
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mdijb
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« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2010, 04:45:21 PM »
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2 weeks ago I talked with EPson asking about the new Snow leopard drivers for the Epson 7600.  They told me not until spring.  I took the hint and believe it will never appear.

It's a shame they will not support a printer that is only 2 generations old, while all the other makers are doing so.

I was so aggravated that I decided to bail on EPSON and bought a Canon 6100.  There is a large rebate available and the easy swappping between  ink sets sold me.

I am now up and running and happy with the print results.  The problem that started this posting has now disappeared.

MDIJB
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« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2010, 03:28:46 AM »
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Still nothing on the drivers?

I have a separate boot to Tiger for printing but it's a pain, does anyone have a suggestion so I can work within 10.6 and still achieve the quality of prints I get from printing in Tiger?

ps Thinking maybe a third party software rip or other work around
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2010, 08:38:57 PM »
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Quote from: William Wilson
Still nothing on the drivers?

I have a separate boot to Tiger for printing but it's a pain, does anyone have a suggestion so I can work within 10.6 and still achieve the quality of prints I get from printing in Tiger?

ps Thinking maybe a third party software rip or other work around

Go back and read the previous posts as I figured out a workaround for printing to a 9600 from 10.6 with PSCS4 which uses Apple's new printing path. This workaround will not work with LR and I did not try it with PSCS3. PSCS3 is an odd ball when it comes to printing as it had some elements in it that made it seem like it was using the new printing path. At least from all indications with iPF driver it seems to use the new printing path.

Anyway I will probably fire up the 9600 tomorrow for some card stock so I may just test it with PSCS3.

Doyle
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eddysmit
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« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2010, 02:50:57 AM »
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  Same problem here.
With the Mac and CS3 and 4 I never was able to make a decent print.
I use the Epson R1800 and the 7600.
The only way is to print out of CS4 and with the Epson programs.

No problems with the PC under XP. I use all the same settings and that works perfectly.
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2010, 08:07:03 AM »
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Quote from: eddysmit
 Same problem here.
With the Mac and CS3 and 4 I never was able to make a decent print.
I use the Epson R1800 and the 7600.
The only way is to print out of CS4 and with the Epson programs.

No problems with the PC under XP. I use all the same settings and that works perfectly.

I did some testing with PSCS3 and it matches what prints from PSCS4, but I also printing from ID and the PS prints are slightly darker. Looks like creating a profile from a PS outputted target assigning sRGB would work. It would be defiantly worth a try.

I did not try Generic RGB or Adobe RGB as the assigned profile.

I don't print anything color critical to the Epson 9600 out of PS and the printer driver so I am probably not going to bother with it.

The chances of Epson updating the drivers for these printers to Apple new printing path in probably pretty low, so look for another option like printing from applications that use the old path or old versions of Windows or OS X, or use a RIP.

What Epson Programs?

Doyle
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eddysmit
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« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2010, 08:29:41 AM »
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I had the same problem with the old OS X, snow leopard didn't change the problem.
Prints are always a little bit to dark and a lot to green.
Switching off all profiles in the PS printer workflow and using the vivid selection from the printer selection gives the best result.

Epson Easy Print together with the R1800 gives the desired results.
Or with the 7600 on a XP system.

This problem costed me a lot off paper, inkt, grey hairs and bad mooth...
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2010, 09:51:12 AM »
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Quote from: eddysmit
I had the same problem with the old OS X, snow leopard didn't change the problem.
Prints are always a little bit to dark and a lot to green.
Switching off all profiles in the PS printer workflow and using the vivid selection from the printer selection gives the best result.

Epson Easy Print together with the R1800 gives the desired results.
Or with the 7600 on a XP system.

This problem costed me a lot off paper, inkt, grey hairs and bad mooth...

I can get color correct prints out of the 9600 with apps that use the old printing path, and I know I got correct prints with PSCS2 and 10.4.x, and with RIPs which is as good as what the limitations of the 9600 are. But, it is and was no where near what I can print from the Canon iPF9000 even though the best from the 9600 was with the Colorburst RIP.

Doyle
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 09:53:05 AM by DYP » Logged
Wills
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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2010, 04:56:55 PM »
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Is anyone with the 9600/7600 using a network card experiencing the same problems as the usb connected printer in Snow Leopard, not sure if there would be anything different but just exploring potential solutions.
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