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Author Topic: Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only  (Read 44717 times)
stillekracht
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« on: December 19, 2009, 06:44:59 AM »
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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only

First of all, apologies for my bad English.
I am from behind the dikes, you see.

Problem:
Clear banding (parallel with headmovement) in black only.
This is not caused by a headstrike or deflected nozzles.
As you can see: The banding is not nozzle related.
Difficult to believe this is software related since the banding is in black only (and in gray with photoblack).
It is not inktube related because the problem is the same with Mat and Photoblack.
When it is inkpressure related one would expect it to be visible also in the colors.

Epson Repair Service guys:
The Epson Repair guys refuse to come and have a look at the machine and problem.
They told me: We can not fix it and we only get paid by Epson if we fix a problem.
They told me: We know of another E9900 with the same problem.
The problem was not solved by replacing the head...

For:
Hardware - Software settings / images / updates / problem description / What did I do so far?
Go to:  
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html

Question:
Any of you have experience with this issue? And solved it?
Or am I doing something wrong.....

Thanks,
Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs Reppel

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Jeff Phillips
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 07:35:29 AM »
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Question:
Any of you have experience with this issue? And solved it?
Or am I doing something wrong.....

   Were you printing with high speed checked?  Make sure you are printing without high speed.  You might also need to add "drying time per print head pass".  I am not sure in the case of the 9900 but it might be under Paper Configuration in the Epson print dialog.  I find I need more drying time for the print heads the darker the prints are.  Good luck...
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stillekracht
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 07:40:35 AM »
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Quote from: Jeff Phillips
Question:
Any of you have experience with this issue? And solved it?
Or am I doing something wrong.....

   Were you printing with high speed checked?  Make sure you are printing without high speed.  You might also need to add "drying time per print head pass".  I am not sure in the case of the 9900 but it might be under Paper Configuration in the Epson print dialog.  I find I need more drying time for the print heads the darker the prints are.  Good luck...

Thanks Jeff,
printing is done without high speed and this not a matter of drying time.
Look at: http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs
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Jeff Phillips
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 07:54:13 AM »
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Quote from: stillekracht
Thanks Jeff,
printing is done without high speed and this not a matter of drying time.
Look at: http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs

  Other than running a nozzle check and increasing the drying time beyond unchecking High Speed I am out of help.  Hopefully someone else has an idea...
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 02:13:55 PM »
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Quote from: stillekracht
Thanks Jeff,
printing is done without high speed and this not a matter of drying time.
Look at: http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs
Sorry to hear about Epson support, although they might be right.  It doesn't look like a hardware issue.

A few  questions.  

The problem is obvious in printed work?  
Have you examined the other colors closely with a loupe ... the problem may be in all colors, but just so subtle it is only obvious in the blacks.
Is this roll paper or sheet paper? If roll, have you tried a different roll to make sure it's not a coating issue with the paper?  have you printed to other types of paper and still see the problem?
When you say quality 3, I assume you are setting the driver to the 3rd choice (720 dpi).  Have you tried higher quality settings of the printer?  have you tried it with Microweave off?
One thing you might try is lowering the vacuum setting, could be the paper isn't moving as evenly as it should.
You might also try increasing the drying time dramatically.  Not to allow it to dry, but just a wild guess is perhaps low pressure in the black ink line might cause this, and letting the head sit between passes may be enough to allow the pressure to stay more constant.

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stillekracht
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2009, 03:42:57 AM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
Have you examined the other colors closely with a loupe ... the problem may be in all colors, but just so subtle it is only obvious in the blacks.
Is this roll paper or sheet paper? If roll, have you tried a different roll to make sure it's not a coating issue with the paper?  have you printed to other types of paper and still see the problem?
Thanks Wayne,
In answer to your Questions:
The problem is obvious in printed work? : Yes indeed.
The problem may be in all colors?: Not at all. They are fine ( ckecked with loupe )
It is roll paper? : It is ... but sheet makes no difference. And tried the 3 steps of vacuum and Epson and Hahnemuhle papers. No results.
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html:
Print Quality: Quality level 3 (720x1440) Microwave on and off; unidirectional (high speed: off)
I printed with quality 3 and 4 and 5. Only in quality 5 there is no visible banding.
(Quality 5 will even give you an acceptable print if you have deflected nozzles)
What I noticed is when the first 1 cm is printed there is no banding what so ever.
I used Epson USFA paper thickness of 0.3 (standard) 0.5 - 0.7 - 0.9 with no effect.
I run out of ideas….

You might also try increasing the drying time dramatically?: I already did. Sorry, no difference.

And: I did tap the cartridges in order to release trapped air bubbles!
No difference.

Matthijs
Problem pictures: http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html

Topic also on:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWi...t/message/93762

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stillekracht
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2009, 10:38:16 AM »
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I added a video on the webpage:
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html
I did change the matblack for a brand new one.
Shaked normally en did the tap thing: The problem is still there...
Take a look at http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html for updates.

I am not giving in, you know, we build dikes...

Read this reaction on this forum:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWi...t/message/93762

Quote:

I have a good technician that does service on my printers and he gave it his
best trying to fix this issue. he had plenty opportunities too, he has already
replaced the head in my printer 4 times, though for different reasons. at this
point I am fairly certain that on site service can't do a single thing to
eliminate this problem.

Epson itself has not been helpful, it is hard to get them to care about it.
especially that this is the issue that is most visible on papers like museo
silver rag or h. baryta, something that they don't really have in their offer.
on their papers you can see it, but they refer to it as a very minor
imperfection and as said before they don't give a crap.

it is true that things in europe work a little bit differently. returning a
printer because of that would be a battle with little chance of success. they
could probably replace it for another one, but then again why bother? they all
have the same issue...

and it is a pity, because other than that it is a great printer and you would be
hard pressed to find anything that good in this price range. or at all.

End of Quote.

Matthijs.
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stillekracht
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2009, 06:16:43 AM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
Sorry to hear about Epson support, although they might be right.  It doesn't look like a hardware issue.

EPSON is going to replace the printhead this week.
They acknowledge it is a hardware problem and know about it (!).
They told me that a replacement of the head is not always solving the problem.
But if they replace the second head for a third one most of the time the problem
is solved....
So I wonder how many heads are going to fall.
At epson production-design level...

I will let you know what happened next.
Posting this issue on:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWi...t/message/93762
obviously helped!

Matthijs.
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2009, 09:26:50 AM »
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I feel bad for your problems but all the 9900's do not have this problem. You are the only one to date that I have heard has this issue.
1 or 2  in 5,000 does not make a major flaw! I hope you get it fixed very soon.
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stillekracht
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2009, 09:56:32 AM »
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Quote from: Dan Berg
I feel bad for your problems but all the 9900's do not have this problem. You are the only one to date that I have heard has this issue.
1 or 2  in 5,000 does not make a major flaw! I hope you get it fixed very soon.

Thanks Dan,

Sorry to say: I think you are wrong about this.
First: On this forum: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWi...t/message/93762
you can read there are others having the same problem.
Second: The majority of 9900 users are probably not even aware of this problem.
They are in the sign bussines and if they did notice, found a workaround.
Third: If Epson in some causes need to replace the printhead two or three times ... before the problem is solved.
In that case you can speak of a major flaw.. in my opinion. As I did.
Five: As you could read: The repair guys told me: we are not comming. We can not fix it.
Do you find it strange I called it a major flaw?

Matthijs
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JasonHopkins
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2010, 11:31:19 AM »
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Hi,

I too have been having this problem for the last month.

on quality setting 4 I get banding in the black channel

on quality 5 I do not.

I dont print lower than quality 4.

I am getting so fed up with this machine!
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stillekracht
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 10:43:17 AM »
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Quote from: JasonHopkins
I too have been having this problem for the last month.

Hi Jason,

Untill now there have been 5 persons looking and testing.
Servicemen and one from Epson.
They changed the printhead and started up.
The printer died. Started up again and it died again.
They reinstalled the new printhead...
Everything worked but..
The problem is still there.
Now they think it might be the mainboard / motherboard.
Or the photoblack / matblack damper.

They are comming back.
The parts they need are not in stock.
So hope this is not going to take to much time.

The printer has at this moment (with the new printhead) nozzles missing in cyaan.
Was not able to get them back....

I am going into the zen mode.

Matthijs
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html




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JasonHopkins
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2010, 11:30:38 AM »
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Quote from: stillekracht
Hi Jason,

Untill now there have been 5 persons looking and testing.
Servicemen and one from Epson.
They changed the printhead and started up.
The printer died. Started up again and it died again.
They reinstalled the new printhead...
Everything worked but..
The problem is still there.
Now they think it might be the mainboard / motherboard.
Or the photoblack / matblack damper.

They are comming back.
The parts they need are not in stock.
So hope this is not going to take to much time.

The printer has at this moment (with the new printhead) nozzles missing in cyaan.
Was not able to get them back....

I am going into the zen mode.

Matthijs
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html

Hi Matthijs,

thanks for this info  - I will be prepared to give this guy stick when he turns up this week.

I made sure that he ordered all parts that could cause issues before xmas due to the Cyan channel going dead.

It wasn't until seeing your post the other day that I realized that had yet another issue with the machine.

So he will be turning up with motherboard and print head, he already replaced the cap and assembly a month ago.

They seem to come completely unprepared as if they think that all the machine needs is a firmware update!

On another post someone mentioned that the ink lines might be loose or broken near the print heads and/or seals.

I just hope it will get fixed this week so I can get printing again.
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DanPBrown
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2010, 04:29:31 AM »
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I was thinking of getting a 7900. Does this problem occur with the 7900 too?
Thanks,
Dan
http://www.danbrownphotography.com
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stillekracht
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2010, 10:01:25 AM »
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Quote from: DanPBrown
I was thinking of getting a 7900. Does this problem occur with the 7900 too?
Thanks,
Dan
http://www.danbrownphotography.com

Hi Dan,

Not necessarily.
Although there are other printers in the 7900 and 9900 series showing this problem.
But, as far as I know, it appears only in very few of them.

When you have installed your 7900, just run the testfile as described on http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html
Your machine will almost certainly be fine.

The 79/9900 is an almost perfect printer when it operates flawless.
I am just the unhappy one with one particular 9900 showing all kinds of flaws they don't seem to be able to solve.
Untill now.

Matthijs
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html




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JasonHopkins
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2010, 10:24:56 AM »
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Quote from: stillekracht
Hi Dan,

Not necessarily.
Although there are other printers in the 7900 and 9900 series showing this problem.
But, as far as I know, it appears only in very few of them.

When you have installed your 7900, just run the testfile as described on http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html
Your machine will almost certainly be fine.

The 79/9900 is an almost perfect printer when it operates flawless.
I am just the unhappy one with one particular 9900 showing all kinds of flaws they don't seem to be able to solve.
Untill now.

Matthijs
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html


Hi Matthijs


Just out of interest when did you purchase your machine and when did you notice the banding start?

thanks,

Jason
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stillekracht
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2010, 10:50:39 AM »
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Quote from: JasonHopkins
Hi Matthijs, Just out of interest when did you purchase your machine and when did you notice the banding start?
thanks, Jason

Hi Jason,

I purchased this 9900 on nov 5, 2009.
In the first two weeks i printed photography without solid black. Great printer.
After being away for 2 weeks I started - after a perfect nozzle check - printing a photo with lots of solid black.
Looking at that print I first noticed there was something wrong. Seriously wrong. A major f#%* up.
I have been using epsons for more than 10 years.. so I know a bit about problems.
This problem is definitely not your standard issue.
I took some days troubleshooting.
I called Epson on dec 8.

So this is probably not something that will happen suddenly after some time.
This 9900 was definitely not flawless when it arrived in my studio.

Matthijs
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stillekracht
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2010, 07:56:44 AM »
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Hi again,

This problem: "a strange wave-like horizontal pattern in black" is still not solved.
The printhead was changed two times.
The damper-unit was changed.
The problem still remains.

This epson 9900 arrived on nov 5, 2009.
The first two weeks I printed photography without solid black.
I went away for two weeks.
After returning I printed a photo with lots of solid black.
And the problem became visible.
After trying to troubleshoot this problem I contacted Epson on dec 8, 2009
They came to my studio on dec. 24 for the first time.
They visited my studio 5 times now.
Untill this moment the problem is not solved.

Any off you have experience with this issue?

Hartelijke groet van Matthijs
Click here for information on and pictures / video of this problem

[attachment=19992:epson_99...k_only_5.jpg]
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Bruce Watson
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 10:54:50 AM »
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These printers are fed under pressure, yes? Could it be that the pressure for the black feed is not constant, or at least not constant enough? Tiny leak somewhere, tiny bit of grit preventing a perfect seal, pressure pump problem, IDK. Just another direction to look.
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bossanova808
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2010, 05:05:04 PM »
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Quote from: Bruce Watson
These printers are fed under pressure, yes? Could it be that the pressure for the black feed is not constant, or at least not constant enough? Tiny leak somewhere, tiny bit of grit preventing a perfect seal, pressure pump problem, IDK. Just another direction to look.

We experience this same issue.

We have found that changing paper types set in the driver has a big effect on it - different paper types work with different papers.  (Means a lot of profiling work!). Fine Art Textured and WCRW seem the two best types in general to minimize the effect while still getting very good results from the printer.  Doesn
't totally eliminate it on pure blacks but it gets to the point where you pretty much have to shine a torch on the page to see the issue.

The problem doesn't occur nearly as much with sheets and I am fairly sure the problem is not abotu ink delivery so much as it is about paper transport mechanisms.

We are also getting dropping out on the cyan channel (not block, the whole channel disappears, pretty sure there is not enough pressure/suction pulling the ink through).  

We have jsut put a service call in for both but I am not sure I hold a lot of hope for their abilities to fix the striping issue.
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