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Author Topic: Plea to Michael: separate place for 35 vs DMF debates  (Read 13304 times)
ziocan
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« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2009, 06:32:15 PM »
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Quote from: lisa_r
I am reluctant to enter this debate, but it seems to me that perhaps a more useful way to segregate the discussions would be by subject. i.e., Fashion/Portraiture, Architecture, Landscapes, Food, etc.  Then you could go where the subject interests you, and see which tools are being used to get the job done. I guess this would bring the focus onto how to go about achieving the end results, rather than on certain categories of cameras. (This especially makes sense when you consider that almost any pro camera these days can be used successfully for almost any purpose. Almost.)
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I agree.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 06:32:41 PM by ziocan » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2009, 10:42:58 PM »
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Quote from: stewarthemley
Like it says in the title, Michael, any chance of removing (banishing?) this endless and pointless debate to its own little space then all the people who find it worthwhile can go there and fight themselves to a standstill while the rest of us can get on with exchanging useful info about MF BACKS? I know we don't have to read them but they crop up often and really don't belong here. Goodness knows how much bandwidth they must waste.


Perhaps some of you kind folks need a history lesson. Anybody here remember when the Medium Format sub-forum got invaded by the former Rob Gailbraith shut down? The main reason Rob shut the forums down was his heavy handed attempts at trying to moderate out "misbehavior" repeatedly failed. People will, as they are inclined to do, get into "dustups" (my version of a shouting match online).

If this sort of spirited debate tends to ruffle your feathers, you really only have a couple of choices as a forum manager...let things go as far and as long as possible with as little heavy handed attempts at moderation and only shut down threads when they spin completely out of control or try to moderate out misbehavior and try to enforce a civil, polite environment...

Rob tried to do the latter up to the point that he gave up in disgust and decided to shut the whole forum down. He "transfered" the forums to a 3rd party that was going to run a clean ship and charge people to be members...yeah, like that would fly. It didn't...

A substantial percent of the old "Gailbraith Forums" came here and started posting here...as I recall, the then "forum regulars" were a tiny bit put out...but Micheal welcomed them with open arms (and little if any moderation–in stark contrast to what his fellow Canadian Rob Gailbraith was determined to do).

Michael is pretty hands off...you know why? He's got other things to do...and this isn't a paid gig so nobody is paying him to put up with any crap from anybody...if a thread get's too heated, it's closed...if a person gets way out of hand, he's banned. Other than extreme edge cases, the forum is live and let live...

If you don't like participating with yet another DSLR VS 60PM medium format back debate, you know what your options are...don't read the thread, don't post to the thread, don't "care" about the thread...engage in the threads that interest you and shut the heck up in thread that don't (yet you feel compelled to put your 2˘ in to).

If you find a person who personally rankles you (as I'm sure I do to some), there's this wonderful "Ignore" feature that allows you to not see ANYTHING they write (unless you actively decide to–and if you do glance, it's your own darn fault if it pisses you off).

DSLR/Medium Format, Canon/Nikon, Mac/Windows, Catholic/Jew all share the same basic tenets...they exist based on a belief system that becomes increasingly difficult to defend or argue. As the emotions increase, the logic and intelligence takes a back seat...

The way to deal with it is don't deal with it...move along and find something else that interests you. If a few combatants want to duel to the death, let them (at least till Mike decides to shut it down).

But unless you want to make your forum management and organization official and YOU want to volunteer (cause Michael ain't gonna pay you) and be in total control of this forum's management (a job I wouldn't want), maybe you all should settle back, enjoy the holidaze and decide for yourselves what YOU want to do...

Happy holidays...
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 11:59:02 AM by Schewe » Logged
Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2009, 11:33:48 PM »
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Perfectly on target, Jeff. Well said.

Eric

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-Eric Myrvaagnes

http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #63 on: December 24, 2009, 12:15:20 AM »
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Quote from: stewarthemley
Like it says in the title, Michael, any chance of removing (banishing?) this endless and pointless debate to its own little space then all the people who find it worthwhile can go there and fight themselves to a standstill while the rest of us can get on with exchanging useful info about MF BACKS? I know we don't have to read them but they crop up often and really don't belong here. Goodness knows how much bandwidth they must waste.

The real solution to this is in:

- getting rid of categories all together,
- making it mandatory to tag all posts with relevant key words
  - more or less automated tagging based on post content,
  - federation of posts tags at the level of the thread,
  - tolerant searching based on the probability of tags appearance in a thread

We could still have apparent categories for those not willing to define their own search criterias, but they would basically sort threads based on the actual content instead of sorting them based on the place where they were started... This is the application of the indexation paradigm shift to the old style catagory based forum concept.

I would develop this next generation forum engine if I had the time...

Based on the new set of rules, as a law abiding webizen, this might be my last post in this forum. I'll come back the day MFDB start to offer live view capability.

OR... we decide to all accept that the largest [virtual] sensors around are those resulting from the use of stitching?  

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
erick.boileau
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« Reply #64 on: December 24, 2009, 12:25:45 AM »
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the best suggestion in this post was  to take a cup of tea
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 01:01:19 AM by erick.boileau » Logged
michael
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« Reply #65 on: December 24, 2009, 02:43:45 AM »
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Jeff – Thanks and Amen!!!

and a safe and healthy holiday season to all.

Michael
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2009, 04:10:19 AM »
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OK. Time to be big enough to admit that my original post was clumsy and offended a few people. Please accept my apology for that. I should have phrased the topic as  something for people to consider, ie, are there too many 35 vs MF battles and do they intrude too often in otherwise constructive discussions.

Criticism of wanting censorship and thought police were, considering the form of my original post, quite justified. Hopefully that will teach me to think before I post. I certainly wouldn’t want to impose my views on people and I think Michael does a great (time-consuming) job in moderating the forum. There’s no way (agree with you, Schewe) that I have the right temperament for that.

The consensus of the responses was, I think, that things are ok as they are. Michael made a slight change to the title but even that upset a couple of people. So I’m happy to go along with how it is. And I promise to be more diplomatic in future. Sorry again and the best of the season’s greetings to everyone.
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erick.boileau
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« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2009, 06:03:34 AM »
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it is not really important stewarthemley
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 01:18:51 AM by erick.boileau » Logged
BlasR
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« Reply #68 on: December 24, 2009, 10:00:32 AM »
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Wow jeff,  

Now can you please tell Michael to change from 185 photographers to 186.

 is only one more, and Christmas is tomorrow.

Here is my reindeer to wish to all Merry Christmas
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bart alexander
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« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2009, 01:05:07 PM »
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Quote from: michael
Jeff – Thanks and Amen!!!

and a safe and healthy holiday season to all.

Michael

Same here Jeff.
And to Michael: thanks for keeping cool and maintaining this forum.
Happy Holidays and a great 2010 for you and the people of this forum.

Bart
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Fritzer
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« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2009, 07:44:26 AM »
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Merry Christmas and all that .

Re. the thread title : I'd welcome a strictly professional MFDB discussion, which excludes not necessarily any comparisons with other formats, but all the 'is it better/necessary/class struggle' noise.

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone not owning or having a degree of experience with MFDBs has much to contribute in this forum section.

But it's a public message board - generously provided and well maintained by Michael - and it attracts all kinds of users .
Not a bad thing, yet with a rather small percentage of actual MFDB users present, it's no surprise the threads aren't always related to professional topics.
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KLaban
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« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2009, 03:36:58 PM »
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I always thought of this forum as being challenging but good humoured.

Sincerely hope the new title and description changes nothing.
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cyberean
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« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2009, 05:26:58 PM »
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Quote
Quite frankly, I don't think anyone not owning or having a degree of experience with MFDBs has much to contribute in this forum section.
say ain't so, maynard ... : o
i ain't got no MoFoDB but once in them blue moons i likes to contributes too ... ; )


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check out the size of my sensor ...
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