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Author Topic: Eizo vs NEC vs Dell  (Read 23625 times)
tgipson
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« on: December 22, 2009, 10:07:20 AM »
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After reading the related topics about monitors that have been posted it seems to me that there are three choices/price points for most folks looking at 24" wide gamut monitors:
1. Eizo CG24xW series for about $2200
2. NEC LCD2490WUXi2 for about $1150
3. Dell u2410 for about $550

As I print more, it is clear I need a new monitor (3 year old Dell 24") so the discussions carry significant practical import for me. I use the Color Munki profiling system to profile my papers, printer, and monitor but the monitor luminance is off consistently. By some reports there is a hit-or-miss with the Dell, but everyone seems to like the Eizo. I am skeptical of the Dell and get swooning spells thinking of getting the Eizo.

So given all the technical discussions and practical experience previously discussed and given that my priority is to get the best PRINT out of my workflow and not necessarily purchasing a monitor for the viewing pleasure of seeing my pictures in beautiful full spectral color:
1. is the monitor selection process basically in the end a situation that if it calibrates well enough to get the print you want, then it's good enough? or
2. is this the lens scenario, where you get what you pay for (i.e. final output print quality is directly proportional to monitor quality)?

I'm sorry if this is rhetorical but value any feedback as my thoughts are not really clear yet on this subject. I am focusing on the monitor piece of my workflow at present and am currently satisfied with the print quality of my 3800 and 4880 so I just need the monitor advice. Thanks again
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pherold
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 12:34:13 PM »
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Quote from: tgipson
my priority is to get the best PRINT out of my workflow and not necessarily purchasing a monitor for the viewing pleasure
Nothing about the monitor will directly affect the printed output.  So given your priority, I would lean toward your #1. (Calibrates well = good enough.  That said, a lot depends on your own personal tastes and what you do in your workflow.  If you don't do a lot of processing of your images, you would not need much in the way of a monitor.  But here is a short list of the things you might have to give up with a lower priced option:
  • Shadow detail
  • Uniformity of color across the screen
  • An accurate soft-proof of what your printed image will look like.
  • Freedom from banding

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tgipson
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 12:50:43 PM »
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Quote from: pherold
Nothing about the monitor will directly affect the printed output.  So given your priority, I would lean toward your #1. (Calibrates well = good enough.  That said, a lot depends on your own personal tastes and what you do in your workflow.  If you don't do a lot of processing of your images, you would not need much in the way of a monitor.  But here is a short list of the things you might have to give up with a lower priced option:
  • Shadow detail
  • Uniformity of color across the screen
  • An accurate soft-proof of what your printed image will look like.
  • Freedom from banding

All issues you mention are important enough to pay money for. I infer that would drop the Dell from consideration. Does the Eizo (at 2-3x the price of the NEC) or NEC avoid the compromises you mention?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 01:09:14 PM by tgipson » Logged
pherold
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2009, 01:16:18 PM »
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I have worked with both the Eizo and the NEC, and either would give you the qualities in the list. Generally the difference with getting an Eizo is longevity.  They are better made with better parts and carry a 5-year warranty.  We have also seen that NEC is a very difficult company to deal with, so I'd be concerned about getting any issues resolved with them.

On the other hand, I fully understand your hesitation to put that much money out.  Could you manage without two inches?  The Eizo CG222W is a 22" (diagonal) wide screen, and is more in the price range of the NEC:
http://tinyurl.com/yb3tbg3
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tgipson
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 01:52:36 PM »
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Quote from: pherold
I have worked with both the Eizo and the NEC, and either would give you the qualities in the list. Generally the difference with getting an Eizo is longevity.  They are better made with better parts and carry a 5-year warranty.  We have also seen that NEC is a very difficult company to deal with, so I'd be concerned about getting any issues resolved with them.

On the other hand, I fully understand your hesitation to put that much money out.  Could you manage without two inches?  The Eizo CG222W is a 22" (diagonal) wide screen, and is more in the price range of the NEC:
http://tinyurl.com/yb3tbg3

Compromising some screen real estate for the quality you mention may be the place to compromise rather than on brand name.
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Dale Allyn
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 09:25:37 PM »
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The NEC 2490 is not spec'd as a wide-gamut display. In fact, I'm planning to add one for the purpose of sRGB work because wide-gamut displays are not great for such tasks. The NEC 2690 and some other models are wide-gamut. Just mentioning so that you don't miss-step.

Many folks have reported very good support from NEC in the U.S., with less than great support from Eizo in the U.S. Some have stated that NEC support in Europe is problematic. I mention this only as a note of caution when evaluating these companies based on service. If it's a factor for you, it may be beneficial to dig a bit deeper than casual anecdotes (including my own).

I have a NEC 2690 Wuxi2 and am satisfied with it so far. Service has been fine (I did need some minor support and it was quickly addressed). And I hear mostly great things about Eizo, and of course their displays tend to be excellent.
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tgipson
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2009, 08:56:57 AM »
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That's helpful information about the 24"NEC. I do realize that the sample size here on the message boards is small when trying to make a decision on service experience. But there is much overall more experience than I currently have and I am grateful to all for the feedback and helping form my final decision.
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photodan
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 04:54:09 PM »
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I have the NEC 2690 Wuxi2 w/included color calibration hardware & software package. About $1300 at discount. So far I'm happy with it. It's great to have the larger screen real estate when working with Lightroom (diagonal screen size is about 25.5"), and I really like the simplicity and flexibility of the color calibration software.

The package is very easy to use (too bad the documentation, as detailed as it is separately for the monitor and for software, is a bit confusing at first in that it doesn't explain how the software overrides some of the hardware settings you can make manually via the monitor buttons themselves). In the included software you choose preset monitor targets and/or create more of your own, calibrate each with the customized included hardware device, and save them. To invoke what you want to use at a computer session,  you just run the software and then select which target you want. That target overrides the monitor profile, used by the OS (at least in Win 7's case) and apps like Lightroom and Picture Window Pro. To change the monitor display just open up a different saved target and the change is made on the fly w/o having to save a file or do anything else.

It has an approximate sRGB target (that you calibrate with the included device, as you would all the targets you want to use).  For when I'll be saving photos for web use or for printing at a lab that wants sRGB files I use that.  I use a different target for when I want to approximate the Adobe RGB color space (for example when I'll be printing on a high end inkjet that can actually print those colors/saturation that aren't in sRGB.  It's easy to switch back and forth between those two or any number of other saved calibrated targets. The software shows you the color gamut of the calibrated target compared to sRGB and Adobe RGB (as well as some other options).

I use the monitor with DVI-D inputs (it doesn't have display port nor HDMI inputs).

For the money it seems to be a good value to me. I hear, as others on this forum have said, that the Eizo is the top of the heap, but the cost of their monitors plus calibration packages was more than I wanted to spend. When I added the cost of a good calibration package to the cost of the Dell 24", the difference in price of about $400 net (say 600 for the dell + maybe 300 = 900), to get a bigger and better monitor was an easy choice for me to make.

Dan
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milt
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 07:53:01 AM »
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"what photodan said" + 1
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gkroeger
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2010, 09:00:13 AM »
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Quote from: milt
"what photodan said" + 1
+2
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tgipson
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2010, 03:26:07 PM »
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That's helpful feedback about the NEC. The one continuing consideration of the Eizo is the 5 year warranty. but a lot more money as you say.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2010, 04:37:25 PM »
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Quote from: tgipson
The one continuing consideration of the Eizo is the 5 year warranty. but a lot more money as you say.

In 5 years, I certainly hope we have better display options than the current CCFL technology.
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Andrew Rodney
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2010, 06:25:14 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
In 5 years, I certainly hope we have better display options than the current CCFL technology.


Yes, and one would assume so.

Although for users that budget new purchases on a 5 year time frame, this is relevant. We have numerous customers who do so. New high end workstation with high end display every 4 to 5 years and they buy the best they can at the time.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2010, 06:46:25 PM »
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Quote from: tgipson
That's helpful feedback about the NEC. The one continuing consideration of the Eizo is the 5 year warranty. but a lot more money as you say.


I would also add the LaCie 324, 526, and 724 monitors to your consideration.

Rough prices:

324 - $890 (24")
526 - $1,290 (26")
724 - $1,850 (24")

Notable is the aggressive price on the 324 (24") and 526 (26"), and the 123% Adobe RGB space of the 724 (widest stated gamut of any standard monitor I know of). We have a 724 in our demo inventory and only with a quick look after calibration, it appeared to indeed have as wide a gamut as I have seen from any display. We hope to do some more testing with this monitor soon.

I feel monitors are an extremely important and under-valued purchase. Editing and tweaking images on the display can be an incredibly critical part of the workflow. If you produce final files on your display, the importance of having an accurate tonal and color representation cannot be overstated.

There are many fine choices to choose from today. I will only say that my perspective is to buy from manufacturers who have a vested interest in the high end, accurate display market. This is narrowed down to 2 choices, Eizo and LaCie, both of whom have a legacy of high end, accurate displays going back years and covering multiple product generations. This can be a factor in terms of support and product evolution, IMO and IME.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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gkroeger
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2010, 09:08:30 PM »
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Quote from: tgipson
That's helpful feedback about the NEC. The one continuing consideration of the Eizo is the 5 year warranty. but a lot more money as you say.
Well, the NEC warranty is 4 years parts, labor and backlight, so it's not much different.
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tgipson
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2010, 11:06:40 AM »
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Quote from: gkroeger
Well, the NEC warranty is 4 years parts, labor and backlight, so it's not much different.
I talked to some radiologists I know and they replace their NEC monitors every 2-3 years. I don't actually know how relevant that is to the wide color gamut monitor discussion since I think their viewing environment is rarely in color. I also did not realize the NEC had a 4 year warranty. It appears to be the practical winner so far for me. I also rarely see the LaCie discussed in recent discussions. I will have to take that into consideration as an alternative to the NEC.
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bjanes
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2010, 11:39:34 AM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
In 5 years, I certainly hope we have better display options than the current CCFL technology.
And as LED backlit monitors are becoming mainstream, prices will come down. Also, LEDs have a very long life.
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NoahJackson
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2010, 12:00:12 PM »
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I may be out of my league here, but my prints are spot on my the Dell U2410. I'm using an Epson 3850 (that's the Asian model of the 3800) and a 7900 with custom paper profiles. My monitor is profiled with a spyder 3 express. For me, and my budget, it works well. I believe the new dell and the Eizo use the very same display type.  I may have bought the Eizo if I could have found one here, but it would have stretch my budget.

Noah
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bjanes
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 12:12:59 PM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix
There are many fine choices to choose from today. I will only say that my perspective is to buy from manufacturers who have a vested interest in the high end, accurate display market. This is narrowed down to 2 choices, Eizo and LaCie, both of whom have a legacy of high end, accurate displays going back years and covering multiple product generations. This can be a factor in terms of support and product evolution, IMO and IME.
Steve Hendrix
That is a good point, but as with audio, high end dealers and manufacturers often demand a steep price for a relatively minor improvement in quality. From your byline and the Capture Integration web site, I see that you are one of those  high end outfits and it is not surprising that you recommend Eizo or LaCie.
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gkroeger
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 12:33:15 PM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix
I will only say that my perspective is to buy from manufacturers who have a vested interest in the high end, accurate display market. This is narrowed down to 2 choices, Eizo and LaCie, both of whom have a legacy of high end, accurate displays going back years and covering multiple product generations. This can be a factor in terms of support and product evolution, IMO and IME.


Steve Hendrix

It's pretty hard to exclude NEC from the list.  They have a dedicated line of monitors with hardware calibration and software. They were the first to introduce a wide gamut LED backlit display, and I have received excellent responses to technical questions from their reps both on this board and by phone. Plus, by all spec, accounts and appearances, the NEC and Lacie 26" monitors are identical.

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