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Author Topic: New "hybrid digital camera" system announced  (Read 6553 times)
BJL
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« on: January 04, 2010, 04:24:47 PM »
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Samsung has finally made the official announcement of its NX "hybrid" system.
News item at DPReview

For me it should either have a more substantial advantage in size and "stowability" over DSLRs (like the EP1, GF1 and EP2 bodies, and the Olympus 14-42 collapsable standard zoom) or offer better video and EVF (like the GH1) --- but it might be the new price leader amongst the "hybrid systems".

By the way, Samsung is one of several companies are now using the word "hybrid" to describe these systems that do still and motion photography with a DSLR-sized sensor, interchangeable lenses but no reflex OVF. So maybe "hybrid digital camera", or Panasonic's wording "mirror-free system" will become the preferred official description, rather than "EVIL".
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 04:28:23 PM by BJL » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 10:08:08 PM »
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Hi,

In my view the mirror based SLR design is a bit archaic. It obviously introduces a lot of mechanical components in the viewing and focusing path which need careful adjustment and can cause problems. In my view electronic viewfinders are the long term solution, with the question being when will they be good enough?

One aspect I'm less enthusiastic about is the design leaving shutter open during lens change.


Best regards
Erik



Quote from: BJL
Samsung has finally made the official announcement of its NX "hybrid" system.
News item at DPReview

For me it should either have a more substantial advantage in size and "stowability" over DSLRs (like the EP1, GF1 and EP2 bodies, and the Olympus 14-42 collapsable standard zoom) or offer better video and EVF (like the GH1) --- but it might be the new price leader amongst the "hybrid systems".

By the way, Samsung is one of several companies are now using the word "hybrid" to describe these systems that do still and motion photography with a DSLR-sized sensor, interchangeable lenses but no reflex OVF. So maybe "hybrid digital camera", or Panasonic's wording "mirror-free system" will become the preferred official description, rather than "EVIL".
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BJL
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2010, 10:47:10 AM »
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Quote from: ErikKaffehr
In my view the mirror based SLR design is a bit archaic. ... In my view electronic viewfinders are the long term solution, with the question being when will they be good enough?

One aspect I'm less enthusiastic about is the design leaving shutter open during lens change.
Agreed. Now that the two biggest consumer electronics companies, Panasonic and Samsung, are working on this and good early sales are surely fueling further R&D for Panasonic at least, some questions are:
1. how much and how quickly can they reduce the disadvantage in AF speed compared to good SLR AF systems?
2. how much and how quickly can they reduce the video lag and other impediments to working with fast moving subjects?
3. when will they make the simple, obvious firmware change to allow the shutter to be left closed when the camera is turned off for lens changes?!
4. when will they offer a good, silent electronic shutter mode, free of mechanical shutter noise?

I am also expecting a Nikon entry to the "compact system" market this year, so maybe it will address some of my wish-list items.
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Ray
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 01:05:22 AM »
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Quote from: ErikKaffehr
Hi,

In my view the mirror based SLR design is a bit archaic.

Absolutely! I've been taking photos as an amateur for 50 years or more. The only camera body that ever gave me trouble and needed repairing was the 5D when its mirror came unstuck.

Admittedly, I'd taken close to 100,000 shots withthe 5D before this happened so I wasn't particularly surprised or dismayed. Nevertheless, that mirror flipping up and down is a mechanical activity which is prone to breakdown. A design without it would be preferrable.

However, when choosing a camera, the type and quality of available lenses should be crucial to one's decision, as well as factors such as noise at high ISO.
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 10:23:48 AM »
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I've seen no "internals" diagrams, but DPReview states that the shutter was a "vertical travel, electronically controlled focal plane shutter".  So, even if they've got rid of the mirror, the mechanical shutter remains.

Also, the EVF (not the rear panel) is of much lower resolution than the rear panel  (640X480 VGA   ) Since the look-through EVF is the important one, why would they compromise that?

Sorry, Samsung.  Nice try.
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BJL
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 02:28:53 PM »
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Quote from: Peter McLennan
... the shutter was a "vertical travel, electronically controlled focal plane shutter".  So, even if they've got rid of the mirror, the mechanical shutter remains.
To be fair, no "large sensor, interchangeable lens camera" has done away with the mechanical shutter yet: Micro Four Thirds and the Leica M9 still use a mechanical focal plane shutter for stills. The rolling electronic shutter used for video does not yet perform well enough for still, apparently. Panasonic has hinted at all-electronic shutter being in its future plans for m4/3 though, if an interview machine translated from Spanish can be trusted.

Quote from: Peter McLennan
Also, the EVF (not the rear panel) is of much lower resolution than the rear panel  (640X480 VGA   )
That was a big surprise to me. With the G1, GH1 and even EP2 offering 800x600, I expected Samsung to at least match that. No stereo and no 1080 line HD was a surprise too. It makes the Olympus approach of outsourcing its EVF panel from an industry leader (Epson) look smarter than Samsung's approach of going it alone. And Panasonic probably has the good stuff in-house, as a major video-cam maker. Imagine what the other video camera industry leaders Sony and Canon can do if they get into this sector with their usual "top two market share or bust" approach.
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bjanes
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 08:27:01 PM »
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Quote from: Ray
Absolutely! I've been taking photos as an amateur for 50 years or more. The only camera body that ever gave me trouble and needed repairing was the 5D when its mirror came unstuck.

Admittedly, I'd taken close to 100,000 shots withthe 5D before this happened so I wasn't particularly surprised or dismayed. Nevertheless, that mirror flipping up and down is a mechanical activity which is prone to breakdown. A design without it would be preferrable.

However, when choosing a camera, the type and quality of available lenses should be crucial to one's decision, as well as factors such as noise at high ISO.
Not only can the mirror mechanism fail, it can go out of alignment and cause focusing error. For many Nikons the autofocus uses a secondary mirror (see here). If one uses a magnifier and focuses on the ground glass, the positioning of the ground glass focusing screen is also critical. With an electronic viewfinder, one would be focusing directly from the sensor. With newer dSLRs live view offers this capability.
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