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Author Topic: Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th  (Read 46033 times)
Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #220 on: February 10, 2010, 04:17:18 PM »
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Getting back to the H4D-40...

...did anyone else get to use one today?

The auto-focus (even without Auto Phocus Lock) seems an order of magnitude better than the H3D, using the same (50-110 zoom) lens, with and without modelling lights.

There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.
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bigalbest
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« Reply #221 on: February 10, 2010, 04:34:15 PM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Getting back to the H4D-40...

...did anyone else get to use one today?

The auto-focus (even without Auto Phocus Lock) seems an order of magnitude better than the H3D, using the same (50-110 zoom) lens, with and without modelling lights.

There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.

Any sample photos, and did you check low light capability?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #222 on: February 10, 2010, 04:56:39 PM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.

What issues with the P65+ are you referring to??? It's been shipping for a year without problems.

Actually "without problems" is an understatement - it's the best back I've ever seen and there is something to be said for purchasing a product which is already been on the market long enough to have a proven real-world track record.

Doug Peterson
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 04:59:50 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

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PeterLindeberg
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« Reply #223 on: February 10, 2010, 05:08:20 PM »
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Hi LL and Dick

Yes, I did try the H4D40 today in Stockholm Sweden!

The Hasselblad D40 seemed faster than my P30+ H2 body and the "True Focus button" did actually work. This function really helps better focusing throughout the image! I did not test the 4 mins long exposure, however the new 3" display is an improvement to the old one - now - for the first time - you can check your focusing on a MF digital back..


B.R


P.L



Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Getting back to the H4D-40...

...did anyone else get to use one today?

The auto-focus (even without Auto Phocus Lock) seems an order of magnitude better than the H3D, using the same (50-110 zoom) lens, with and without modelling lights.

There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.


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bcooter
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« Reply #224 on: February 10, 2010, 05:36:48 PM »
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Quote from: PeterLindeberg
now - for the first time - you can check your focusing on a MF digital back..


B.R


P.L


Add that to the next Hasselblad headlines.   Seriously.

BC
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BJNY
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« Reply #225 on: February 10, 2010, 05:57:10 PM »
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H4D-40 event at Fotocare was snowed out today,
rescheduled for tomorrow Thursday.
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Guillermo
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« Reply #226 on: February 10, 2010, 06:02:54 PM »
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it will be interesting how the h4D 40 will compare to the pentax 645D.....hey they have a countdown on their website as well! and looks like it will have a 40mpix sensor as well.....new rumored price...6500$....

either way....for whatever reason the MF world decided that the only way they could compete with DSLR is with 645...and no other option...
i guess i am so desperate for a "real mf" feel that i shoot manual lenses and an angle finder on my 5DII....

quality keeps coming up here as well: if any client would hire any shooter for pixel quality, it would be so easy to be successful....simply rig up 2 p65+ side by side for sync'd shooting....done...until the next guy does 4...and so on....people get hired for a vision, professionalism, experience, ability to deliver....everything before what they are shooting with....or it is simply their niece with a camera...

i have never seen a 4 or 5 meter print...all large prints i have seen so far have been shot with film....and when looking up close they look strangely soft and blotchy and noisy and so....non digital...but who looks at a klimt with his nose at the canvas? i guess more people then i would think! maybe it's just that the images suck so bad that instead of turning around at the door one has to find something to look for and finds...DETAIL! yeah...

so the h4d60/p65+ is for people who need super resolution...to really get everything out of the sensor the gear has to be on tripod and the mirror lifted....so why the focus thingy? why not a larger sensor? i really don't want to hear about price....if pentax can sell their kodak based thing for 6500.....a rig 4, 5 or 6x the price should be able to have a sensor that is larger? why not put 2 in one body/back? who cares how big the back is, who cares if i have to run it through some software to open it up?

red promised some crazy sensor (they are making a lot of promises but this one is really out there).....6x17?!
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #227 on: February 10, 2010, 06:54:56 PM »
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Quote from: pschefz
so the h4d60/p65+ is for people who need super resolution...to really get everything out of the sensor the gear has to be on tripod and the mirror lifted....so why the focus thingy? why not a larger sensor? i really don't want to hear about price....if pentax can sell their kodak based thing for 6500.....a rig 4, 5 or 6x the price should be able to have a sensor that is larger? why not put 2 in one body/back? who cares how big the back is, who cares if i have to run it through some software to open it up?

red promised some crazy sensor (they are making a lot of promises but this one is really out there).....6x17?!

Pentax and Red do not have shipping (let alone real-world-proven) MFD still systems. Until they do any comparisons are pure speculation.

[retracted to avoid taking the conversation to far off topic]

Doug Peterson
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 09:48:41 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

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pschefz
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« Reply #228 on: February 10, 2010, 07:12:54 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Pentax and Red do not have shipping (let alone real-world-proven) MFD still systems. Until they do any comparisons are pure speculation.

And the idea that you MUST have any digital back on a tripod with the mirror lifted to get amazing image quality is not my experience. Granted I work for a company that sells DBs (as well as Canon) so my opinion will always be suspect - maybe others could jump in to give their conclusions or we could start a new thread as that's not really directly relevant to the H4D-40.

A shutter speed of 1/focal-length results (and good hold-technique) is fine for dSLRs - for digital backs you only need another stop or so (this is ignoring Image Stabalization since my personal use of the 5DII is limited almost exclusively to the 50mm/1.2 and 85mm/1.2 which do not have IS).  

ISO response on a 5D Mark II is great, but I still wouldn't use it above ISO800 (maybe 1600) unless I was looking for that noisier/grungier image. A P65+ can shoot a very clean ISO1600 in Sensor Plus mode that will match or exceed that 5DII ISO1600 file.

By NO means could that 65+ go to ISO6400 and still produce a meaningful file, and you can't buy a f/1.2 lens for a 65+  so if you're trying to shoot reportage at night, or want to experiment with minimally lit evening/night fashion then obviously the 5DII will be a better tool.

However, any implication that modern digital backs like the 65+ must be locked to a tripod with mirror-up to produce stellar image quality does not jibe with my hands on experience.

Doug Peterson
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i actually got to compare some raw files from the P65+ in the binning mode (is that what you are talking about?) and they can't compare to files from the 5DII...not even close....not in noise levels and not in DR...and they are smaller files?

either way...i just saw a shot of mine published in a very nicely printed fashion mag...double page spread....the shot was cropped(!)...shot at 1200...with a 1.4 lens.....i actually added grain after post production (i always do and this had to match shots ranging from 100...to 1200)....

it really does not matter...i don't think MF has to compete on that level...i never did or tried to...that is the point....give me a camera/back that gives me a MF feel/look and lets me shoot with a MF feel (and weight and handling)....

i never touched SLR as long as i shot film....never had a problem....i WANT to shoot MF...not "slightly larger then SLR without any of the advantages of SLR but ridiculous high resolution i don't really need"....i never would have tought to pick up a 645 camera in my film days either...

i understand that until the pentax is released we don't need to talk about it...and actually i am not interested in it at 6500$ either....

the only thing that is remotely MF is the rollei 6008 with a P65+...this is a total custom solution with a dead camera system....and still 645....and about 60000$ for a smallish system....

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« Reply #229 on: February 10, 2010, 07:43:44 PM »
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I don't think soth shooting digital is so much a commercial thing as it is him trying new things. Maybe it's contributed a little bit but I would bet it's not the primary reason.  Not that I know the inside scoop but having seen him lecture twice in the past few months it seems to just be the next step for him....he's been working with video a lot more lately so I would keep an eye for something from him soon in that medium.  Also he showed a project he was doing on digital and it holds up I must say.  

Have to agree about that blue house though.
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bigalbest
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« Reply #230 on: February 10, 2010, 08:46:45 PM »
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Seriously pschefs, do you know what the title of this topic is? If you are so in love with your 5DII then good for you, maybe you should try harder to convince yourself because I could care less. Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time. The reason I'm reading in this particular thread is to get some up to date information on Hasselblads new camera. If you don't like it or are unimpressed I'm sure one post will about cover it. Otherwise try to stick to the topic or better yet go start your own thread (preferably somewhere else), about how above all this you are.
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pschefz
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« Reply #231 on: February 11, 2010, 12:30:14 AM »
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Quote from: bigalbest
Seriously pschefs, do you know what the title of this topic is? If you are so in love with your 5DII then good for you, maybe you should try harder to convince yourself because I could care less. Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time. The reason I'm reading in this particular thread is to get some up to date information on Hasselblads new camera. If you don't like it or are unimpressed I'm sure one post will about cover it. Otherwise try to stick to the topic or better yet go start your own thread (preferably somewhere else), about how above all this you are.


wow...i have been here for years...and i had no clue you were moderating this forum....news to me...but i will let you get back to work now and please make sure you tell people what they should write about...and where....

just out of curiosity: what do you expect to find out about the hd4 40 here? there are demos all over the place and you will be much better off checking it out in person....i will try and do the same tomorrow.....
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« Reply #232 on: February 11, 2010, 02:38:54 AM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Are those available online? I would be interested in checking them out.

Are what available online?

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
How does that differ from the usage ogf 4x5 or 8x10 in the past?

It doesn't.
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archivue
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« Reply #233 on: February 11, 2010, 02:54:48 AM »
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Quote from: pschefz
either way....for whatever reason the MF world decided that the only way they could compete with DSLR is with 645...and no other option...
i guess i am so desperate for a "real mf" feel that i shoot manual lenses and an angle finder on my 5DII....


then you should go with an MF back, and Alpa, Arca, Cambo... platform !
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bigalbest
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« Reply #234 on: February 11, 2010, 08:12:20 AM »
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Quote from: pschefz
wow...i have been here for years...and i had no clue you were moderating this forum....news to me...but i will let you get back to work now and please make sure you tell people what they should write about...and where....

just out of curiosity: what do you expect to find out about the hd4 40 here? there are demos all over the place and you will be much better off checking it out in person....i will try and do the same tomorrow.....

You have failed utterly to make a point. I'm sure that happens a lot.

Now back to H4D40 discussion.  
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BJL
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« Reply #235 on: February 11, 2010, 08:59:11 AM »
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Quote from: pschefz
... for whatever reason the MF world decided that the only way they could compete with DSLR is with 645
It has little or nothing to do with digital: the MF world was moving away from square formats to oblong(*) formats like 645 and 6x7 well before the digital transition: Rollei and Hasselblad were losing market share to Japanese upstarts like Mamiya, Pentax and Bronica, all of which offered mostly or exclusively non-square formats. (The one exception: Bronica SQ, but the 645 format ETR series was Bronica's best seller.) And Hasselblad started its transition to 645 and AF back in the film era.

Digital merely adds a nail to the coffin, since sensors have to be made in a particular shape, whereas the same roll film can be used in a variety of format shapes. So it just becomes more manifest how few images taken on 120 film were being composed for or printed in square format.

Digital has been responsible for leaving behind 6x7 (and 6x8, 6x9, 6x17 ...), due to the vastly greater cost of such large sensors in exchange for IQ improvements that would only be noticeable in too small a portion of photography to make it economically viable. (RED claims otherwise, but let us see what RED actually achieves in any format larger than its current 30x15mm maximum.)


* Nitpick: a square is a kind of rectangle: if you mean "a rectangle other than a square", the best word is "oblong".
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TechTalk
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« Reply #236 on: February 11, 2010, 02:33:51 PM »
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Quote from: bigalbest
Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time.

I agree.

A cruise ship isn’t what you want to go fishing in a creek and a rowboat isn’t a very good way to cross the ocean. Still, some think that all boats should sail in their direction and believe the ones that don’t must have blind captains and fools for passengers.
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #237 on: February 11, 2010, 04:17:40 PM »
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Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time.

Quote from: TechTalk
I agree.

A cruise ship isnít what you want to go fishing in a creek and a rowboat isnít a very good way to cross the ocean. Still, some think that all boats should sail in their direction and believe the ones that donít must have blind captains and fools for passengers.
...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot or, with a view camera, as a full-blown professional camera doing what you would have needed a 5*4 or 10*8 for.
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BJL
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« Reply #238 on: February 11, 2010, 04:32:16 PM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot ...
But it has been declared many times by forum gurus that a point-and-shoot must fit in your pants pocket! On that test, the H4D runs aground.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 04:33:21 PM by BJL » Logged
David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #239 on: February 11, 2010, 05:05:02 PM »
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Quote from: BJL
But it has been declared many times by forum gurus that a point-and-shoot must fit in your pants pocket! On that test, the H4D runs aground.

Depends how big your pants are.
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David Grover
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