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Author Topic: Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th  (Read 47741 times)
TechTalk
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« Reply #240 on: February 11, 2010, 05:34:10 PM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot or, with a view camera, as a full-blown professional camera doing what you would have needed a 5*4 or 10*8 for.

You're correct.

The few (holding the confident view that if it isn't right for their use because it's the wrong color or shape or format or resolution or lacking some sort of absolutely vital feature or function which they require, etc.--then it must be overblown marketing hype) have already come aboard to imply that it is only good as a boat anchor for wealthy amateurs and done so with the mockery and disdain such abhorrent acts of technological heresy deserve. The heresy may be an affront to tradition or the new revolution depending on the current outrage being expressed.

Just thought I would beat them to the boat anchor punch line. Of course, not to worry, every real professional they know already unanimously agrees with their keen and witty insight because their needs are all the same. So they will find another acerbic line of assault to illuminate those misled rich consumers and beginning pros that haven't yet acquired their war weary and battle scarred wisdom.
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mtomalty
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« Reply #241 on: February 11, 2010, 05:46:15 PM »
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Depends how big your pants are.


....or how deep your pockets  :>))


Mark
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TechTalk
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« Reply #242 on: February 11, 2010, 05:50:25 PM »
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Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Depends how big your pants are.

That's why I'm wearing my MC Hammer pants again!

Hammer Pants Invasion Link!
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bigalbest
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« Reply #243 on: February 11, 2010, 09:01:53 PM »
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Quote from: TechTalk
You're correct.

The few (holding the confident view that if it isn't right for their use because it's the wrong color or shape or format or resolution or lacking some sort of absolutely vital feature or function which they require, etc.--then it must be overblown marketing hype) have already come aboard to imply that it is only good as a boat anchor for wealthy amateurs and done so with the mockery and disdain such abhorrent acts of technological heresy deserve. The heresy may be an affront to tradition or the new revolution depending on the current outrage being expressed.

Just thought I would beat them to the boat anchor punch line. Of course, not to worry, every real professional they know already unanimously agrees with their keen and witty insight because their needs are all the same. So they will find another acerbic line of assault to illuminate those misled rich consumers and beginning pros that haven't yet acquired their war weary and battle scarred wisdom.


     
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #244 on: February 12, 2010, 05:28:46 AM »
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...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot ...

Quote from: BJL
But it has been declared many times by forum gurus that a point-and-shoot must fit in your pants pocket! On that test, the H4D runs aground.

I consider that anything with a full auto option (with which you can point and shoot) can be considered a point-and-shoot... but I could sew my think-tank holster on to my trouser thigh...

You can also use H3/4s as dumbbells, preferably as a pair with a 300 and 50 -110 lenses!
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« Reply #245 on: February 12, 2010, 01:16:14 PM »
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Quote from: TechTalk
Of course, not to worry, every real professional they know already unanimously agrees with their keen and witty insight because their needs are all the same.

Now we have "real" professional with Canikon, and the others lol

Quote
So they will find another acerbic line of assault to illuminate those misled rich consumers and beginning pros that haven't yet acquired their war weary and battle scarred wisdom.

I suppose that on a typical car forum, we can read such stupid rant like that :

"I'm a taxi driver, and the new Mercedes Benz is overpriced to me (I can't afford it), and now, just those fucking wealthy dentists can buy this new model (it's well know car makers as camera makers have only "real" professionals as customers lol) !

What the hell ! This company is doing cars for riches and not for real professionals like us ! Everybody knows the needs of "real professionals" like us : 10 seats, not so powerful engine (we just drive in the city !) etc"

lol

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TMARK
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« Reply #246 on: February 12, 2010, 03:59:56 PM »
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Hey Hasselblad sales people:  your snide tone is alienating people.  I hope that's not part of your marketing strategy.  I'm starting to associate the brand with a decidely negative emotional response.  I've worked in advertising log enough to know that is not a good thing.  In fact, this is the opposite to what you want to create.  This from someone who thinks the new True Focus is a good idea, and sees a real benefit in the H as a camera integrated with a back.  

I'm not being snide or critical, I'm just letting you know how things look from where I sit.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #247 on: February 12, 2010, 04:49:39 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
Hey Hasselblad sales people:  your snide tone is alienating people.

David Grover is the only employee of Hasselblad here AFAIK and I can't see any comment he made which is snide. I've always found him to be strait forward, thick skinned, and have a good sense of humor.

Doug Peterson
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« Reply #248 on: February 12, 2010, 05:30:14 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
Hey Hasselblad sales people:  your snide tone is alienating people.  I hope that's not part of your marketing strategy.  I'm starting to associate the brand with a decidely negative emotional response.  I've worked in advertising log enough to know that is not a good thing.  In fact, this is the opposite to what you want to create.  This from someone who thinks the new True Focus is a good idea, and sees a real benefit in the H as a camera integrated with a back.  

I'm not being snide or critical, I'm just letting you know how things look from where I sit.

If you want to know, I'm a rich dentist.

I buy P1, Hassselblad and all the expensive gear !

For a teeth cure, call my assistant ! But I analyze your mouth with a 120 mm macro, that a plus ! At the end, photographer don't get the snide thing
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vandevanterSH
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« Reply #249 on: February 12, 2010, 05:37:34 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
David Grover is the only employee of Hasselblad here AFAIK and I can't see any comment he made which is snide. I've always found him to be strait forward, thick skinned, and have a good sense of humor.

Doug Peterson
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I agree..David Grover is probably one of the least "offensive" people who is also a strong advocate for his product.

Steve
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TMARK
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« Reply #250 on: February 12, 2010, 06:22:55 PM »
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Quote from: vandevanterSH
I agree..David Grover is probably one of the least "offensive" people who is also a strong advocate for his product.

Steve

I can't really determine who works for Blad or is a rabid fan. If my comment is undeserved as to Mr. Grover, I apologize.  

I do stand by my comment, though.  Perhaps its just the fanboys and not a certain unprofessionalism.  I did appreciate the MC Hammer pants comment.
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TechTalk
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« Reply #251 on: February 12, 2010, 11:59:51 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
Hey Hasselblad sales people:  your snide tone is alienating people.  I hope that's not part of your marketing strategy.  I'm starting to associate the brand with a decidely negative emotional response.  I've worked in advertising log enough to know that is not a good thing.  In fact, this is the opposite to what you want to create.  This from someone who thinks the new True Focus is a good idea, and sees a real benefit in the H as a camera integrated with a back.  

I'm not being snide or critical, I'm just letting you know how things look from where I sit.


Quote from: TMARK
I can't really determine who works for Blad or is a rabid fan. If my comment is undeserved as to Mr. Grover, I apologize.  

I do stand by my comment, though.  Perhaps its just the fanboys and not a certain unprofessionalism.  I did appreciate the MC Hammer pants comment.

Hello TMark. I believe that I am the one that has made posts that you find objectionable. I do not work for Hasselblad and never have. I also do not consider myself a rabid fan or fanboy of any brand or product. My attitude is "You may love your stuff, but your stuff will never love you back". However, I do have a long standing appreciation of the tools and technology we use for making photographs. I also have a long standing respect and appreciation for the people that make the products that we use.

I've had the pleasure of using products from, and getting to know people from, a variety of manufacturers. These people have been interesting and intelligent folks with a passion for photography and a genuine interest in the people that use the tools they design, make and sell. So why have I posted comments that you find objectionable in tone and which lead to your characterization of me?

Well... I actually have little interest in internet forums of any kind. I'm old fashioned enough to prefer talking to people. I've observed the unending flame wars that have gone on for years between Mac and PC "fanboys" and don't waste much time reading them. They are unproductive, loaded with misinformation and misleading statements from both sides and I wouldn't consider wading into that kind of cesspool even with hip boots. But photography is nearer to my heart and with some reluctance I have waded in here on occasion.

From time to time I have posted to simply correct some bit of misinformation or comment on the financial aspects of the medium-format market. On other occasions, I have found the frequency or amount of vitriol, directed at Hasselblad by a few, rising to the level where I feel like responding. Where you find my posts objectionable I am likely responding with a tone that reflects that of the posts or posters that I am addressing. Sadly, I realize that I am not rising to their level of commentary but sinking to that level. However, having said that, companies are made up of real people and if in my opinion a company is being attacked in a manner that I find unfair, incorrect, misleading, mocking, condescending, unreasonable, uninformed or in some other way objectionable... I may respond in kind again. Hey, I'm human and have both reason and emotion as motivation.

I would like to be fair and reasonable. If I post a comment that you find objectionable, you can message me privately or post publicly your objection and I will at least extend you the courtesy of reviewing what I have written and either apologizing for or defending what I write. I can say, that I appreciate your concern over the rather nasty tone that can and does develop in any internet forum including this one. That I participate in such exchanges seems, at the time of writing them, more a matter of responding to the internet equivalent of a schoolyard bully and this is not a source of anything for which I take any pride or credit.

The manufacturers that are discussed here (Hasselblad, Phase One, Mamiya, Leaf, Sinar, Rollei and others) have two goals 1) make and sell great products and 2) stay in business. These companies are made up of some great people. They work within limitations both technological and financial that are often not well understood. Of course they are people and are imperfect and make mistakes. I have no objection to objective or subjective criticism of products or companies. But I do object to attacks of the type previously described, especially those that I feel are demeaning, misleading or unwarranted.

OK... I've got that out of my system... for now. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to vent a bit... it's good for the blood pressure.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 12:09:01 AM by TechTalk » Logged
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« Reply #252 on: February 13, 2010, 05:14:48 AM »
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Quote from: TechTalk
Sadly, I realize that I am not rising to their level of commentary but sinking to that level. However, having said that, companies are made up of real people and if in my opinion a company is being attacked in a manner that I find unfair, incorrect, misleading, mocking, condescending, unreasonable, uninformed or in some other way objectionable... I may respond in kind again. Hey, I'm human and have both reason and emotion as motivation.

It's the dark side of the Force ! Fighting the Evil is a dangerous game

It's good to read about passion ! I think we have all a real passion for photography, but as we can see it, it seems that love is sometime exclusive and accompanied with a bit of jealousy.

For my part, I find that the rant against "rich dentist" is offensive and goes nowhere, as the more the people buy a certain type of product, the wider the market is, providing the manufacturers the ability to continue to invest and deliver new products at a better price for all. So, there are no competition between "so called real professionals" and passionate amateurs or artists.

I don't believe either that we can split groups of people by "those who knows better" or by "those who does the best photographs", as small minded people and lack of imagination and taste seem so well distributed in each groups

And I find, if it really works True Focus a great innovation, because focusing is a real issue that bothered me for years with MF.

Best regards
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #253 on: February 13, 2010, 06:27:57 AM »
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Quote from: TechTalk
I've had the pleasure of using products from, and getting to know people from, a variety of manufacturers. These people have been interesting and intelligent folks with a passion for photography and a genuine interest in the people that use the tools they design, make and sell. So why have I posted comments that you find objectionable in tone and which lead to your characterization of me?
There is a distinction between the designers/manufacturers and their sales/PR/support organisations...

with most companies you get the impression that their Sales/PR budget is hundreds of times what they spend on Research and Development...

But Mercedes and Hasselblad seem to concentrate on getting the product right.

...but driving a Mercedes van is easier than getting the best out of a Hasselblad camera, and you cannot walk in to any photo shop in any town and expect to find someone familiar with the finer points of using electronic-shuttered apo-digitars on a Sinar view camera with Hasselblad digital backs.

When I asked Chris Russell-Fish (MD Hasselblad UK) a technical question at the H4D-40 launch in London, he told me that David Grover was the expert.

...and how does the IQ of the 39ms compare to that of the 60? ( I am thinking of getting a CF39¿MS? back as a 2nd and/or backup system for use with my ELD, P2, etc.)

... and if you use a 50MS in multi-shot mode, how do the results compare to using a 50 with a quad-stitch back? I think that one of the significant differences here is that the greater image size with the quad-stitch would give you less DOF.
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« Reply #254 on: February 13, 2010, 06:55:16 PM »
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Quote from: KLaban
Are what available online?

Those many images of yours that could not have been shot with panoramic techniques?

Cheers,
Bernard

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« Reply #255 on: February 14, 2010, 03:41:17 AM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Those many images of yours that could not have been shot with panoramic techniques?

Well, certainly, they are there to be seen. Of those natural world - landscape - captures on line, stitching techniques - I'm not interested in panoramas - could have been used successfully on only one occasion, or rather, used on only one occasion in order to meet my own needs.

As I've already said, over a period of many years, I could count on the fingers of one hand the occasions where conditions would have allowed for successful stitching i.e. conditions with absolutely no subject movement. Perhaps for your own subject matter and in your own part of the world subject movement is less of a problem? Experience has taught me that all too often it's difficult enough to make successful single captures, let alone multiple captures intended for use in creating a single image. Given the choice I'd choose single shot capture every time.

There is a tendency on this and other forums for contributors to imagine that their own choices of equipment/ software/technique are the Holy Grail and all other choices of equipment/software/technique are in some way inferior. I'm genuinely delighted that you've found the ideal equipment/software/technique for your own use, but respectfully suggest, as indeed we've seen from other contributors, that these choices of equipment/software/technique are not a panacea for all.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 03:55:16 AM by KLaban » Logged

BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #256 on: February 14, 2010, 08:09:57 AM »
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Quote from: KLaban
Well, certainly, they are there to be seen. Of those natural world - landscape - captures on line, stitching techniques - I'm not interested in panoramas - could have been used successfully on only one occasion, or rather, used on only one occasion in order to meet my own needs.

As I've already said, over a period of many years, I could count on the fingers of one hand the occasions where conditions would have allowed for successful stitching i.e. conditions with absolutely no subject movement. Perhaps for your own subject matter and in your own part of the world subject movement is less of a problem? Experience has taught me that all too often it's difficult enough to make successful single captures, let alone multiple captures intended for use in creating a single image. Given the choice I'd choose single shot capture every time.

There is a tendency on this and other forums for contributors to imagine that their own choices of equipment/ software/technique are the Holy Grail and all other choices of equipment/software/technique are in some way inferior. I'm genuinely delighted that you've found the ideal equipment/software/technique for your own use, but respectfully suggest, as indeed we've seen from other contributors, that these choices of equipment/software/technique are not a panacea for all.

Fair enough, but I have never considered panorama techniques to be the panacea. I see them as a very valuable tool among others.

On the other hand, many of the images I shoot using panorama techniques have some form of movement in them (water, trees/leaves, clouds, people,...), it is often not a problem when the latest software developments are leveraged. I would just not want anybody to rule out these techniques based on a partial understanding of the value they can deliver.

The attached set contains some examples:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlangui...57600916381270/

Cheers,
Bernard
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