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Author Topic: Toronto / U.S. Travel Outrage  (Read 8658 times)
billrickman
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2010, 06:36:41 PM »
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Another vote for train travel. I live in NYC and said goodbye to my car last year when I moved here. I haven't flown in three years and take the train whenever I can. The bus is the other mode I take. People without a lot of dough ride the bus. It's slow but very affordable.
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bobtowery
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2010, 07:34:07 PM »
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Isn't it generally true that people go to work for the government so they do not have to think?  They just follow a manual, no concern as to whether it makes any sense or not?

Everyone seems to have a story about how they accidentally smuggle something in.

Mine is this - I have a big rolling laptop bag. I flew from Sacramento to Burbank in the morning. Just the normal useless laptop in its own bin.

In the evening, going through security in Burbank for the return trip, TSA says "we'll have to inspect this bag."  Then he undoes a couple of zippers and reaches down in it, and presto there is my leatherman I lost about a year ago!  "You plan on flying with this?" "Well, no, I didn't plan to, but I did this morning!"  Actually they were super nice about it, and my travel companion checked her bag, with my leatherman, so I didn't have to throw it away.

Good thing I didn't know it was in there eh?  First I would have dispatched all the passengers. Then I unscrew the hinges on the cockpit door (with the handy screwdriver part).  Or I just saw the dang door right off with the 3" saw.  HA HA! It is I, the Leatherman Terrorist! Prepare to be multi-tooled to death! I use the pliers to disengage the autopilot....

Friend of mine went through security in LAX. He was going hunting in Mexico. Sat down in the plastic chairs, reached into his bag for his book, and there's a pistol clip full of 9mm bullets.  Just about shat hisself.  He didn't want the airport shut down, so he put it in a paper food bag, and dumped it in a garbage can.

If all these WMD's are getting through accidentally, what could happen with people that are trying?
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Bradley Proctor
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2010, 08:57:08 PM »
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Quote from: bobtowery
Isn't it generally true that people go to work for the government so they do not have to think?  They just follow a manual, no concern as to whether it makes any sense or not?

?? No.  At least not if you plan on going anywhere in your career, just the same as in the private sector.
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BFoto
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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 10:19:10 PM »
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Another vote for train travel...high speed rail.

When in Europe, i would almost never fly.

As for working for the govt - evidently brain washing occurs in the private sector/corporate world equally.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2010, 04:01:30 AM »
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One thing is for sure, the current take on security is ridiculous IMO. It is not only that it is weird so much money is spent on airport security and the way it is conducted is basically only aggravating to the people they pretend to protect without providing a lot of real security and still allowing giant holes.

It seems the only action feared is things happening on board of airplanes...

It is so ridiculous, you would not even know where to begin. Sad thing is that whatever you do, say, post or whatever this seems only to get worse. Chances are higher you get killed by an overambitious airport security officer believing you are a terrorist than actual terrorists. My biggest fear at airports today are the people that are supposed to protect me, the people that get paid from the money we provide by flying in the first place.
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2010, 05:21:08 AM »
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Well the situation is really ridiculous - so much that here in Germany we had Harald Schmid (who is doing a satirical night show - pretty much like letterman in the US) recently made a joke on this:
According to the new regulations and standards passengers with their own natural teeth are supposed to be banned from Airplanes as they could bite the pilot. So people should only be allowed to
enter an airplane if they have taken out their teeth and checked them in with their luggage.  

I add - well this is really opening some new job advantages for older people, as younger people with their complete teeth will not be able to fly anmore, board meetings will happen much more calmly (average age about 80+)
and the secretary will offer any attendants a glass with a teeth cleaning tablet,  talks could be like: damn I canīt speak today because my teeth never left o`hare , they lost my luggage, again.....etc.pp.
So attention kids: if you wanna make career - donīt brush your teeth anymore !

As the Monthy python sung in Life of Brian: just look at the bright side of life, dam di dam didamdidam didam

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

Quote from: Dustbak
One thing is for sure, the current take on security is ridiculous IMO. It is not only that it is weird so much money is spent on airport security and the way it is conducted is basically only aggravating to the people they pretend to protect without providing a lot of real security and still allowing giant holes.

It seems the only action feared is things happening on board of airplanes...

It is so ridiculous, you would not even know where to begin. Sad thing is that whatever you do, say, post or whatever this seems only to get worse. Chances are higher you get killed by an overambitious airport security officer believing you are a terrorist than actual terrorists. My biggest fear at airports today are the people that are supposed to protect me, the people that get paid from the money we provide by flying in the first place.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 05:21:58 AM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

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CJL
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« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2010, 09:50:37 AM »
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Toronto is not alone... the Calgary airport has the same issues, with ridiculously long delays caused by US Customs and Immigration being located in the airport.    It's funny that no other country on the planet feels the need to locate their Customs personnel on foreign soil... if Canada simply kicked these people out of our airports, it would solve most of our security problems.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 09:51:09 AM by CJL » Logged
Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2010, 10:04:28 AM »
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The problem is not US Customs pre-clearnace, which is nice because it means that after your long flight to somewhere in the USA you can just walk off the plane and get your car or whatever without a long line-up to go through customs. The problem is the security in-efficiencies and ludicrous protocols.
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mtomalty
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« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2010, 02:00:45 PM »
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Here's an alternate way to help keep your checked luggage more secure  :>))

http://lifehacker.com/5448014/pack-a-gun-t...e-theft-or-loss


Mark
www.marktomalty.com
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2010, 10:26:33 PM »
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Quote from: Graeme Nattress
The problem is not US Customs pre-clearnace, which is nice because it means that after your long flight to somewhere in the USA you can just walk off the plane and get your car or whatever without a long line-up to go through customs. The problem is the security in-efficiencies and ludicrous protocols.

You're right, but it goes much deeper than that. We've had decades to plan for "peak-loading" high-alert situations with added layers of scrutiny, but the evidence shows that our planners and bureaucrats have done very little to anticipate these eventualities and be ready to handle them without creating massive chaos. Instead, what we are seeing in Canadian airports is a fundamental systemic failure of planning for operational emergencies. Instead, their priorities have been to save money on staffing and maximize revenue from concessions; as well, the basic design of these airports obviously under-estimated security requirements going forward and, from all information gleaned on television recently, there would appear to be considerable confusion amongst the myriad of agencies between which various responsibilities are allocated in ill-defined ways; so we are poorly served in terms of organization, space and people to ramp up the procedures when the threat situation is perceived to have increased. I don't think under current conditions one could sustain a credible argument that we don't need systems to insure that people aren't carrying weapons into aircraft; but what we do need sre smart systems, tightly administered and adequately resourced - and this is what we don't have. The economic cost to the country of this bureaucratic disfunctionality must be extraordinarily high, but there is no incentive/disincentive structure in place for anyone responsible for anything that matters to minimize it. People will stand in line for hours to board their aircraft, flights will be delayed and cancelled, and the people so-called managing these processes will still collect their paycheques as if nothing was wrong.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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jeland
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« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2010, 02:47:51 PM »
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Just came back from 3 weeks in India - the Frankfort Airport currently is on my "list" of airports to avoid. We flew from Trivandrum (normal security) to Mumbai where we had to go through security twice because the regional carriers fly into one airport and leave out of another.  When we got to Frankfort we had to deplane so our plane could be serviced after the 8 hour flight.  They had us go down a closed hallway down to another closed hallway - there was no way any of us could have gone to the "outside world" - no places to eat, NO contact with anyone else. (Fortunately there was a restroom).  They "herded" us down the hallway and through TWO lines of security where they x-rayed everything again, padded us down and went through everything in our carry on.  Problem was there were two big planes the one I was on and one from Delhi - making right at 700 passengers.  We had been screened carefully in Mumbai x 2 and could not have had anyone hand us anything or gotten anything to add to our "stuff" = now here's the big part - would you believe it took FIVE HOURS to clear that security check point.  And as soon as we cleared it we had to go back on the plane - making us 4 hours late leaving Frankfort.  I felt particularly bad for the elderly as well as the small children.
I had just flown through Frankfort in October coming in on a regional carrier and had nothing like this happen.  So beware and watch your connections!  Of course we all missed ours out of Chicago.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2010, 05:21:33 PM »
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Good to know.

I think someone should develop an internet site of "airports to avoid", and make sure the governments and travel industries of all the countries responsible for them get to know it exists.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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feppe
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« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2010, 07:08:03 PM »
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Quote from: Mark D Segal
I think someone should develop an internet site of "airports to avoid", and make sure the governments and travel industries of all the countries responsible for them get to know it exists.

A list of airports to avoid already exists; you can start here.
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mauricio
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« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2010, 07:12:55 PM »
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The thing is...if something happens in one of these airports, you'll have all those people talking on TV telling everyone how bad security was and how they didn't check people on that plane coming from India.

It sucks, yes...I've been in situations like that a few times...not 5 hours but for a long time. Once at Miami International it took forever and I was on a connection as well...coming from Amsterdam and heading to Costa Rica..I couldn't go anywhere...so why all the screening again??? Yes, it happens everywhere. It seems to me that no country trusts the security on the other countries.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2010, 07:51:20 PM »
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Quote from: feppe
A list of airports to avoid already exists; you can start here.

Interesting Harri - sure is a long list, but doesn't talk about the aggravation factor. I think that element remains for people to add depending on their experience.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2010, 08:00:03 PM »
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Quote from: mauricio
The thing is...if something happens in one of these airports, you'll have all those people talking on TV telling everyone how bad security was and how they didn't check people on that plane coming from India.

It sucks, yes...I've been in situations like that a few times...not 5 hours but for a long time. Once at Miami International it took forever and I was on a connection as well...coming from Amsterdam and heading to Costa Rica..I couldn't go anywhere...so why all the screening again??? Yes, it happens everywhere. It seems to me that no country trusts the security on the other countries.

Of course the issue isn't just planes to and from India. The climate of suspicion, panic and mistrust is by now universal. In this respect the terrorists have the world exactly where they want it, at a tremendous economic cost to economies and individuals the world over. If governments thought about this rationally they would devote far more resources to up-stream detection and more efficient airport security procedures so that less of this nonsense needs to be undertaken so awkwardly at departure points. Just looking at it in terms of our world of photography, I can see many photo trips being cancelled because of airport logistics. I've already done it and I'll think very carefully about embarking on any others until some semblance of sanity returns. Other people are thinking likewise in respect of general business travel, and as aggravation grows and travel decreases the airlines and the travel indutry associations (covering many billions of dollars worth of business) should swing into action and try to knock some rationality into these systems - if they are doing so already, it would seem they need to work harder at it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2010, 09:10:35 PM »
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Found it - airport reviews: Skytrax Very interesting stuff here.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2010, 10:31:58 AM »
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Quote
Found it - airport reviews: Skytrax Very interesting stuff here.

Great site (just keep in mind that people who have problems are far more likely to post reviews than people who don't).  I see practically everyone there shares my opinion of CDG (Paris).    

Thanks
Lisa
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2010, 10:55:29 AM »
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Quote from: Lisa Nikodym
Great site (just keep in mind that people who have problems are far more likely to post reviews than people who don't).  I see practically everyone there shares my opinion of CDG (Paris).    

Thanks
Lisa

For good reason - it's one of the worst on the planet.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2010, 10:58:47 AM »
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Oh - one more thing - you're generally right that people are more prone to complain than to endorse, but interestingly on that site, if you look at the relatively good airports, for example Hong Kong, Heathrow Terminal 5, Zurich, Bangkok Suvarnabhumi, Singapore, etc., people do write-in positive reviews of their experience, so it's probably a useful guide, but as always, each person's experience will vary.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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