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Author Topic: Canvas Suggestions  (Read 9893 times)
Ken
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2010, 07:54:06 PM »
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Hi Shawn - I've been printing for decades and had never considered canvas. At the time that I got the 7900, an oil painter friend asked about canvas and that's when I started looking into it. The test subject I used was one of his paintings. His previous experience with inkjet (I mean "giclee") reproductions was not positive, primarily because his work demands highly saturated color and the highest D-Max possible.

Stretching... The BF PC is much thinner than the BF MC, and as someone who has spent almost half a century handling prints with white cotton gloves, I was stunned to see him yank on that canvas to pull it around the corners of the stretcher frame, and then he grabbed the canvas edge with that clamp/pliers gizmo and pulled the canvas like he was crowbarring nails out of a crate. I KNEW I'd hear a loud r-r-r-ip if not with this pull, then certainly with the next. Apparently my expression  prompted him to say, "I like this canvas."
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 12:00:18 PM by Ken » Logged
KenBabcock
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2010, 08:11:12 PM »
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Quote from: Shawn
Hi All,

A very timely topic.

As a background I'm printing with a Epson 9880 that I have had for about two years...with many thanks to this forum for help in selecting it and answering my questions while I was shopping for a printer. I'm printing mainly on canvas, repros of my paintings and other artist works.

I'm currently looking to switch to a new canvas. I have tried Epson, Hp Pro Matte, something called "Universal" canvas and have not been pleased with the results, mainly due "ink rub" and cracking while stretching. So far from what I have found online Breathing Colour seems to be on top. I have yet to test it but was looking to order today. I have read that in combo with Glamour II there is no cracking while stretching?

I have been using a Krylon Uv Clear coating to finish similar to what I would use on my original oils and acrylics...The look is terrific but it does not stand up to gallery wrap on my canvas stretching machine. (Build a homemade model if anyone is ever interested in doing so...bit of work but I can stretch a 12 x 16 canvas in under a minute, side staple or gallery wrap, and up to 36" wide).

Has anyone purchased directly from Amplis Foto? I found them online yesterday but thought they sounded like they would not sell direct to business but where a distributor.

I expect to be trying out some samples next week and will check back to see if there are any new updates...

Ken it sounds as though you are going through a similar search. Hope to hear how you progress.
best of luck,

Shawn
Whalen Fine Art & Framing

I am going through a similar search, but for various reasons.

Currently I use a matte canvas from Canon (not Canson).  It is really a fabulous canvas, but does have some downside too.  It is extremely bright white, and I love the texture.  It is the closest inkjet canvas to artists canvas I have found.  The only thing I dislike about the Canon canvas is that it is very, very stiff canvas.  When I stretch it I have to soak it with water to get it to flex and become pliable.  Then I am able to stretch it without cracking.  If I don't soak it, the moment I wrap it around that first angle it'll crack like crazy.

I mentioned before about the cost of canvas here in Canada.  What I'm searching for is something with some texture, nice and white, pliable and decent prices.  I can't seem to find the complete package here.

I do plan on trying the Lyve canvas shortly (over $200 here with shipping for 24").  I contacted Fredrix for some samples but they have basically ignored me.

Like you, Shawn, I finish my canvas prints with a product from Krylon too.  Leaves a nice satin finish that clients love.  I'll also suggest that you try to wet the canvas before stretching to prevent the cracking, assuming you are using a water resistant canvas.

Let us know what samples you receive and how it works out.  I'm interested in sharing our canvas experiences with each other since we're looking for the same thing.

I should also mention that I paint too and reproduce my work as well.  Most on here are photographers I believe, so it's nice to see another fellow artist here.

Ken
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 08:12:56 PM by KenBabcock » Logged
Shawn
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2010, 08:39:40 PM »
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Quote from: KenBabcock
I am going through a similar search, but for various reasons.

Currently I use a matte canvas from Canon (not Canson).  It is really a fabulous canvas, but does have some downside too.  It is extremely bright white, and I love the texture.  It is the closest inkjet canvas to artists canvas I have found.  The only thing I dislike about the Canon canvas is that it is very, very stiff canvas.  When I stretch it I have to soak it with water to get it to flex and become pliable.  Then I am able to stretch it without cracking.  If I don't soak it, the moment I wrap it around that first angle it'll crack like crazy.

I mentioned before about the cost of canvas here in Canada.  What I'm searching for is something with some texture, nice and white, pliable and decent prices.  I can't seem to find the complete package here.

I do plan on trying the Lyve canvas shortly (over $200 here with shipping for 24").  I contacted Fredrix for some samples but they have basically ignored me.

Like you, Shawn, I finish my canvas prints with a product from Krylon too.  Leaves a nice satin finish that clients love.  I'll also suggest that you try to wet the canvas before stretching to prevent the cracking, assuming you are using a water resistant canvas.

Let us know what samples you receive and how it works out.  I'm interested in sharing our canvas experiences with each other since we're looking for the same thing.

I should also mention that I paint too and reproduce my work as well.  Most on here are photographers I believe, so it's nice to see another fellow artist here.

Ken

Thanks Ken... I will do.

Just curious are you "Gallery Wrapping" your image, with rear stapling, or side stapling for framing? I have heard that the "cracking" is more related to the surface finish product than the ink or the substrate. Most of my problems show on the wrapped images. As I said earlier, I have built a canvas stretching machine that takes a lot of the effort out of this work but, whether with it or by hand the cracking appears, especially on darkly print areas.

I'm fortunate to have a full framing studio here as well so covering the areas during framing is not an issue but I have an order of 45-75 pieces to supply 16" x 24" and I really don't want this to be an issue with them. All are to be stretched and gallery wrapped. (This is also the reason for the stretching machine!)

This project is what has prompted my decision to try the Breathing Colour (yes I Canadianized that!) products.

I have sent off for info from Vistek, and from Amplis Foto but have not received as reply as of yet...its only been a day or so.

Although this forum has been of great help to me..it does seem that painting reproduction has its own problems as well. However, without these photographers guys here, I wouldn't have half the info I have now to create these Giclees (that's for the artist, painters), oops I mean injet prints. Thanks greatly photo guys..and girls!

I'll try to post my results in the next few days....most likely next week when I get some samples. Ken Babcock,(I believe there are two Kens on this thread?) feel free to google my website, (my new site should be up in a week or so but the old one still has contact info), and email me any questions you may have. I do have a circle of artists/painters, who are running through similar issues. Or post here to share with all.

All the best,

Shawn
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Colorwave
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2010, 02:03:34 AM »
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Shawn=
I'm interested in your DIY stretching machine.  I didn't see anything about it on your website.  Have any photos of it?
FWIW:  I use BC Chromata White for art reproduction work and really like it.  No cracking if I coat it with Glamour II first.  Nice texture.  I haven't seen much difference between the Chromata and the Lyve (for additional $), so I've stuck with the tried and true for me.
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KenBabcock
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2010, 08:36:24 AM »
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Shawn - I gallery wrap and staple on the back, unless the client specifically requests something different.

I was thinking last night when I went to bed that I'll probably end up sticking with the Canon canvas and using my current methods to prevent cracking etc...  I think I'll give the Chromata or Lyve a try just for the heck of it, but I believe I'll be paying roughly double what I pay now for essentially the same thing.  If I don't see any added benefit from the Breathing Colour line I won't use it.  Hard to justify price increases to Canadian customers who already pay more than those in the US.

My next search will be for new photo paper.  I have a new client that shoots mainly weddings and sells a lot of prints.  Again, the whole Canadian price thing is wreaking havoc.

Looking forward to your review of the Breathing Colour samples.

Ken
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2010, 09:01:06 AM »
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I'm a real beginner, but I have made the experiment;
All coated with Glamour 2 mixed 1/2c gloss 2Tb matte 1/2c distilled water minimum 3 coats more is better for me, I like piling on the finish, I don't mind topgraphy
#1 Breathing Color Lyve
#2 Hahnemuhle Monet
#3 Hahnemuhle Daguerre

The Breathing Color Lyve has the nicest color to my eyes,  really sharp and bright,
the others are fine and just beautiful,
but for the same money I'll be using Lyve,
I haven't tried any others though.
IDK but the texture of Lyve is pretty high,
and it doesn't fll up so you can't tell it's canvas when you coat it.
Just my observation between lyve, monet, and daguerre.
I had a roll of chromata white,
I like lyve better. Just brighter and what I think looks best.
thank you,
Rocco
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Shawn
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2010, 09:28:06 AM »
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Quote from: Colorwave
Shawn=
I'm interested in your DIY stretching machine.  I didn't see anything about it on your website.  Have any photos of it?
FWIW:  I use BC Chromata White for art reproduction work and really like it.  No cracking if I coat it with Glamour II first.  Nice texture.  I haven't seen much difference between the Chromata and the Lyve (for additional $), so I've stuck with the tried and true for me.

I do have some photos and instructions I sent to a friend of my who was considering building one...Mine is sort of a "prototype" build and uses manual toggle clamps to achieve the action. I'm working on a new improved version but must admit even my first go round worked well..once one gets used to it.

I'll add a page to my website either later today or on the weekend so you can have a look. It does take some mechanical skills to build and I would say engineering, but I'm more artist than engineer!

The only or main problem I have had is with the cracking described in previous posts...thanks for the info on the BC Canvas..it should solve the issue.
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Inanda Images
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2010, 11:34:30 AM »
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Hi Ken;
You can reach the Customer Service Manager of Sunrisepc at 1-866-770-7721. I was able to get a icc profile from BF Inkjet in about 48 hours and a week later was able to spend a hour on the phone with one of their factory salesmen who supplied a lot of information and data. I also mentioned to him their poor customer service was a PITA. This canvas is still the most popular among my clients. Contact me if you want the email of the support of BF.
My understanding is that Amplis Foto is the distributor for Ilford now in Canada. I have not dealt with them yet but I still have a few rolls of Glaerie Gold in stock.
Now I have a question. I love d-max of the black and texture of the print on IGG paper but I also miss the touchable black you can generate with MK inks on matt paper. I am still a huge fan of Somerset Velvet so I am considering switching back to MK ink. I am considering finding an alternative to the IGG in the matt ink range. This leads to MK canvas. Is anyone printing with MK canvas and what are your experiences?
I can also attest to the framer observing my expression as he worked the print around the frame, my eyes got big to say the least.
Mark Prins
Inanda Images
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Shawn
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2010, 07:38:15 PM »
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Quote from: Colorwave
Shawn=
I'm interested in your DIY stretching machine.  I didn't see anything about it on your website.  Have any photos of it?
FWIW:  I use BC Chromata White for art reproduction work and really like it.  No cracking if I coat it with Glamour II first.  Nice texture.  I haven't seen much difference between the Chromata and the Lyve (for additional $), so I've stuck with the tried and true for me.

Just a quick update on the canvas stretching machine. I set up a quick demo page on my website.
Canvas Machine

If the link doesn't work go to my site, Visit My Website and on the intro page "mouseover" and click on the image of the great blue heron...the hidden hot link there should take you to the page. It is set up for members of this site but not part of the public viewing pages on my site.
Comments are welcome, but please be polite about my engineering, or lack thereof.  
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KenBabcock
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2010, 11:45:25 AM »
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Quote from: Inanda Images
Hi Ken;
You can reach the Customer Service Manager of Sunrisepc at 1-866-770-7721. I was able to get a icc profile from BF Inkjet in about 48 hours and a week later was able to spend a hour on the phone with one of their factory salesmen who supplied a lot of information and data. I also mentioned to him their poor customer service was a PITA. This canvas is still the most popular among my clients. Contact me if you want the email of the support of BF.
My understanding is that Amplis Foto is the distributor for Ilford now in Canada. I have not dealt with them yet but I still have a few rolls of Glaerie Gold in stock.
Now I have a question. I love d-max of the black and texture of the print on IGG paper but I also miss the touchable black you can generate with MK inks on matt paper. I am still a huge fan of Somerset Velvet so I am considering switching back to MK ink. I am considering finding an alternative to the IGG in the matt ink range. This leads to MK canvas. Is anyone printing with MK canvas and what are your experiences?
I can also attest to the framer observing my expression as he worked the print around the frame, my eyes got big to say the least.
Mark Prins
Inanda Images

Thanks, Mark.

Yes, if you wouldn't mind could you provide me with the e-mail for the BF support?  It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken
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Shawn
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« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2010, 10:46:54 AM »
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Quote from: KenBabcock
Shawn - I gallery wrap and staple on the back, unless the client specifically requests something different.

I was thinking last night when I went to bed that I'll probably end up sticking with the Canon canvas and using my current methods to prevent cracking etc...  I think I'll give the Chromata or Lyve a try just for the heck of it, but I believe I'll be paying roughly double what I pay now for essentially the same thing.  If I don't see any added benefit from the Breathing Colour line I won't use it.  Hard to justify price increases to Canadian customers who already pay more than those in the US.

My next search will be for new photo paper.  I have a new client that shoots mainly weddings and sells a lot of prints.  Again, the whole Canadian price thing is wreaking havoc.

Looking forward to your review of the Breathing Colour samples.

Ken

Been a while but I have had time to try out my new canvases..Here are my results to date.

I received no reply from Vistek but did have a prompt reply from Amplis Photo in regards to the Breathing Color products. I have completed 25 16" x 24" canvas prints with the new materials and am very impressed with both the BC Canvas, Chromata White, and the Glamour II product.

The ICC profiles used seem much better for colour accuracy and better blacks then the ones I was using for the Epson canvas. I rolled the Glamour coating as directed and although it does take some getting use to it proved very efficient. I did, however, dilute the product at a higher ratio then suggested on the Breathing Color site.

The most impressive part came when I commenced with the stretching...no scuffs or cracking at all! I folded and heavily creased the canvas for alignment on the stretcher bars, and once placed in the canvas stretching machine, a tight stretch was achieved with ease.

I have no doubt to date the combination of the BC canvas, and veneer product to be the best I have found. The service and shipping, from Amplis, were prompt and very courteous. Nice to have a great local Canadian source, for the BC products. (I'm located just northeast of Toronto)

I'm on my third roll of canvas now and am going to place another order to try the BC Lyve canvas next.

It is great to be able to comfortably handle, fold, crease, the canvas without any fear of print damage.

Hope this info in of use to others on the site...I spent many hours researching this forum and others on this topic and can now confirm what many have said.
Back to printing now....
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