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Author Topic: PC running mac OS  (Read 5957 times)
BobShram
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« on: February 11, 2010, 01:38:35 PM »
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My wifes mac had a key board go down, my PC key board worked fine once it logged it in. The hard drives seem to be the same, I was wondering if you built a PC and ran a mac OS on it would it work or are there some hardware execptions or maybe the OS is not allowed to run on it. Does any one have any knowledge on this.
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k bennett
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 03:53:43 PM »
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http://lifehacker.com/348653/install-os-x-...acking-required
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Equipment: a camera and some lenses.
AndreasSchmidt
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 03:57:25 PM »
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There are two problems:
- first: MAC OS uses OpenFirmware to boot instead of the traditional BIOS on PC. There are emulators available (sometimes even complete PCs with compatible hardware, usually until Apple closes the shop...). So far I know no way using virtual maschines (would be easier).
- second: legal issues. MAC OS may only be used legally on Apple hardware. So even if you manage to get such an emulator to work, it's not legally possible to use MAC OS on it. Though it's easy, just buying an update DVD is said to work.

Andreas - who also really would like to use MAC OS parallel, but no way so far...
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mmurph
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 06:18:30 PM »
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A bit of discussion on this at the link, from many angles, that I found less biased than most (they usually turn into flame wars.)  Including **some** of the comments:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/columns/m..._virtualization


Just don't attribute any specific "attitude" you read there to me personally.  I'll remain agnostic on this one!  

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BobShram
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 07:32:07 PM »
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Interesting. I'm happy with what I've got, maybe if I wait a few years it will be easyer.
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francois
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 01:28:11 AM »
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Quote from: AndreasSchmidt
There are two problems:
- first: MAC OS uses OpenFirmware to boot instead of the traditional BIOS on PC. There are emulators available (sometimes even complete PCs with compatible hardware, usually until Apple closes the shop...). So far I know no way using virtual maschines (would be easier).
Current Intel-powered Macs use EFI. Open Firmware was used on PPC-powered Macs such as G5s.

Hackintosh.com provides interesting info on PC hardware running Mac OS X.
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Francois
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 08:14:14 AM »
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What you CAN do is buy a Mac and run Windows OS on it, not an emulation but a full bootable version.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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mmurph
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 10:08:24 AM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
What you CAN do is buy a Mac and run Windows OS on it, not an emulation but a full bootable version.

So we should reward Apple for their restrictive license agreements? The **technical** part of virtualization or dual boot is not hard - look at the Hackintoshes.

From the link I posted above:

Even though it means absolutely nothing from a business standpoint, it is a little unfair that Apple users get the best of both worlds--OS X and a virtualized Windows operating system, should they so choose. It's tempting to point to Microsoft and make some snide comment about it actually being the good guy in this situation. Still, it's great to see a company that doesn't fear the proliferation of its operating system regardless of underlying platform.

Will Apple change its ways? ....... That's not going to happen--no way, no how.



Too much money in hardware for Apple - and the status quo.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 10:10:09 AM by mmurph » Logged
BobShram
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 03:46:06 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
What you CAN do is buy a Mac and run Windows OS on it, not an emulation but a full bootable version.

Mac key pad $49.95, Windows key pad that works on Mac $24.49 or cheaper. Let me think about that for a few seconds
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 03:47:00 PM by BobShram » Logged
mmurph
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2010, 05:24:45 PM »
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Hey Jerry, I don't mean to start a war here, there are plenty of others available  ....

I have been turning this over again and again. I can see both sides of Apples strategy. But I do feel a bit "gouged" sometimes.

In 1998, I bought a Mamiya 7II body. In the USA it was $3,000. In the UK, from an authorized dealer, with 2 day shipping to the US, it was $1,500 US.  

But, but, but ... no US warranty!  OK, so I'll buy 2, and have a spare **if** one needs to go to Canada (40 miles for me) for repair .....  

Great equipment, my favorite camera ever. But sometimes you get that feeling that the cost/benefit is a bit skewed.  

Cheers!
Michael
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 05:26:26 PM by mmurph » Logged
jerryrock
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2010, 06:25:32 PM »
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Michael,

I was responding to the OP's question, by pointing out that Apple built computers can run both operating systems. There is no "virtualization" required in fact you don't even need the Mac OS to install and run Windows on an Apple machine. They are built to a higher standard than the typical PC available on the market. If the goal is the ability to run both Mac and Windows software on one machine, than the Mac is the computer of choice.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2010, 06:58:55 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
Michael,

I was responding to the OP's question, by pointing out that Apple built computers can run both operating systems. There is no "virtualization" required in fact you don't even need the Mac OS to install and run Windows on an Apple machine. They are built to a higher standard than the typical PC available on the market. If the goal is the ability to run both Mac and Windows software on one machine, than the Mac is the computer of choice.

Firstly, that's rubbish that Apples are built to a higher standard than typical PCs.  Typical from whom?  HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Alienware, custom built?  Apples are no better or worse than average, just sometimes more expensive although usually in a similiar ball park with the better PC brands.  Accessories, though, are expensive by comparison.

Secondly, it's not a question of Mac being the computer of "choice" - there is no choice because Apple won't allow OS X to be run on hardware other than their own, even though it's technically no big deal.

A Mac would be a good choice for many reasons, but let's stick to facts rather than tout cool-aid marketing lines.
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jerryrock
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 11:03:51 AM »
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Quote from: Farmer
Firstly, that's rubbish that Apples are built to a higher standard than typical PCs.  Typical from whom?  HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Alienware, custom built?  Apples are no better or worse than average, just sometimes more expensive although usually in a similiar ball park with the better PC brands.  Accessories, though, are expensive by comparison.

Secondly, it's not a question of Mac being the computer of "choice" - there is no choice because Apple won't allow OS X to be run on hardware other than their own, even though it's technically no big deal.

A Mac would be a good choice for many reasons, but let's stick to facts rather than tout cool-aid marketing lines.


I see you have added a lot to to the topic. If you do not own an Apple computer then your opinion is rubbish.  My opinion is based on 16 years experience with building and operating PC's as well as 4 years experience with the iMac, MacPro and Macbook Pro.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 12:12:13 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
I see you have added a lot to to the topic. If you do not own an Apple computer then your opinion is rubbish.  My opinion is based on 16 years experience with building and operating PC's as well as 4 years experience with the iMac, MacPro and Macbook Pro.

That doesn't mean you're not an Apple fanboy. I own Apple and non-Apple computers too, and have used both personally and professionally. Apples are built better than some no-name mystery meat from the Far East, but Apple came in third behind Asus and Lenovo in overall hardware reliability last year. Apples are no better when it comes to software reliability, either; just look at the still-unresolved cluster-f**k regarding printing profiling targets with Snow Leopard.

The only reason Apple is "better" for running dual operating systems is because Apple is a bigger corporate a$$hole than Microsoft and won't allow their OS to run on non-Apple hardware.
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John.Murray
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 07:34:11 PM »
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I'll readily agree that Apple's build quality generally is better than the majority of PC's, the selected parts and performance performance certainly is not:

For $800:
From Apple
Mac Mini - 2.5Ghz Dual Core 3MB cache 1033Mhz FSB, 320GB 5400RPM drive (they still make these???), 4GB RAM, NVidia 9400M mobile chipset, OS X

From Newegg
Intel DG451D Mainboard, 2.66 Quad Core CPU 4MB cache 1666 FSB, 300GB 10,000RPM drive, 4GB RAM, Nvidia 9600 256MB, Win 7 Home Premium 64

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Farmer
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2010, 02:04:34 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
I see you have added a lot to to the topic. If you do not own an Apple computer then your opinion is rubbish.  My opinion is based on 16 years experience with building and operating PC's as well as 4 years experience with the iMac, MacPro and Macbook Pro.

I added some debunking of a common myth.

I have owned Apple computers (dating back to my first being an Apple IIe) and have owned and been using personal computers since the Z-80 processor models (1980 for me).  Manufacturers that I have used include, in no particular order, Dick Smith, Tandy, Microbee (self assembly Z-80 machine but I didn't assemble it), Apple, Texas Instruments, Atari, Commodore, BBC, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, Asus, Acer and various self-constructed PCs (my first self-assembly was adding components to a 286 on an Amiga card circa 1991 - a math co-pro and a video card - with the first complete build of a PC in 1992).

My opinion comes from direct experience and from that of colleagues and friends with direct experience.

Jonathan and Joh readily debunk your assertions, too, which supports my opinion.

Enjoy.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2010, 03:16:09 PM »
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Hi,

Yes this is a very good way to put it. On the other hand, the Mac Mini is small, silent and energy efficient.

Apple is very good at packaging standard components in an exclusive way, a little bit like Nike shoes, Swiss Watches and so on. It's about perceived value.

The other issue is that the Mac is a well integrated platform. If you buy a computer from Newegg I presume that keeping all drivers for all cards your responsibility. Apple can support the whole platform.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: Joh.Murray
I'll readily agree that Apple's build quality generally is better than the majority of PC's, the selected parts and performance performance certainly is not:

For $800:
From Apple
Mac Mini - 2.5Ghz Dual Core 3MB cache 1033Mhz FSB, 320GB 5400RPM drive (they still make these???), 4GB RAM, NVidia 9400M mobile chipset, OS X

From Newegg
Intel DG451D Mainboard, 2.66 Quad Core CPU 4MB cache 1666 FSB, 300GB 10,000RPM drive, 4GB RAM, Nvidia 9600 256MB, Win 7 Home Premium 64
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2010, 04:45:50 PM »
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Quote from: ErikKaffehr
The other issue is that the Mac is a well integrated platform. If you buy a computer from Newegg I presume that keeping all drivers for all cards your responsibility. Apple can support the whole platform.

This isn't really true. Apple only supplies Apple software and driver updates. If you want updates for Office, you have to use a separate update process to get them from Microsoft. If you want updates for Adobe software, you have to go to Adobe. OTOH, Microsoft supplies drivers for thousands of third-party hardware devices and supports them via Windows Update. If you have third-party hardware attached to your computer, you're more likely to get drivers for it from Microsoft than Apple.
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jerryrock
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2010, 05:25:47 PM »
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Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
Apples are built better than some no-name mystery meat from the Far East.

My point exactly.

Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
The only reason Apple is "better" for running dual operating systems is because Apple is a bigger corporate a$$hole than Microsoft and won't allow their OS to run on non-Apple hardware.


The reason really doesn't matter, it's best in this category.

Apple is also the best in the market for technical support.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/a...rvice-rankings/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10305640-37.html

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Gerald J Skrocki
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jerryrock
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »
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Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
This isn't really true. Apple only supplies Apple software and driver updates. If you want updates for Office, you have to use a separate update process to get them from Microsoft. If you want updates for Adobe software, you have to go to Adobe. OTOH, Microsoft supplies drivers for thousands of third-party hardware devices and supports them via Windows Update. If you have third-party hardware attached to your computer, you're more likely to get drivers for it from Microsoft than Apple.

Third party hardware support from Microsoft has always been sketchy at best. It is never the latest driver update and most professionals never use Microsoft update for 3rd party software.
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Gerald J Skrocki
skrockidesign.com
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