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Author Topic: Snow Leopard 10.6.3 - Colour Management Fix ?  (Read 22125 times)
Schewe
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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 04:57:08 PM »
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Quote from: Marco Ugolini
Help me here: the application or driver are not written correctly for the OS's new printing path, but that is Apple's fault?


Fault? No...
Responsibility? Yes...

Adobe "used" to hack around bugs and issues in the older print path but following Apple instructions to NOT hack around the new print path (called Tioga I believe), Photoshop CS4 is restricted to doing what Apple told Adobe to do for printing in CS4.

Epson, while producing new Leopard (and Snow Leopard) print drivers were also trying to follow Apple's APIs regarding ColorSync compatibility...seems they didn't quite get it right...but there were no hacks around the issues in CS4 so, as a direct result, you can't reliably output color management targets to certain Epson printers from Photoshop CS4...the work around is to intentionally tag the file with a profile so that Photoshop CS4 can work around the impossibility of sending an untagged file though the Apple print and ColorSync pipeline...

So, Apple's fault? Apple was the one forcing a change in the APIs and forcing new applications and drivers to follow those APIs. So, if you want to know who was responsible, I would point to Apple. Wouldn't you?
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Peter S
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 05:01:46 PM »
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So what should a simple user like me do?  I have an iMac running Leopard 10.5.8.  I have LR2 and Beta 3 installed (but have not tried it for printing).  I haves CS4.  I have printed happily using LR2 and CS4.  So far I have NOT installed Snow Leopard because I keep reading about all these problems.

Am I best sticking with what I've got and waiting for this problem to be solved?  Am I worrying about nothing?

Peter
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digitaldog
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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 05:13:59 PM »
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Quote from: Peter S
So what should a simple user like me do?  I have an iMac running Leopard 10.5.8.  I have LR2 and Beta 3 installed (but have not tried it for printing).  I haves CS4.  I have printed happily using LR2 and CS4.  So far I have NOT installed Snow Leopard because I keep reading about all these problems.

The problems primarily being discussed here concern those printing targets for building ICC profiles. Do you have that need? If not, move on and upgrade if you wish. And even if you do need to print such targets, there are workarounds. IOW, while it would be nice if this all got worked out, its not a really big deal.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 05:24:39 PM »
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Quote from: Peter S
So what should a simple user like me do?  I have an iMac running Leopard 10.5.8.  I have LR2 and Beta 3 installed (but have not tried it for printing).  I haves CS4.  I have printed happily using LR2 and CS4.  So far I have NOT installed Snow Leopard because I keep reading about all these problems.

Am I best sticking with what I've got and waiting for this problem to be solved?  Am I worrying about nothing?

Peter

I am sure if you tell us what printer you are using there would be someone here that could tell you whether you can print in SL without double profiling or what workaround can be used if needed.

While printed unmanaged targets seems to be the only issue with newer Epson drivers, older printer are not really supported at all in SL and will give double profiling when printing using Apple's new printing path. However for application that use the old printing path none of these problems exist with a driver written for Leopard in Snow Leopard.

Doyle
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 05:30:06 PM by DYP » Logged
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2010, 01:08:22 AM »
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Quote from: djoy
Here in the UK at the moment the "Focus on Imaging" annual photgraphic show is on, think of it as a smaller PMA.
Well, maybe not smaller.  PMA is shrinking ... Canon wasn't even there this year.  They opted for CES and WPPI instead.
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Peter S
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« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2010, 04:57:11 AM »
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Quote from: DYP
I am sure if you tell us what printer you are using there would be someone here that could tell you whether you can print in SL without double profiling or what workaround can be used if needed.

Doyle

I am using an Epson 3800 and haver a ColorMunki which I use mainly for screen calibration.  I have only used the colormunki (with some expert help) to produce profiles for a couple of papers and otherwise use the Epson profiles which seem to work well.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 04:57:59 AM by Peter S » Logged
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2010, 11:27:08 AM »
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Quote from: Peter S
I am using an Epson 3800 and haver a ColorMunki which I use mainly for screen calibration.  I have only used the colormunki (with some expert help) to produce profiles for a couple of papers and otherwise use the Epson profiles which seem to work well.

Peter
The ColorMunki can have issues with leopard as well as Snow Leopard if making paper profiles but a simple work around seems to solve this (although I can't scientifically prove it does since I have no clue what the targets are supposed to look like ... I just know the profile seems quite normal and produces good results.), For calibrating your display it works fine.

As far as printing, other than the problem of printing targets mentioned by Andrew, the most common issue seems to be installing the driver and setting up the printer, both are pretty easy fixes if you run into them.  First you have to have Rosetta installed on your Mac to run the Epson installer, not a big deal.  Second when setting up the printer in the Print and Fax panel, it may or may not work with Bonjour, so you may need to use Epson IP instead.  According to Epson site this is the opposite (the IP driver is problematic).  I have been running a 7900 with Bonjour for a long time, then suddenly after I had to resinstall some things and reset my printing system, when resinstalling the 7900 I couldn't print.  A call to Epson and the tech tells me to use Epson IP instead, "Bonjour doesn't work and never has". while this statement is absolutely false (the iMac sitting next to me was printing from Bonjour just fine while I was trying to get my laptop set up again), using IP solved my problems, both with the 7900 as well as Epsons workforce 610 consumer all in one printer.

To use Epson IP, when setting up the printer in the Print and Fax pane, you just have to wait for about 30 seconds for it to show up.  The Bonjour choice shows up right away, the IP one takes a little while.  Choose it and everything should work.

Edit: corrected wording as pointed out by Jeff in following post.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 02:25:49 AM by Wayne Fox » Logged

Schewe
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« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2010, 11:35:40 AM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
First you have to have Rosetta installed on your Mac to run the Epson driver, not a big deal.

Actually, you don't need Rosetta for the driver...you need it to run the installer. Epson needs to update their installer software. The driver itself is (or would be) happy without Rosetta.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2010, 02:24:11 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Actually, you don't need Rosetta for the driver...you need it to run the installer. Epson needs to update their installer software. The driver itself is (or would be) happy without Rosetta.
Right.  I said it correctly in the first part of my post describing the problems, but then didn't word in correctly when actually talking about how to resolve the problems.  Thanks for pointing that out.
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Schewe
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2010, 09:35:50 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
Right.  I said it correctly in the first part of my post describing the problems, but then didn't word in correctly when actually talking about how to resolve the problems.  Thanks for pointing that out.


Sorry bud...didn't bother to keep track of the whole darn thread :~(

I just get kinda tired by the back and forth...so when I see something I tend to pounce instead of reread the whole thread to see what might have been posted. Kinda hard to keep track sometimes...(and sometimes I'm purely SHOCKED, SHOCKED I tell ya) by some of the posts I actually make...

Has something to do with a really high late nite intolerance to, well, "not getting something just right"...

:~)
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Peter S
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« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2010, 01:05:35 PM »
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Thanks for your help guys.  I guess I've always been reluctant to change things that seem to work OK unless there is some real benefit and I can't see much benefit in changing to Snow Leopard (at present) and giving myself some potential problems with printing using the 3800 or profiling with the ColorMunki.  But ... I suppose I will have to take the plunge sometime.

Peter
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David Mantripp
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« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2010, 05:56:33 AM »
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Quote from: Peter S
Thanks for your help guys.  I guess I've always been reluctant to change things that seem to work OK unless there is some real benefit and I can't see much benefit in changing to Snow Leopard (at present) and giving myself some potential problems with printing using the 3800 or profiling with the ColorMunki.  But ... I suppose I will have to take the plunge sometime.

Peter

Since Apple (or whoever, whatever) screwed up monitor hardware calibration 10.5.6, I've reverted to 10.5.5.  I now therefore have a G5 running 10.5.5, printing to an Epson 3800 from PSCS3, fed by Aperture 2. This works fine, beautifully in fact. Net result:

- i 'm not going to buy a Mac Pro (Apple loses revenue)
- i'm not going to buy Aperture 3, since it needs Intel (Apple loses revenue)
- i'm not going to upgrade from PSCS3 (and until now I always upgraded, since 2.0) (Adobe loses revenue)
- no incentive to upgrade my printer (Epson loses revenue)

All 3 can let me know when they've sorted it out. Until then ... whatEVER.

(Actually, unless Apple readjusts focus a bit away from consumer gadgetry, I can even envisage moving to Windows, where, remarkably, there's less of this nonsense these days)
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William Walker
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2010, 11:46:52 AM »
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Hi

I downloaded 10.6.3 today, have just profiled some paper, done a print and.... it works perfectly!

(iMac, Colormunki, CS4 and epson 3880)

I am looking forward to hearing about everyone else.

William
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Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2010, 12:28:27 PM »
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Quote from: WillytheWalks
Hi

I downloaded 10.6.3 today, have just profiled some paper, done a print and.... it works perfectly!

(iMac, Colormunki, CS4 and epson 3880)

I am looking forward to hearing about everyone else.

William

By jove, I think he could be right!

More info to follow...
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
RGB Arts Ltd, London, UK
Jack Flesher
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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2010, 12:36:37 PM »
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Doesn't specifically address the color profiling issue in the overview, reading the full specs now at http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4014 and remain hopefully optimistic: Second bullet point is this,

General operating system fixes and improvements provided for:

printing reliability.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 12:39:08 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2010, 12:47:29 PM »
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Quote from: Marco Ugolini
Well, I can only say that, so far, I have not had problems profiling printing devices (inkjet and laser) using Snow Leopard. If the problem does indeed exist, I have yet to encounter it.

Me either which makes it impossible for me to test if the new build works or not. On the Epson printers I have, they behave as expected. Be great if someone that has a driver that didn’t work could comment about what the upgrade did or didn’t do.
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Andrew Rodney
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Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2010, 01:05:00 PM »
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My particular combination of MacOSX 10.6.3, Photoshop CS4 and an Epson 7900 is now producing untagged profiling charts correctly for the first time without the need to resort to a workaround. I have just updated the thread that I started back in January last year when I first encountered this particular problem.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....t=0#entry253945

Perhaps Wayne and a few others could test the same combination?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 02:03:25 PM by Ionaca » Logged

Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
RGB Arts Ltd, London, UK
Marco Ugolini
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2010, 01:33:06 PM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
My particular combination of MacOSX 10.6.3, Photoshop CS4 and an Epson 7900 is now producing untagged profiling charts correctly for the first time without the need to resort to a workaround. I have just updated the thread that I started back in January last year when I first encountered this particular problem.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....t=0#entry253945
Perhaps Mac OS 10.6.3 has provided a fix on whatever was wrong in earlier versions?

I'm asking because I hopped straight from 10.5.8 to 10.6.3, and have had no experience of intermediate versions. (Whenever feasible, I try not to be an "early adopter").
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 01:33:29 PM by Marco Ugolini » Logged

Marco Ugolini
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2010, 01:53:33 PM »
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Quote from: Marco Ugolini
Perhaps Mac OS 10.6.3 has provided a fix on whatever was wrong in earlier versions?

I'm asking because I hopped straight from 10.5.8 to 10.6.3, and have had no experience of intermediate versions. (Whenever feasible, I try not to be an "early adopter").

I first encountered problems with MacOSX 10.5.6
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2010, 02:28:54 PM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
My particular combination of MacOSX 10.6.3, Photoshop CS4 and an Epson 7900 is now producing untagged profiling charts correctly for the first time without the need to resort to a workaround. I have just updated the thread that I started back in January last year when I first encountered this particular problem.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....t=0#entry253945

Perhaps Wayne and a few others could test the same combination?

That's good news.  Unfortunately I won't be around any of my printers for a few days, but as soon as I am I will test this as well.
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