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Author Topic: ACR is not embedding EXIF data in saved 16 bit tiff files  (Read 4100 times)
Bill Koenig
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« on: March 03, 2010, 04:36:00 PM »
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I'm converting bracketed NEF files to 16 bit tiff in ACR then sending them to Photomatix pro. After starting a batch conversion, Photomatix says there is no EXIF data in my tiff files.
So my question is, how do I get ACR to embed the EXIF data in my 16 bit tiff files?
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Bill Koenig,
tomrock
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 07:52:13 AM »
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I've never heard of ACR NOT including the exif data. Try opening one of the files in question directly into Photoshop and check File menu File Info... and see if the exif isn't there.

My guess is that this is a Photomatrix issue.
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bjanes
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 08:12:16 AM »
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Quote from: Bill Koenig
I'm converting bracketed NEF files to 16 bit tiff in ACR then sending them to Photomatix pro. After starting a batch conversion, Photomatix says there is no EXIF data in my tiff files.
So my question is, how do I get ACR to embed the EXIF data in my 16 bit tiff files?
I do not use PhotoMatix, but when using Imatest for image evaluation, I often note that some EXIF data such as camera make, lens focal length, shutter speed and aperture are not read by Imatest with TIFFs but are available in JPEGs, both rendered by ACR. I understand that EXIF for JPEG is more standardized than with TIFFs. When I look at File Info in the TIFFs with Photoshop the data are there but not accessed by Imatest.

Bill
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Bill Koenig
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 02:33:15 PM »
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After saving my tiff files in folder I created for this HDR shot, bridge added two more files to this folder. I don't remember the exact name, it was something "Bridge???" I will check to night.
Could this be where the EXIF data for my tiff files? I tried to open it, but couldn't. Could I have a setting in bridge preferences, set improperly, for the way I would like bridge to handle the EXIF data?
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Bill Koenig,
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 04:40:35 PM »
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Instead of saving the TIFF's directly from ACR, try using the Image Processor instead. That's how I batch-save TIFF's, and I have no problem with Photomatix (or any other programing) reading the metadata (including EXIF) from the resulting files.
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Bill Koenig
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 06:20:49 PM »
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The files that bridge sends with my tiff's are called " .BridgeCache and .BridgeCacheT "
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Bill Koenig,
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2010, 07:43:23 AM »
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Those cache files are the previews and sort order of the folder.

What happens when you open one of the tiffs and look at the file info in PS?
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madmanchan
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2010, 08:41:18 AM »
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That's odd. The EXIF data should all be there. If you can post a (small) TIFF file -- cropped is fine -- I can take a look.

I just did a quick check with a TIFF file saved by ACR that two other programs could read the EXIF. One was the Get Info box in the Finder (Mac OS 10.5.Cool, and the other was Phil Harvey's exiftool.
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Bill Koenig
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 10:44:24 AM »
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I was using Opanda Exif 2.5 to view Exif content, but it doesn't work with tiff files. Over the weekend I downloaded a viewer that does work with tiff, and guess what, the Exif data is there.
So the problem has something to do with Photomatix Pro.  
Thanks everyone for replying to my question.
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Bill Koenig,
milt
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 08:13:47 PM »
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This is a little off-topic, but why aren't you sending the NEFs straight into Photomatix?  Doing so is not only more convenient, it also avoids a linear -> gamma -> linear conversion round trip.

If you are using ACR this way to do some sort of pre-tone-mapping correction,  I'd be curious to know how you assure that the corrections are applied consistently across the bracket set, and also whether you have actually compared this approach with sending the NEFs straight into Photomatix and applying corrections after tone mapping.

Thanks.

--Milt--
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Bill Koenig
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 09:49:25 AM »
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Photomatix recommends doing the raw conversion in a third party raw converter, I use ACR and save everything as 16 bit tiff file.
Also, do not apply any adjustments in the raw converter, set everything to zero, this includes setting the parametric point curves to linear as well.
What they are saying is, there raw converter just isn't as good as a dedicated third party converter. Check out page 24 in there manual.

http://www.multimediaphoto.com/pm/PhotomatixProManual.pdf
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Bill Koenig,
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 12:59:42 PM »
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OK.  I also saw that point in the Photomatix manual some time ago.  However:

1) Photomatix's internal raw converter is dcraw, which is certainly not as capable at corrections as ACR, but is a pretty widely used and respected converter.  In fact, there are some threads on this forum discussing the use of (and the reasons for use of) dcraw.

2) It may well be possible that the Nikon raw converter is better than non-Nikon converters due to proprietary knowledge by Nikon about its sensors, however, unless you use a specific camera profile, why would you think that a completely zero-ed out ACR would be better than dcraw on NEFs?  (I'm not saying it isn't, I would just like to know if you know of some specific reason that it actually is better.)

3) I doubt if you are avoiding the linear/gamma conversion round trip by using a linear curve.  The gamma of whatever color space you use in the tiff will be applied as the file is saved, no matter what corrections you asked for.  In any case, how would Photomatix know not to apply the gamma->linear conversion on reading the tiff?

4) I did a VERY small experiment something like a year ago.  I tried several of my HDRs both ways.  I got 1 I liked a little better using dcraw, and something like 3 or 4 where the difference was insignificant.

--Milt--
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Bill Koenig
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 03:30:12 PM »
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Milt,

You are right about ACR, it doesn't output a linear conversion. I see on page 21 paragraph 4.2 batch processing. Here you have a check box asking if the source images are linear, it says do not check this box for anything converted in photoshop. I think I may have checked that box, maybe that's why it didn't read the Exif data.
I will give your method a try, and compare. Eliminating a trip to ACR would be great.
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Bill Koenig,
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 08:29:52 AM »
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Bill,

I'd certainly welcome learning about your results or any comparisons you might do.  I also did a quickie comparison with Capture NX2 about a year ago, & got similar "it seems to basically be a wash" results, but I've been too lazy to do any real systematic comparisons.  I suppose any HDR of high value should really be sent thru all three approaches (and probably also thru other tone mappers).

You point out the answer to my "In any case, how would Photomatix know not to apply the gamma->linear conversion on reading the tiff?" statement.  I had forgotten about that check box.  I'm curious to know just how one would go about producing a linear RGB tiff.

--Milt--
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