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Author Topic: PA241W and Spectraview II  (Read 52753 times)
StevenWu
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« Reply #100 on: October 14, 2010, 02:12:37 PM »
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Just curious what happened with your PA271w?  I just got the same monitor and I'm nothing some backlight bleeding in the top right (not exactly as the corner but 2-3 inches off of it toward the middle).  Just to be clear, it is the top right if I am facing the monitor.
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gromit
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« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2010, 03:10:45 AM »
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Just curious what happened with your PA271w?

I received a replacement PA271W with good luminance uniformity, but just a touch of a cyan caste in the bottom left corner, occasionally noticeable in light areas. This is probably the best that can be expected from such a wide screen with CCFL backlight. Note that I paid extra for the Spectraview Reference to ensure I got a good unit.

Further to my comments above, I'm actually finding the extra width quite useful for comparing images/views side by side.
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PJAMedia
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« Reply #102 on: November 02, 2010, 09:55:22 AM »
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That's exactly what I did, a European PA with SVII kit from B&H, where you don't need any broker for direct cheap and quick UPS worldwide saver delivery. BTW all the probes I own, are from there. None had any issue till now, it's just that the standard i1D2 does not work for wide gamut monitors at all, but that's not under warranty.

regards
nino

I am looking at buying the European MultiSync (non-SV) version of the PA271W. I have SVII software with license from the states (and just downloaded the latest update for this), but wondering which calibrator to use. Wondering if in fact I'd be better off getting the ColorMunki device instead of the NEC (modified i1D2) colorimeter from the States, as this does printer profiling also. Price is also comparable when I add delivery and import tax etc. Just wondered if anyone had experience of using the CM device with PA271W/SVII ??

Thanks, Paul A
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Czornyj
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« Reply #103 on: November 02, 2010, 10:29:24 AM »
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Just wondered if anyone had experience of using the CM device with PA271W/SVII ??
CM works flawlessly with SVII and I highly recommend it.
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PJAMedia
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« Reply #104 on: November 03, 2010, 04:15:48 AM »
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CM works flawlessly with SVII and I highly recommend it.

Thanks for the reply - can I just confirm that you are using the CM with SVII for the PA271W (wide-gamut, 10bit) monitor?

Just want to be doubly sure this is a good combo before I go splash out the 300 on the CM here in the UK.

Thanks again, Paul
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TimBarker
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« Reply #105 on: November 03, 2010, 05:23:41 AM »
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also using (or more correctly learning to use) the CM-PA271 combination with SVII.  No complaints so far although I have heard that the CM isn't the most accurate with off-white papers when doing printer profiles though I haven't yet had the same problem.
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Tim Barker (aka MandoTiM in other forums),
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Uses Nikon D200 or Sony Ixus110is
with post-processing on an ASUS P6T and i7-920 with
6Gb RAM, 1.5Tb discs, NEC PA271, Gigabyte 9600, Canon 9000Pro,
using Win7-64, CS4 et al.
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« Reply #106 on: November 03, 2010, 09:02:22 AM »
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Thanks for the reply - can I just confirm that you are using the CM with SVII for the PA271W (wide-gamut, 10bit) monitor?

Just want to be doubly sure this is a good combo before I go splash out the 300 on the CM here in the UK.

Thanks again, Paul

Yep - I'm using my private i1pro, but I've tested few samples of CM on PA & SV Reference 241, PA & SV Reference 271 and so on. It works just like my i1pro spectro, and there's virtually no difference in profiles and validation results.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #107 on: November 07, 2010, 07:03:26 PM »
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Regular PA can't be hardware calibrated via basICColor/Spectraview - it's blocked in the the firmware. In the past there were tricks to unlock it in x80 and in early x90 models, but now NEC made things more complicated and AFAIK it can't be done in a simple way (or at least the method remains undiscovered), so the US Spectraview II software is the only way to make it.

I bought a PA271W - probably the first one to arrive in Toronto. The colorimeter which comes with it is the NEC version of the i1 Display 2, which has been specially adapted for use with this model display. I was not satisfied with Spectraview II because it only makes matrix profiles; while the profile validation results weren't bad, I felt that one could do better, perhaps with LUT profiles which use many more data points. Therefore after checking with Karl Koch whether BasicColor would work on this US version of the display, I bought, installed and used BasicColor 4.1.22 as the profiling software and NEC's colorimeter as the profiling hardware. I am pleased to report that this combination of software and hardware works seamlessly with the US version of the PA271W, and the validation results of the profiling were truly very good. 
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Czornyj
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« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2010, 03:24:56 AM »
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Personally I'm a big fan of Karl Koch and basICColor, but in this case I'm not sure if it's such a good idea.
1) Custom NEC sensor has a built-in correction matrix, but it may be enabled only by Spectraview II software
2) I'm not sure whether - in case of a PA271W, that is perfectly linearised via internal 14(16)bit 3DLUT - a LUT profile can provide better results than matrix profile
3) basICColor display 4 calibrates the NEC display internally only when it's identified as Spectraview Reference - in other case the "Hardware calibration (monitor LUTs)" option is unavailable, and only "Combined hard- and software calibration" method can be selected. So the question is - can you really switch on the "Hardware calibration (monitor LUTs)" method in basICColor display settings?

As for SVII profile validation:
1) What was the validation method you're referring to?
2) Did you enable "Calibration Priority: best grayscale tracking", "Calibration and Profile steps: 52(Highest quality)" and "Extend luminance stabilization times"  modes in SVII Preferences?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 03:46:33 AM by Czornyj » Logged

Mark D Segal
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« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2010, 07:05:03 AM »
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Personally I'm a big fan of Karl Koch and basICColor, but in this case I'm not sure if it's such a good idea.
1) Custom NEC sensor has a built-in correction matrix, but it may be enabled only by Spectraview II software
2) I'm not sure whether - in case of a PA271W, that is perfectly linearised via internal 14(16)bit 3DLUT - a LUT profile can provide better results than matrix profile
3) basICColor display 4 calibrates the NEC display internally only when it's identified as Spectraview Reference - in other case the "Hardware calibration (monitor LUTs)" option is unavailable, and only "Combined hard- and software calibration" method can be selected. So the question is - can you really switch on the "Hardware calibration (monitor LUTs)" method in basICColor display settings?

As for SVII profile validation:
1) What was the validation method you're referring to?
2) Did you enable "Calibration Priority: best grayscale tracking", "Calibration and Profile steps: 52(Highest quality)" and "Extend luminance stabilization times"  modes in SVII Preferences?

,,,,,,"not sure", "may-be"; do you own this set-up and have you tested it yourself? I do and I have and it works. And how do you know a PA271W is necessarily perfectly linearized? I have been presented with evidence that mine is not bad but not perfect. On what authority does your observation #3 come from? Someone told you this, or you actually tried it and in your set-up it failed? In my environment, the hardware calibration option is available and that is what I used, and that is what the software reported I used: "Hardware calibration (Monitor LUT)". And yes when I used SVII I had all the same settings you mention; validation is the results given by the software's own validation algorithm; this has obvious limitations, so it can be supplemented using BabelColor's PatchTool with independent suites of test patches and calculating algorithms - I have all that stuff installed and I've used in the past for diagnostics on my previous system which was causing me some problems, but in the final analysis I didn't need to bother this time, because I got the extent of improvement I wanted using BasicColor.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Czornyj
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« Reply #110 on: November 08, 2010, 09:04:11 AM »
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I'm never sure of anything about color management Wink

Thanks for the answer, that's very interesting - seems like NEC displays for US market identify themselves as SV's. Could you please check your model's name in last tag of advanced menu?

When you're validating the SV II profile with PT and NEC sensor the measurement may vary, because SVII uses internal custom correction matrices of the sensor while PT uses generic X-Rite correction matrices.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 09:10:51 AM by Czornyj » Logged

Mark D Segal
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« Reply #111 on: November 08, 2010, 09:49:27 AM »
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The model stated in the info tag is PA271W. The serial number of my unit ends with "UA". This, however is not a relevant factor. The monitors sold in North America and in Europe have identical hardware. The only differences are "certification", hood, profiling software, inclusion or exclusion of colorimeter and price.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Czornyj
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« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2010, 10:33:31 AM »
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The monitors sold in North America and in Europe have identical hardware.
The hardware is identical, but the firmware must be different. The basICColor's "Hardware Calibration (LUTs)" method is grayed out, it simply doesn't work with european NECs. And there's no PA271W on the official "Hardware Support List basICColor display 4.1.22"...
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #113 on: November 08, 2010, 10:41:04 AM »
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Whether or not it is stated on a list, if it works it works, and at least here it does. For whatever reason the regular commercial version of BasicColor 4.1.22 works on the North American model but not on the European model, at least we know that both displays can be calibrated and profiled at the hardware LUT level with on or the other of the BasicColor Display versions. 
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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« Reply #114 on: November 19, 2010, 06:28:53 PM »
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I just received my PA271w with Spectraview hardware/software. It replaces my last, trusty Sony Artisan. It's connected to a MacPro with a dedicated nVidia GeForce GT 120 card via DVI (10-bit display isn't ready for prime time on yet).

My initial reaction is positive. It produces a very clear image. The push-button settings for colorspaces is too easy, making it hard for me to believe that it's accurate.

Photographs of vividly colored objects finally get their color appropriately crushed when soft-proofing. What a relief as most of my work ends up in CMYK. Before, with the Artisan, I'd see the difference but the color/tonal change wasn't nearly as dramatic as it should have been.

As an excuse to sip a few beers, I used both my Spyder 3 and the modified i1 puck that came with the monitor for a little fun. The difference is very apparent. The profile created by the Spyder produces a warmer gray than that of the i1 puck. Both color plots seem to be about the same area/volume. See attached. The colored area is the profile, the yellow triangle is the Adobe 1998 colorspace. The "x" in the middle is the white point, and in both cases they mate perfectly with the white point of Adobe '98 RGB. The Spectraview software is one of the nicest profiling programs I've used.

While flipping through several dozen images, shadow detail and highlight separation seem very nice. Contrast is definitely higher than the Artisan. The jury's still out until I get a few projects proofed by clients' prepress departments, and I see the stuff in print, but so far I'm liking this monitor package.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 05:20:42 PM by Chris_Brown » Logged

~ CB
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« Reply #115 on: January 03, 2011, 03:49:37 AM »
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I'm considering buying the PA241W from B&H but note that their price for the monitor PA241W-BK-SV with the bundled Spectraview II package is more expensive ($1240) than the PA241W-BK and NEC Color Sensor and SpectraView II bought separately ($799.95 plus $277.09 = $1077.44). I don't know if this is because of a special promo deal on the basic monitor, but the obvious thing to do is to buy the items separately and ship in the same order. Unless someone could give me reason why I shouldn't do this.

However, I haven't quite decided whether to get the PA241W or the PA271W. I see that the aspect ratio is 16:10 on the PA241W and 16:9 on the PA271W. The difference in height between both monitors is only about 0.4" but of course the PA271W is 3.1" longer and the resolution greater.

My intended use of the monitor is for photographic processing and Internet browsing only. No gaming, playing movies etc.

Any help on making a final choice between the two sizes would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Wellington, New Zealand
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« Reply #116 on: January 03, 2011, 07:16:47 AM »
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The basICColor's "Hardware Calibration (LUTs)" method is grayed out, it simply doesn't work with european NECs.
Not greyed out here with my PA271.

Paul in the UK
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gromit
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« Reply #117 on: January 03, 2011, 02:27:13 PM »
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I'm considering buying the PA241W from B&H but note that their price for the monitor PA241W-BK-SV with the bundled Spectraview II package is more expensive ($1240) than the PA241W-BK and NEC Color Sensor and SpectraView II bought separately ($799.95 plus $277.09 = $1077.44). I don't know if this is because of a special promo deal on the basic monitor, but the obvious thing to do is to buy the items separately and ship in the same order. Unless someone could give me reason why I shouldn't do this.

However, I haven't quite decided whether to get the PA241W or the PA271W. I see that the aspect ratio is 16:10 on the PA241W and 16:9 on the PA271W. The difference in height between both monitors is only about 0.4" but of course the PA271W is 3.1" longer and the resolution greater.

The SV package is aimed at novices who aren't capable of making adjustments by eye (it looks too warm so I'll up the colour temperature, it's too contrasty so I'll change the luminance/blackpoint). These monitors work great with MultiProfiler which is a free download. Save your money and go with the PA271W instead which has finer dot pitch ... more important than the imagined differences you get with the SV package over MultiProfiler.
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Enchanter
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« Reply #118 on: January 03, 2011, 02:42:33 PM »
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Thanks gromit. I'll definitely get the PA271W and as I currently have a Spyder3 Elite I may do as you suggest re. the MultiProfiler.
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Wellington, New Zealand
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« Reply #119 on: January 11, 2011, 12:07:01 PM »
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Hi All,

I ordered two PA241W-BK-SV, the first two arrived damaged so they went back to NEC.
My replacements are on their way, but I am concerned about the
Pixels per inch (PPI) or Pixel Density of just 94

Everything will be to large, what can I do about this.

My W701 has a PPI of 133
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 12:18:57 PM by Manuel_A » Logged
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