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Author Topic: recommandations for 5DII handheld rig  (Read 3604 times)
pschefz
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« on: March 04, 2010, 05:16:24 PM »
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redrock micro? zacuto? just got an email from cambo about their lineup.....afaik none of these replace a steadycam for moving with the camera? any input/experience welcome.....
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stever
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2010, 03:14:14 PM »
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go to cinema5d.com

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billy
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2010, 07:13:37 PM »
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Quote from: pschefz
redrock micro? zacuto? just got an email from cambo about their lineup.....afaik none of these replace a steadycam for moving with the camera? any input/experience welcome.....

I got the red rock eye spy deluxe with follow focus, put a hoodman loupe on the back, and then a matte box from india somewhere(couldnt find the info for you, sorry). it works great. the only lame thing is the way the loupe fits the LCD screen, kinda loose, I tried to gaf tape it but that didnt work well. the whole thing is like $1500.
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pschefz
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 04:56:07 PM »
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Quote from: billy
I got the red rock eye spy deluxe with follow focus, put a hoodman loupe on the back, and then a matte box from india somewhere(couldnt find the info for you, sorry). it works great. the only lame thing is the way the loupe fits the LCD screen, kinda loose, I tried to gaf tape it but that didnt work well. the whole thing is like $1500.

i just got rid of the hoodman, good loupe but the straps don't do it for me...
about the eye spy rig: can you really shoot handheld and focus with it? i am assuming you have someone pulling focus for you? how about longer lenses? i just don't see how these shoulder or handheld rigs really let you get a steady shot? i don't see the difference to simply holding/bracing the camera...of course with a matte box and someone pulling focus you need a rig to make it all happen....
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billy
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 09:46:54 PM »
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Quote from: pschefz
i just got rid of the hoodman, good loupe but the straps don't do it for me...
about the eye spy rig: can you really shoot handheld and focus with it? i am assuming you have someone pulling focus for you? how about longer lenses? i just don't see how these shoulder or handheld rigs really let you get a steady shot? i don't see the difference to simply holding/bracing the camera...of course with a matte box and someone pulling focus you need a rig to make it all happen....


I should explain; I am shooting approximately 3-5 second scenes where the subject is still and I am moving, more often than not. we hit focus on the 2 points and butter it inbetween. btw, using the zeiss ze 50 helps. but your right, it is impossible w/longer lenses ?( mine was hopeless ) and 50/50 when pulling focus yourself while moving. but if you need to you can operate the entire rig by yourself, its not impossible. If you really need the horizon to not move in the distance than no, this is not the solution. But cool looking / candid feeling moments can be captured with this rig. I like it and its not that much dough.

I think I am gonna krazy glue that loupe to the LCD, that would work fine. I dont need it for stills so I might as well do it. At that price its a disposable camera.

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pschefz
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 03:39:59 PM »
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Quote from: billy
I should explain; I am shooting approximately 3-5 second scenes where the subject is still and I am moving, more often than not. we hit focus on the 2 points and butter it inbetween. btw, using the zeiss ze 50 helps. but your right, it is impossible w/longer lenses ?( mine was hopeless ) and 50/50 when pulling focus yourself while moving. but if you need to you can operate the entire rig by yourself, its not impossible. If you really need the horizon to not move in the distance than no, this is not the solution. But cool looking / candid feeling moments can be captured with this rig. I like it and its not that much dough.

I think I am gonna krazy glue that loupe to the LCD, that would work fine. I dont need it for stills so I might as well do it. At that price its a disposable camera.


i believe i am looking to get similar shots as you....i use leica lenses on the canon, so i understand what you are saying in refernce to the zeiss....
do you see a difference in "shake" when using the focus on the lens compared to the focus of the rig?
i am wondering if i can skip the rig all together because for the short clips i can do without and i am not sure how much better it would be with, even with longer clips and/or longer lenses....
i guess i have to check it out for myself.....most of the rigs can be customized anyway, so i can add focus and such later anyway.....i don't think i want the shoulder mount....
i just don't really see how the really small rigs (handheld in front of the body) can improve the image?
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 04:11:14 PM »
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I have developed the Half Inch Rails Camera Support System

This was a result of my learning motion shooting from a background of being a stills photographer and gaining some very real training from some BBC ENG (eletronic news gathering) cameramen

It is smaller lighter and better balanced than other rigs

Has a smaller packdown size

You can focus in shot - due the the location of the FF wheel

Works with or without ZFinder

It is very stable

The camera sits to low on the rails to fit a 'cine' matt box

The cam sitting low on the rails gives a more solid tripod connection

Watch some of my stuff  -I have applied myself very seriously to aquiring simple footage with a 5d - looking to do it on the side while shooting stills (with a nikon or blad)

Without wanting to 'diss the C5d crowd - I think many are after jewelery rather than shooting tools

(My personal unreleased 'Finder' is rail mount and does not have a magnet or rubber bands - I could make one for other interested parties)

SMM

my videos..
vimeo/sammorganmoore
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 04:28:49 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 04:21:09 PM »
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In steadicam versus shoulder mount

They are different tools

A steadicam truely floats the camera

it takes much skill to operate

It is very hard to hold a 'lock off' (static shot)

It is impossible to pull focus without a remote device ($2000+)

It will need trimming every lens change - or even zoom adjustment

It is upset by wind

It is upset by any wires (eg earphones)

Beautiful but often not practical

---

Shoulder Mount is really for poorly exectued lockoffs and moves where you do not move your feet - walking and shouldermount is a big skills

SM is good because you can

change location fast

compose very well very fast (unlike setting a tripod)

Pull focus, Zoom and change lenses with minimal hassle

Has a low profile light weight fast set up time

As I have shot more video I use in order..

SM
Tripod
Steadicam

While SC is the most lovely tool I feel it is Icing rather than Cake - as I have learned to shoot to cut I am getting better with the first two systems

S

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pschefz
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 06:30:07 PM »
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i have some experience with steadicam and i am aware of its limitations and i don't see any of those rigs replacing SC....

checked out your videos, especially the paparazzi one....looks very nice, i think i would have shot that with SC?

i will have to check out some stuff in person to get the feel for it.....
once focus and matte box is required a larger rig is necessary anyway....

i am aware of the DSLRvideo sites, but coming from stills i see things from a different angle and sometimes there is more then one way to get there....those sites seem to be mostly film/video guys shooting with dslrs (instead of video/film cams...)

thanks for all the input....
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billy
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 10:29:14 PM »
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"i just don't really see how the really small rigs (handheld in front of the body) can improve the image?"

your right for the most part but here is where it works; say you are shooting from a moving car, sitting shotgun, it sure rests nice on top of a sandbag draped over the open window, using the follow focus and counterweight to your advantage sure helps. there are all kinds of situations like this that arise.

yeah, you could save $1500 and do it without a rig, but I betcha you will prefer a rig once you use it. it does NOT replace a steadicam however, your assumption is correct.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 12:09:52 AM »
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Quote from: pschefz
i have some experience with steadicam and i am aware of its limitations and i don't see any of those rigs replacing SC....

checked out your videos, especially the paparazzi one....looks very nice, i think i would have shot that with SC?

i will have to check out some stuff in person to get the feel for it.....
once focus and matte box is required a larger rig is necessary anyway....

i am aware of the DSLRvideo sites, but coming from stills i see things from a different angle and sometimes there is more then one way to get there....those sites seem to be mostly film/video guys shooting with dslrs (instead of video/film cams...)

thanks for all the input....

The background for the Pap video is an assistant friend of mine was shooting the stills for a 'test'

I was actually just visiting them and I said hey can I come along and film you guys - no planning no prep - no space in the wagon for a load of kit - also I had no input the the scenes he was directing for his stills shoot - I was in effect a 'fly on the wall'

The main reason I could not have used a SC was the constant pulling of focus (im shooting a tight moving head at 105 a lot at F4) and also the zero setup time between shot would have not allowed rebalancing the rig between shots to counter the change in mass caused by a zoom (I used 24-105 never zooming in shot)

I have a merlin, a blackbird and a pilot BTW

--

My rig certainly allows pulling of focus - via the drive belt skateboard wheel combo

I find the cine size MB means you must lift the camera from the rails meaning there is a tendency for the rig to flex - and flex is bad for shots

I use a combination of circular NDs and lense hoods - no MB for RnG- my rig is available in the 'cinema' configuration (a cage) that will accept a MB hung from the top of the cage, bcause the cage varies in heights it will work with any camera from GH1 to 1ds unlike the other makers who are selling different spacers every time a new cam comes out and have been beaten by the 1ds which places the lens too high for the 'standard' cinema geometry

---

How do you think the requirements of a stills shooter are different from a video guy??

I think the difference is..

No AC (assistant to camera)
Acceptable packdown size
Desire for quality shots !

S


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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2010, 12:13:51 AM »
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Quote from: billy
"i just don't really see how the really small rigs (handheld in front of the body) can improve the image?"

If you watch this clip - which is pretty boring - part of a sensible doco I am shooting - I am holding a stable shot and pulling focus

This is with a tiny rig - not shoulder mount just two handles and the viewer - very intuitive to the stills shooter



(in the shot im doing my exposure I actually shoot with the hand on the handle !)


I think the stability is in a different leauge from what could be done with no rig - when you test other rigs you try shots like these maybe?

Handheld clip from doco


S
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 12:26:12 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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