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Author Topic: ColorChecker Passport / Adobe DNG profiling in Lightroom 3(beta)  (Read 6871 times)
Ellis Vener
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« on: March 12, 2010, 11:34:07 AM »
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Has anyone tried using either program in the Lightroom 3 public beta?
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Ellis Vener
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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 11:50:34 AM »
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Quote from: Ellis Vener
Has anyone tried using either program in the Lightroom 3 public beta?
I've exported DNGs from LR3 beta for use in the Adobe DNG Editor and created profiles in the editor that I have then used in LR.

Worked fine, but I haven't put it through any rigorous regression testing or anything.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 12:24:05 PM »
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Quote from: Ellis Vener
Has anyone tried using either program in the Lightroom 3 public beta?

Doesn’t work in the public beta. Both parties are aware of this.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 12:48:25 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Doesn’t work in the public beta. Both parties are aware of this.
I haven't tried using it internally within LR, but can vouch for Passport and DNG Profile Editor working as a standalones, with the resulting profiles being recognized by LR 3 Beta.  Now if we can just get Adobe to put the Camera Calibration menu to the top of the stack on the right, or allow us to restack the components.  It is the first thing I change, so it blows the top to bottom workflow concept.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 12:50:40 PM »
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Yes, the standalone and the resulting profiles are fine. Building them inside the public beta, not so much.

Many of us have asked for the calibration on the top...
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Andrew Rodney
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 01:02:03 PM »
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Another vote for either the Calibration panel on top or at least the option to put it there. Are you reading this Eric and Tom?
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Ellis Vener
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tokengirl
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 10:19:46 PM »
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I agree, the calibration panel should be on top.  I cannot for the life of me understand why the very thing that should be set first is at the absolute bottom, just makes no sense to me at all.
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Schewe
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 11:04:23 PM »
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Quote from: Ellis Vener
Another vote for either the Calibration panel on top or at least the option to put it there. Are you reading this Eric and Tom?


Really...how often do you need to touch the Camera Calibration panel? I mean, if you are using a profile as a color correction technique, you've completely misunderstood the value and use of DNG profiles...

By the time you are in the Develop module, you should have already applied whatever "default" settings you want or whatever presets you've created...going down to the Camera Calibration panel inside of Develop essentially means you've punted on color correction and you are flailing about and trying anything to "fix" you base level color corrections...

Look, the order of the panels in Lightroom ain't gonna be changed because of a few posts in an obscure web forum...the position of the panel simply does not raise to the level of mission critical.

But let's get back to the whole choice of the "default" DNG profile you are using...are you not using Adobe Standard? Why?
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neil snape
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2010, 01:18:24 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Really...how often do you need to touch the Camera Calibration panel? I mean, if you are using a profile as a color correction technique, you've completely misunderstood the value and use of DNG profiles...

By the time you are in the Develop module, you should have already applied whatever "default" settings you want or whatever presets you've created...going down to the Camera Calibration panel inside of Develop essentially means you've punted on color correction and you are flailing about and trying anything to "fix" you base level color corrections...

Look, the order of the panels in Lightroom ain't gonna be changed because of a few posts in an obscure web forum...the position of the panel simply does not raise to the level of mission critical.

But let's get back to the whole choice of the "default" DNG profile you are using...are you not using Adobe Standard? Why?


Agree completely. Calibration is working for images just fine where it is. It's a wonderful thing easy to do, but I cannot see how making it more prominent will keep the attractive visual GUI as easy to use for most users. One step at a time.
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NikoJorj
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 05:13:30 AM »
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If that is an UI-related poll, I'll cast another vote for keeping it the way it is.
For me too, color profiles are meant to be applied as a default setting or with a preset, not as an adjustment.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 07:09:12 AM »
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I've made a number of Passport profiles under different lighting conditions and it's been my observation that the changes they bring about are extremely minor (but sometimes useful on certain landscape scenes where the lighting is tricky; camera is a Nikon D300).  I would agree with Jeff and Neil that there is really no need to change things around here.
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tokengirl
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 07:39:32 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
But let's get back to the whole choice of the "default" DNG profile you are using...are you not using Adobe Standard? Why?

I don't use it because I find it to be the second least attractive starting point for my taste (Camera Landscape being the butt-ugliest).  For me, Camera Neutral seems to work best and it's what I use most of the time.  I also downloaded a couple of custom DNG profiles for Kodachrome simulation (they were discussed on this forum at some point) that I find very useful as a starting point for certain photos as the reds have a certain "look" that is very hard to duplicate with color adjustments without affecting other colors in strange ways.

The bottom line for me is that using a profile that's closer to what I want in my end result means less work in color adjustments.  I really don't care if I'm using it "wrong", it works for me.
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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 07:57:53 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
ANGRY YELLY STUFF

Dude ... chill ... give us a little credit ... Lightroom is awesome and you've made great contributions to our craft, but some of us are clever, too.

It CLEARLY belongs at the top - for some of us.

Tom, Eric ... don't listen to Jeff ...

Make the panels re-orderable ... or move Calibration to the top of the stack ...
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Schewe
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 10:21:15 AM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Make the panels re-orderable ...


Ask for that and it would be something I could get behind...there are plenty of times I would rather have a different order than the fixed order. But NOT because I want a different item on top...

But that is a massive effort given the way the UI is designed, so I wouldn't hold my breath...
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 03:57:23 PM by Schewe » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 11:42:13 AM »
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Moving the entire Calibration area to the top would be a bad idea I agree. Unnecessary. I would however like a simple popup menu to select DNG profiles at the top. I often toggle various profiles (custom or not, edited in the DNG editor sometimes) to see the effect and select. Having to move to the bottom now is too much work and selecting a profile early in the process I feel is the right time to do so.
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Andrew Rodney
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 12:06:30 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Moving the entire Calibration area to the top would be a bad idea I agree. Unnecessary. I would however like a simple popup menu to select DNG profiles at the top. I often toggle various profiles (custom or not, edited in the DNG editor sometimes) to see the effect and select. Having to move to the bottom now is too much work and selecting a profile early in the process I feel is the right time to do so.

Bingo! Give that man a cigar. But of course we can have them in the custom presets folder on the left side menu.

As to why have the option to place the camera calibration menu in a more prominent position:

1) Not everything I , and  I suspect many others , shoot on the same card are shot under the same lighting conditions

2) As the  very knowledgeable Jeff Schewe once said: every parameter setting in Adobe Camera Raw can be used as a creative tool.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 12:39:54 PM by Ellis Vener » Logged

Ellis Vener
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tokengirl
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 12:09:56 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
I would however like a simple popup menu to select DNG profiles at the top.

I would be thrilled with that.  
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2010, 12:24:52 PM »
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I also take to heart Jeff's point about what major PiTA it would be to rearrange the Lr GUI.
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Ellis Vener
http://www.ellisvener.com
Creating photographs for advertising, corporate and industrial clients since 1984.
Ellis Vener
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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2010, 12:38:35 PM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Really...how often do you need to touch the Camera Calibration panel? I mean, if you are using a profile as a color correction technique, you've completely misunderstood the value and use of DNG profiles...

By the time you are in the Develop module, you should have already applied whatever "default" settings you want or whatever presets you've created...going down to the Camera Calibration panel inside of Develop essentially means you've punted on color correction and you are flailing about and trying anything to "fix" you base level color corrections...

Look, the order of the panels in Lightroom ain't gonna be changed because of a few posts in an obscure web forum...the position of the panel simply does not raise to the level of mission critical.

But let's get back to the whole choice of the "default" DNG profile you are using...are you not using Adobe Standard? Why?

1) I never touch the individual sliders in the Camera Calibration panel.
2) I do understand the the value and use of DNG profiles.
3) I'm not flailing about when I change to a different profile. I am doing it with purpose, your characterization of why I or other people use it is off base and unwarranted.
4) An "obscure web forum" that sometimes has important people from Adobe reading it. Whether the change is "mission critical" or not is a different question.
5)
Quote
But let's get back to the whole choice of the "default" DNG profile you are using...are you not using Adobe Standard? Why?
Because,  as with Hawaiian shirts, one size does not fit all.  The Adobe Standard Lr rightly defaults to unless another DNG profile is chosen during the import process, does not always yield the best results for every photograph.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 12:39:16 PM by Ellis Vener » Logged

Ellis Vener
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Creating photographs for advertising, corporate and industrial clients since 1984.
Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2010, 01:46:16 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Moving the entire Calibration area to the top would be a bad idea I agree. Unnecessary. I would however like a simple popup menu to select DNG profiles at the top. I often toggle various profiles (custom or not, edited in the DNG editor sometimes) to see the effect and select. Having to move to the bottom now is too much work and selecting a profile early in the process I feel is the right time to do so.
Agreed ... that's all I want, too ... quick access to the profiles at the top.

I made a presets folder, but I would rather go up and down than have the whole left side open just to enable that access.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 01:46:32 PM by Jeremy Payne » Logged
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