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Author Topic: H4D-40: Sample files  (Read 19620 times)
Dustbak
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2010, 11:23:04 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Maybe if you used Phocus 2.1 every single day, you'd just get used to this workflow, but with Canon RAW, it's just so easy with DPP. A picture is a picture -- it just lives on the drive as a CR2 RAW, and you open DPP, and there it is, ready to work on, and FAST. Maybe that's why I've resisted Lightroom -- it seems so bloated and slow, when there is a deadline looming, and you just need it fast and easy.

I'll try to download Phocus 2.1 on my Intel 17 laptop and play with it. But for me, to think about a Hasselblad purchase, it now requires another investment from my solid G5 PPC tower, to an Intel. So add a few more thousand dollars to the investment line. Again, Canon and DPP do not require that. Again, advantage Canon, for being fast, not bloated, and easy to work with.

Thanks.

You get used to the extra step from 3FR to FFF but many Hasselblad users agree with you and wish this was not necessary. You do need the latest and fastest hardware, if keeping processing time as short as possible is important to you.  

I have no problems meeting deadlines, naturally it is all about getting your self familiarized with a specific workflow.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 11:24:12 AM by Dustbak » Logged
Esben
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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2010, 12:27:35 PM »
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Hasselblad has two raw file formats; fff [ffffehhh] and 3FR [frrrruuurrrr]

The one format is recorded when shooting tethered and the other when shooting to CF cards.
When you shoot to CF cards the camera will write the files in 3FR. When you wish to work with the 3FR files in Phocus you would need to import and convert the 3FR files to fff. The 3FR files are readable by Adobe where fff files are not - at least not yet.

I don’t see the True Focus as a 100% everything-is-going-to-be-in-focus-from-now-on solution. I see it as an extension of the ‘focus and recompose’ work-way. True Focus will not compensate for moving models or if you change the distance from your subject. You would still have to focus and recompose as frequently as you used to, but the distance error that you would normally experience with any camera when recomposing is now compensated for.

I was testing the H4 with the 100mm at F.2.2 at about 6’ away from the person that I was photographing. I shot around 20 frames using True Focus. The focus was not exactly on the eyes every time, it was sometimes an inch off,  but I would address this to my or the subjects movements more than computational miscalculation. On all 20 frames I could see that the focus was closer to the point where I had pointed the True Focus then where the focus cross was pointing when pressing the shutter, which was typically somewhere at mid-chest level.






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fredjeang
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2010, 12:30:52 PM »
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Thanks for the link Michael.
Brillant, file at 200% still great.
I'll do an extreme post prod bad treatment when I have the time with the raw and will post it here.

Regards,

Fred.

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bwphoto
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2010, 02:00:57 PM »
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Was the model moving in the full length shots?  Looks like she was standing still. Was a tripod used?
Why would you use true focus on full length shots?  The face and her mid section would be on the same plane so why not just focus on her mid section with the center focus?  At f16 and 125 I would have expected a sharp image though.  I can see the benefit of true focus on close ups where eyes are not centered but doubt any benefit for full lengths.

Brian
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KLaban
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« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2010, 03:06:55 PM »
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In the full length shot the model's face is certainly soft, but at f/16 125sec I doubt subject movement was the problem.

I no longer notice the 3FR > FFF issue, it's amazing what you get used to.

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gwhitf
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« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2010, 03:52:10 PM »
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Quote from: KLaban
I no longer notice the 3FR > FFF issue, it's amazing what you get used to.

Is it possible to set the Prefs of Phocus to somehow when you opened Phocus it would automatically start to import them in the background? Like you'd just walk away and make some coffee or something and then come back and they were there, and ready to be altered?
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Dustbak
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2010, 04:15:24 PM »
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Euh...yeah. You can select all the 3FR files and import them.  You can also make custom adjustments and import batches of 3FR with those custom adjustments and walk away.

You come back and you have your files waiting for you with an initial adjustment.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 04:47:10 PM by Dustbak » Logged
KLaban
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« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2010, 05:35:37 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Is it possible to set the Prefs of Phocus to somehow when you opened Phocus it would automatically start to import them in the background? Like you'd just walk away and make some coffee or something and then come back and they were there, and ready to be altered?

As Dustbak has said, and as far as I know, you'd need to select the files to import and then make your coffee. I say "as far as I know", because despite using Phocus on an almost daily basis, when I listen to those who really know their way around this and other image processing software, it never ceases to amaze me how many possibilities I'm missing.

I guess, like most software, you can make things as simple or complex as you want.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 05:36:33 PM by KLaban » Logged

gwhitf
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« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2010, 05:48:10 PM »
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Quote from: KLaban
despite using Phocus on an almost daily basis, when I listen to those who really know their way around this and other image processing software, it never ceases to amaze me how many possibilities I'm missing.

I wish their was a simple YouTube video, where a real working photographer just set up his machine to come home after a job, and he talked in real world language, like a photographer, and not like a software engineer, and he'd say, "Do this, then do that, then make some coffee, then come back and do this", with Phocus.

I also watched one of the CaptureOne5 video tutorials, and the guy showed this slider bar called "Uniformity", which seemed to address a real issue that I saw when I shot PhaseOne backs, and that was a tendency for the skin tone to do this transition from Red around the nose and eyes, to yellowish in the middle skin of the face. It sounds so simple to fix, unless you're really in there doing it, or if you have twelve images to make match together. All this, with Phase, was radically dependent on the type of ICC input profile that was chosen. I had best luck to turn everything off and use "No Color Correction" with Phase, and then work from there. Everything else pumped up the saturation in the skin too much.

In that CaptureOne video, the guy corrected it, but he went way too far with the warmth. It's easy (or lazy) to just throw a bunch of warmth at a file, and say, "isn't that pretty", but sometimes, warm is not the right look for a shot. Somehow, that Uniformity slider bar seemed to reduce the difference from the Reds to the Yellows. To me, it seemed like a very valuable tool. I wonder if Phocus offers that. If you shoot people or Beauty, you really need it. That sample file that Michael posted, earlier in this thread, showed the same issue with Yellow-to-Red transitions, but I think it was made worse with so-so makeup technique.

http://www.phaseone.com/en/Software/Captur...-Tutorials.aspx

(down near bottom, in left column: SKIN)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 05:51:25 PM by gwhitf » Logged
Esben
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« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2010, 06:16:23 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Is it possible to set the Prefs of Phocus to somehow when you opened Phocus it would automatically start to import them in the background? Like you'd just walk away and make some coffee or something and then come back and they were there, and ready to be altered?





There is an option to make a drop folder on your desktop in Phocus:

Make a folder on your desktop and make it your capture destination folder in Phocus, go to File in the menu and check the Export The New Image Automatically option. You can now drag and drop a fff or 3FR file from the finder window to the folder on the desktop and Phocus will automatically detect and develop/convert the image in the background.

The option is to convert 3FR file into either DNG, TIFF, JPG, or a PSD but not into a fff file. The same goes for a fff file.






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gwhitf
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« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2010, 08:08:08 PM »
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Quote from: Esben
The option is to convert 3FR file into either DNG, TIFF, JPG, or a PSD but not into a fff file. The same goes for a fff file.

I'm not really talking about developing/converting them at this point. I'm just talking about quickly getting them off the CF card, and into Phocus, so that they're there to be readily adjusted and tweaked and worked with (ie, Contrast, Levels, Saturation, Exposure, inside of Phocus). I'm just asking if there's an automatic way to convert them to card status to the software status. And also fearing/wondering how long all this would take if you came home with two or three thousand frames from a day's job. Just to import them so I can sit down and start tweaking them, to create Web Galleries.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 08:35:17 PM by gwhitf » Logged
Nick-T
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« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2010, 08:53:10 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
I'm not really talking about developing/converting them at this point. I'm just talking about quickly getting them off the CF card, and into Phocus, so that they're there to be readily adjusted and tweaked and worked with (ie, Contrast, Levels, Saturation, Exposure, inside of Phocus). I'm just asking if there's an automatic way to convert them to card status to the software status. And also fearing/wondering how long all this would take if you came home with two or three thousand frames from a day's job. Just to import them so I can sit down and start tweaking them, to create Web Galleries.

You are basically importing/converting the files as you copy across so the process is the same as copying files off any other camera's CF card. The only difference would be if you had copied across a bunch of FFFs in the finder before importing them , though I have no idea why you'd do that.

To re-cap.

Put CF card in reader with Phocus running.

Phocus will (if you wish) detect the card and change the screen layout to reflect an import-centric layout (that you have chosen). Go through and select the files you want (or just select all) and hit import. At this point you have the option to apply some adjustments to the files as they come in or just bring them in vanilla.

Go and make a coffee (espresso if you have a FW800 reader).

Upon your return the files will be sitting there as FFFs in whatever folder you chose to import to.

Make your tweaks (file by file or to one then synchronise the others) or apply a preset set of tweaks to the files. These tweaks happen near instantly as you are not processing RAW data.

Hiit save and chose preview to export a 1000px (varies depending on camera and preferences) preview file from each master. Takes about 1 second per 10 images so 500 will take just under a minute.



Clear as mud?
Nick-T
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 08:59:09 PM by Nick-T » Logged

gwhitf
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« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2010, 09:06:26 PM »
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Quote from: Nick-T
Clear as mud?
Nick-T

I got it. Thanks.

http://hasselbladusa.com/products/phocus-video.aspx

Love the emphasis on GPS in the video. Who uses that? (T. Richardson? So high, he forgot where he shot the job?)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 09:19:04 PM by gwhitf » Logged
marc gerritsen
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« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2010, 12:58:53 AM »
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I am wondering how your experience is working with Phocus
as I find it at times very tedious especially in it's responsiveness
when I use any of the adjusting sliders there is always a delay before I can move them
same happens when i change the actual windows size.
when I want to export previews from about 50 fff files it takes 10 seconds for the dialogue box to appear for file location.
flexcolor is a klunker of a piece of soft ware but was always very responsive.
I work on a mac  4x 2.5 GHz powerPC G5 with 6.5 GB DDR2 sdram, should be fast enough, right?
so i am wondering!!??

cheers
Marc
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 12:59:32 AM by marc gerritsen » Logged

Dustbak
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« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2010, 02:59:14 AM »
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Nope, that is not fast enough, IMO at least and obviously yours too. Lets face it, though the G5 tower was a very adequate machine it still is years old!

I currently use a MacPro 2.26 octo-core with 24Gb of memory and 4drive striped Raid0 with an ATI4890 video card (the 1gb type). This is adequate at the moment.

Flexcolor still is, more stable and much faster. It does offer less functionality and renders the files less beautiful than Phocus. Flexcolor also has problems running on Snow Leopard (at least at my machine this is the case). Than again, I was able to get windows 3.11 running with around 5MB of files on my 486 in the early 90's...

I always liked Flexcolor but at a certain point it is time to move on. The G5 is introduced in 2003, the latest update in 2005, this makes this computer 7 to 5 years old.

I do feel there is room for improvement on the performance of Phocus. I personally find the performance on my machines, which are up to date, beneath what it should be, especially under certain conditions. I can cope with it and am certain performance will be addressed.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 03:13:19 AM by Dustbak » Logged
gwhitf
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2010, 04:37:34 AM »
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Quote from: Dustbak
I currently use a MacPro 2.26 octo-core with 24Gb of memory and 4drive striped Raid0 with an ATI4890 video card (the 1gb type).

Wait a second -- you're running a G5 Octo-Mom tower with twenty four gigs of RAM, with the sidepipes, and the mag wheels and the zebra stripes, and you feel that honestly, this machine is still a tad sluggish for Phocus? 24 gigs of RAM? Yikes, I am certainly in trouble then.

Can you honestly assess how you think a 17 MBP laptop would do, in the field, on location, if you were trying to tether on a fast paced job, with Phocus? If your hot rod is marginal, how would a puny MBP ever keep up, if you were shooting fast, tethered? Can you describe where you'd think you'd see a performance hit? Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 04:38:26 AM by gwhitf » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2010, 06:04:39 AM »
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There is a difference on how I use my machines in the field or in the studio. In the studio I process during the shoot, I have bridge running, PS. I run actions. I adjust in Phocus. I run music, I watch television on a small window on the screen when there is something I don't want to miss.  I find Phocus needs to be faster on this studio machine than it currently is under certain circumstances. I find it is slow in getting multishot images in, it slows down after about 30 shots. At that stage it gets about as fast as on my field machine, this is  weird and IMO should not happen.

Besides that, I find something is too slow pretty fast. I also don't like CS4 and think it is unacceptably slow. I hope CS5 will improve in this area. Speed is also a matter of perception. Where I tend to be more forgiving when I am working on my own in the studio sipping on my excellent espresso or cappucino. I am totally unforgiving when dealing with a client looking over my shoulder and 2 female stylists which are tapping their feet on the ground waiting for a multishot image to come in.

In the field I use an early 2008 MBP 15, 2.4Ghz with 6Gb of main memory. In single shot it can cope quite easily, though (as I mentioned in an other post before) don't expect it to fly. Take the pace down a bit and use the machine for capturing and gettting the images in. I rarely process on this machine during a shoot, only if I really have to but I try to avoid that at all times. I also use this machine to do multishot shoots, with this it needs to get 4 shots in, computate the final RAW (of 228MB) and get that in. This process I find is taking too long. It works for about 30shots after which it slows down too much. The good thing is that these sessions normally are slower than the faster paced sessions with people in it.

As mentioned processing or regularly adjusting images in Phocus in the field during a shoot is not what I do a lot because I do find Phocus too sluggish for that. Things like cropping and resizing take way too long.

What I do is; I set up Phocus the way I want it, eg. filenames, storage location, WB, exposure, etc (as much as possible). I shoot, I change naming during the shoot and that is about it. Coming home, I hook up the MBP to the MacPro and pump over the .FFF files. On that machine I do post-processing.

If I really have to I could do it on the MBP but that takes longer.

Did I mention I am waiting for the Arrandale MBP's  ?

BTW, the G5 is no longer, it has been Intel processors for a while now.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 06:51:05 AM by Dustbak » Logged
robert zimmerman
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« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2010, 08:39:38 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Can you honestly assess how you think a 17 MBP laptop would do, in the field, on location, if you were trying to tether on a fast paced job, with Phocus? If your hot rod is marginal, how would a puny MBP ever keep up, if you were shooting fast, tethered? Can you describe where you'd think you'd see a performance hit? Thanks.

I can.

It's kind of like shooting with a Canon tethered, and dropping a qualude at the exact moment you start shooting. The first 15 minutes go fine, then things start sloooowwwwiiinnnngg down, you feel all gigly because there is sooo much detail but right when thing start moving you stop and say, okkaaay, waaaiiitt a sec...gotta give the ccoooooommmmppuuuutter a miinnute to caaaaatch up.
Then you start again, but you can't quite catch up, you feel kind of dizzy and sluggish, I mean, you're laughing though, cause heh, 20 grand of equipment is on that stick between you and the model and you're just sitting there laughing...that's some funny sh*t. then you really start laughing your ass off, dreaming about the next upgrade and how pushing another 10 million pixels through the needle hole will cost you about as much as a new lighting set up... Holy moly this stuff is goooooood... and that true phocus stuff is gonna blow your mind man, focus, push button, frame, push button, push shutter relea... wait a sec. the computer... oh did i push that second time, hey, guy standing next to me, you're the assistant right? you got another one of those big funny pills man?
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gwhitf
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« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2010, 09:39:47 AM »
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Thank you both. I think I've got my answer about using Phocus in my world.

I think it sounds just fine, if I was a StillLife guy, working in the studio, with a tower, not shooting fast.

Thank you.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2010, 09:57:05 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Thank you both. I think I've got my answer about using Phocus in my world.

I think it sounds just fine, if I was a StillLife guy, working in the studio, with a tower, not shooting fast.

Thank you.

How fast would you normally work? What is your typical way of working? Maybe I can tell you more precise what to expect.
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