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Author Topic: Sony A900 replacement?  (Read 13896 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2010, 01:55:32 AM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Must be some screen ... I have essentially 20/10 vision and can't always nail it in the viewfinder.  My hit rate with LV is 100%, my hit rate with my eyes is significantly lower than that.

Yep, same thing here.

There are of course times when I manage to focus well manually without using live view, but the key notion is that of reliability. My personnal rough assessment is that I loose average between 5 and 30% of resolution in critical areas when I don't use live view. That is using one of the best lenses available (Zeiss 100mm f2.0, very bright and designed for manual focus) on the best tripod and head.

Just to give one example, the difference between perfect focus and inifitniy focus for far objects correponds to a linear movement of the focus ring of about .5mm and I see no difference at all in the viewfinder...

I am very impressed by those who are able to do these things on a regular basis without live view in whatever weather, luminosity or wind conditons. They have near sur-human abilities and should IMHO lobby for the addition of accurate manual focusing as an Olympic discipline.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2010, 02:03:32 AM »
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Quote from: ziocan
Well, LV will definitively be very useful if you shoot on tripod on front of a flower or a waterfall and have all the time of the world to peep on it, but how many photographers actually use their cameras like that?

I suggest a trip to Japan...

Cheers,
Bernard
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K.C.
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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2010, 02:13:20 AM »
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Maybe it's from all the years I looked down into the top of a Hasselblad and focused without anything other than a set of crosshairs on ground glass and seldom missed a shot. I certainly don't have perfect vision now in my 50s but I keep forgetting to use LV on the 5DII and don't bother with it half the time I do remember it's there.

I Love my A850 and prefer it any day over the Canon. LV is a mute point once you've worked with the A900 or A850. When the new body comes along next year, and has LV, that won't be reason enough to upgrade.

Flame me if you like, but it sounds silly and childish to hear anyone wanking about it.

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Theresa
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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2010, 06:29:32 AM »
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Quote from: K.C.
Maybe it's from all the years I looked down into the top of a Hasselblad and focused without anything other than a set of crosshairs on ground glass and seldom missed a shot. I certainly don't have perfect vision now in my 50s but I keep forgetting to use LV on the 5DII and don't bother with it half the time I do remember it's there.

I Love my A850 and prefer it any day over the Canon. LV is a mute point once you've worked with the A900 or A850. When the new body comes along next year, and has LV, that won't be reason enough to upgrade.

Flame me if you like, but it sounds silly and childish to hear anyone wanking about it.

I agree.  I would not buy an "upgraded" a9?? to replace my a850 for quite a while.  I am still just learning the camera and everything I've done with it so far would not be improved by an upgrade.  I'm certain that many out there, especially those that use a tripod would find LV very useful, but I'm not one of them at this time.  I also would not be served by better JPEGs as I only shoot raw.  I look forward to the a9?? because I believe it will be a great new draw for Sony.  No matter, my a850 suits me to a tee.
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ziocan
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2010, 06:41:03 AM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
I suggest a trip to Japan...

Cheers,
Bernard
I go to tokyo quite often.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2010, 03:41:38 PM »
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Quote from: ziocan
I go to tokyo quite often.

Hum... the millions of tripods used in Japan tend to prefer the countryside.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Fine_Art
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« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2010, 09:09:14 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Hi,
Well I have to say that Mike's wondering is apropriate.
I've heard very good critics from the A900 and A850 users, (starting from this website) and I thought that it would be very nice to have other choices than CaNikon.
But the "sad" reality is that thinking long term, CaNikon are the most reliable 35mm FF players.

Let's take the second-hand market for example. Here in Spain and also in France, there is a huge volume of accessories, lenses etc...in the second-hand market from Nikon and Canon. The volume of opoprtunities from Minolta, Sony is much discrete, and the lens range is limited. That is a point.

The CaNikon buyer knows that their gear's offers are stables and that the lenses you invest in, will always be served by constant up-dated bodies.
The vague comunication from Sony is not very encouraging, and it is possible that they might be interested in develloping other market (EVIL).
So, yes, wonderfull gear, but when it's time to buy I would wonder about the future of that system in the time.

I've been very attracted at one point by the Sony, unfortunately, if I had to invest in a FF 35mm now, I'll choose Canon or Nikon: no hassle, no worries, and an enormous amount of lenses and accessories new and second-hand for any kind of purpose.
That is a very important factor.

Fred.

I had no problem buying quality primes on ebay. My 20, 50, 100, 135, 180, 300G (with 1.4, 2x teles) are all stabilized. I have zooms as well that i almost never use.
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ziocan
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« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2010, 10:40:48 PM »
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One suggestion that I have for who is interested on a FF Sony, or any Sony DSLR, is of using only Sony/Zeiss and Minolta lenses.
Using anything else, it will defeat the whole purpose of having a Sony camera.

I have seen images from a900 taken with Sigma lenses and they do not look any different from images taken with a a Nikon or a Canon with a Sigma.
I know Sigma and Tokina lenses are very popular because of their price and some copies of those lenses are decent, but the look of the images they delivers is very uninteresting and cannot compare with Sony lenses.

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Dan Vincent
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« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2010, 06:48:22 AM »
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Quote from: ziocan
One suggestion that I have for who is interested on a FF Sony, or any Sony DSLR, is of using only Sony/Zeiss and Minolta lenses.
Using anything else, it will defeat the whole purpose of having a Sony camera.

I have seen images from a900 taken with Sigma lenses and they do not look any different from images taken with a a Nikon or a Canon with a Sigma.
I know Sigma and Tokina lenses are very popular because of their price and some copies of those lenses are decent, but the look of the images they delivers is very uninteresting and cannot compare with Sony lenses.

You''re forgetting that all Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lenses get image stabilization on Sony. This makes the non-stabilized 70-200s a very good competition to the more expensive Sony 70-200.

Now that Sigma and Tamron are getting on the IS/VC/whatever train some of that advantage may dissipate, but it is not something to ignore, especially on shorter lenses.

Now, if people were looking at Sigma 50-500s, for instance, I'd tell them to save the dough and get a 70-400G instead because that lens is just so much better in many ways.
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aaykay
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« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2010, 07:39:32 PM »
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I believe they are replacing the A900.  In fact, they have already done it months back........with the A850.  Ever since the release of the A850, all Sony was doing was running down the existing stock of the A900.  Once the stock is used up, the model is as good as gone.

This is because, IMHO, Sony misjudged the importance of 5FPS (in a 24.6MP camera) which simply is unavailable in anything close to its price range and also the 100% Full-frame OVF, which too is unavailable in anything but all-out professional models.  None of the professional reviewers or anybody else gave ANY credit whatsoever to Sony, for including these super-premium features  that were only available in all-out professional models, at the price-point the A900 was being sold for.  So all Sony is doing, is a "market segment adjustment", by retaining almost everything that came with the A900 in its "replacement" model, the A850, and downgrading a couple of its super-premium features (to the level offered by its true competitors - the Canon 5DII et al) by bringing down the FPS to 3 (roughly similar to the 3.9 in a 21MP camera like the 5DII) and bringing down the OVF accuracy to 98%.

As far as a purchaser is concerned, the A900 is a superb bargain and if they can pick one up for what it is being sold for currently, it is well worth it.  And if they can live without 5FPS or the 100% OVF (which is the only discernible difference between the A900 and A850), its literal TWIN, the A850 should also be seriously considered.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 07:43:14 PM by aaykay » Logged
aaykay
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« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2010, 07:48:19 PM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
IMHO the only reason somebody using a high-MP DSLR for tripod-based shooting wouldn't want live-view is because they've never used it. There is no better way to achieve critical focus on a DSLR than live-view. That's especially true for manual-focus and tilt/shift lenses, but even with AF lenses I've found the contrast-based live-view AF to be more precise than phase-detect AF. Plus you can set your focus point anywhere in the frame. And the higher the MP count in a camera, the more important focus accuracy becomes.

And I don't buy the 'cost' argument. Entry-level consumer DSLR's and P&S cameras have had live-view for years, it certainly wouldn't have affected the price point of the a900. Sony left it out because they mis-judged it's value to shooters in this market segment. The lower-level Sony's have a much-praised "live-mos" LV implementation that is great for hand-held, P&S-style shooting; but when Sony couldn't scale that up to full-frame they said they'd rather wait to add LV until they could do it "right". But LV isn't for P&S-style hand-held shooting in a camera like the a900, the whole point is being able to focus off the main sensor, so their argument that LV off the main sensor isn't worth bothering with is completely wrong-headed. Fact is since the time-frame of the Nikon D300/D3, LV has become a standard feature in CMOS-based DSLR's, with the two Sony full-frames being the only exception that I can think of.

As for the "preview" function Sony added in lieu of LV, all it really does is fave you the step of manually deleting your test shot. A small convenience, but hardly ground-breaking or indispensable IMHO.

I agree completely with the above.  I believe it was absolutely stupid of Sony to not include LV in the A900 (or A850).  Clearly, the circuitry to enable LV is already present in the sensor, since the basic sensor was then used in the D3X, which did come with LV.  Which is why I believe Sony deliberately did not enable LV in the A900 but can do so - even now, if they wish - via a firmware upgrade.  The "hardware" component of LV (the circuitry) is very much present in the A900/A850 sensors and simply need a firmware enable-ment.

As an A900 owner, I just love the product and the superb OVF, but do acknowledge that Sony was stupid to not include LV in the A900.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2010, 09:00:46 PM »
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Hi,

My guess is that it's not the sensor but probably the "Bionz" engine that does not support LV.

Best regards
Erik



Quote from: aaykay
I agree completely with the above.  I believe it was absolutely stupid of Sony to not include LV in the A900 (or A850).  Clearly, the circuitry to enable LV is already present in the sensor, since the basic sensor was then used in the D3X, which did come with LV.  Which is why I believe Sony deliberately did not enable LV in the A900 but can do so - even now, if they wish - via a firmware upgrade.  The "hardware" component of LV (the circuitry) is very much present in the A900/A850 sensors and simply need a firmware enable-ment.

As an A900 owner, I just love the product and the superb OVF, but do acknowledge that Sony was stupid to not include LV in the A900.
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douglasf13
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« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2010, 09:21:13 PM »
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To correct a couple of things mentioned,  the last three Sony APS-C cameras (A450, A500, A550)  have both main sensor and "quick" live view, and old Minolta manual lenses only fit on Sony if you do a mount replacement procedure.

As far as the A900 is concerned, main sensor live view would probably be handy, but, like is the case for MFDB users, it's not the end of the world.  It's pretty easy to shoot and check focus on the lcd when mounted on a tripod.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 09:23:30 PM by douglasf13 » Logged
ziocan
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« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2010, 10:37:45 PM »
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Quote from: aaykay
I believe they are replacing the A900.  In fact, they have already done it months back........with the A850.  Ever since the release of the A850, all Sony was doing was running down the existing stock of the A900.  Once the stock is used up, the model is as good as gone.

This is because, IMHO, Sony misjudged the importance of 5FPS (in a 24.6MP camera) which simply is unavailable in anything close to its price range and also the 100% Full-frame OVF, which too is unavailable in anything but all-out professional models.  None of the professional reviewers or anybody else gave ANY credit whatsoever to Sony, for including these super-premium features  that were only available in all-out professional models, at the price-point the A900 was being sold for.  So all Sony is doing, is a "market segment adjustment", by retaining almost everything that came with the A900 in its "replacement" model, the A850, and downgrading a couple of its super-premium features (to the level offered by its true competitors - the Canon 5DII et al) by bringing down the FPS to 3 (roughly similar to the 3.9 in a 21MP camera like the 5DII) and bringing down the OVF accuracy to 98%.

As far as a purchaser is concerned, the A900 is a superb bargain and if they can pick one up for what it is being sold for currently, it is well worth it.  And if they can live without 5FPS or the 100% OVF (which is the only discernible difference between the A900 and A850), its literal TWIN, the A850 should also be seriously considered.
You are some what right about the a850. on 90% of cases we do not need anything more than what it can offer.
Anyway, I would not consider 100% view finder, 5 fps as super premium features, for some people are a necessity. I would have paid the premium for the 5fps and 100% VF even if the a850 was already there when the a900 started shipping.
It is great that Sony offers the a850 for a bargain price, but with the a900, the line up look more professional.

The a900 as is , feels and works as good replacement for the 1ds3 and in many cases also for the Nikon. For those who prefer the Sony and Zeiss lenses to those of the others makers, it is also a better solution and not just because of the price. the lower price of the Sony was just a bonus to me and was not an element for making my buying decision.

As for the a850 having "replaced" the a900, I do not think is the case, if you go to any Sony style around the world, they have the an a900 on display to play with at all the times and not necessarily the a850 and on their windows there always is the large poster with the a900.
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douglasf13
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« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2010, 10:57:51 AM »
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I could be wrong, but, AFAIK, the A850 isn't even available in Japan. Only the A900 is available.
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K.C.
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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2010, 11:48:58 PM »
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Quote from: douglasf13
I could be wrong, but, AFAIK, the A850 isn't even available in Japan. Only the A900 is available.

Why do you post speculation ?

How is that a useful contribution ?

« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 11:49:48 PM by K.C. » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2010, 07:26:41 AM »
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That's a statement, not speculation. It may be correct or wrong.

Best Regards
Erik


Quote from: K.C.
Why do you post speculation ?

How is that a useful contribution ?
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ThomasKeenan
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« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2010, 10:22:38 PM »
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Concur, A850 not officially available in Japan.

* Not on Sony JP web-page.
http://www.sony.jp/dslr/

* Not found on kakaku.com or Amazon JP

* not on display in Sony Ginza show-room.

* Never saw in any store, Yodobashi, Bic, Yamada Denki, MapCamera etc...

BTW Prices on A900 are approx $2.1K USD now.

Perhaps there may be a grey market, like the outrageously priced name brand CF memory cards thru traditional retailers, but not aware and would very much complicate service and support.

While there is an A847 available it is a walkman, with main compelling feature for local market, displaying lyrics while song playing, for those J-pop songs which service is available and for a small fee to download lyrics.
http://www.sony.jp/playyou/eventmovie.html



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douglasf13
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« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2010, 07:32:20 PM »
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Quote from: K.C.
Why do you post speculation ?

How is that a useful contribution ?


I could be wrong, but, AFAIK, your post is the one that provides no contribution to this thread.    


As far as my post is concerned, it seemed relevant, considering some are speculating that A850 replaced the A900 all together.  I've heard from a few sources that the A850 is not available in Japan, but, not having been there, I can't confirm that myself.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 07:34:52 PM by douglasf13 » Logged
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