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Author Topic: IPF8300 and Epson Exhibition Fiber - Scratches  (Read 12848 times)
KevinMcD
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2010, 11:20:15 AM »
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Just curious if you've tried Ilford Galarie Gold or Canson Plantine (a bit thinner weight). Also one a side note, how is the B/W performance (neutral tone)?
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ednazarko
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2010, 12:20:28 PM »
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Quote from: shewhorn
That is 100% what I was expecting but I'm pleased to say that's not the line they've given me, totally opposite actually. I'm a little curious to maybe get some cut sheets of Canon Polished Rag. If the theory that this is only an issues with coated cut sheets then the Canon paper should exhibit scratches as well.

Cheers, Joe

I'm eager to hear what you find out.  I've only run a few cut sheets of 13x19, didn't have any problems with scratching. although they were Canon media and there were settings in the driver for them.  (Although there were NO settings with exactly the same name as the product name, I think I figured out the right ones to choose, so got a good result.)  The process for loading cut sheets seems pretty awful, though, and after those few prints found myself wondering if I would be able to load sheets of 17x22 or other bigger sizes without screwing up the paper, and without the printer mangling it as it sucked in the dangling cut sheet.  I've got a design in my head now for a "loading rack" to make it easier to load the cut sheets and if I have trouble with big sheets equivalent to what I did with 13x19, I may try building a prototype.
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JohnHeerema
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2010, 02:14:55 PM »
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Did you ever find a solution to the problem of printing Epson Exhibition Fiber on an Canon IPF8300?
After a glitch in ordering a Canon IPF6300, I'm thinking of buying an IPF8300 - but my main media type right now is Exhibition Fiber, in cut sheets - so, if that isn't going to work with the IPF8300, this would be a great time to find out!

Thanks!
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shewhorn
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2010, 02:20:14 PM »
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Quote from: JohnHeerema
Did you ever find a solution to the problem of printing Epson Exhibition Fiber on an Canon IPF8300?
After a glitch in ordering a Canon IPF6300, I'm thinking of buying an IPF8300 - but my main media type right now is Exhibition Fiber, in cut sheets - so, if that isn't going to work with the IPF8300, this would be a great time to find out!

Thanks!

Hi John,

No there was no solution. Canon's conclusion was that all gloss and semi-gloss cut sheets will be prone to scratching. Interestingly enough I have some of LexJet's "metallic" paper in cut sheets and I have not noticed any scratches on it. After spending some more time with the EEF I can confidently say that it's some of the most delicate paper I've handled.

If you want to use the EEF then the 6300 or 6350 is the better route to go. Transport is the same as the 6100 (which I also have) and I've not noticed any scratches when putting the EEF through the 6100.

Cheers, Joe
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JohnHeerema
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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 02:27:10 PM »
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Quote from: shewhorn
Hi John,

No there was no solution. Canon's conclusion was that all gloss and semi-gloss cut sheets will be prone to scratching. Interestingly enough I have some of LexJet's "metallic" paper in cut sheets and I have not noticed any scratches on it. After spending some more time with the EEF I can confidently say that it's some of the most delicate paper I've handled.

If you want to use the EEF then the 6300 or 6350 is the better route to go. Transport is the same as the 6100 (which I also have) and I've not noticed any scratches when putting the EEF through the 6100.

Cheers, Joe
Thanks for the update Joe!

Well, that leaves me in a bit of a quandary. The problem with any of the large format printers, is that they usually have a margin of an inch or so at the bottom. With the 8300, I thought that I could feed the media sideways, and get a useful 23x30 print, which for a lot of images would work better for me than 24x29.

But better to know now, than after spending a few thousand dollars on a printer that isn't going to do the job!

Thanks again,
John
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JohnHeerema
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 02:37:22 PM »
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Quote from: ednazarko
The process for loading cut sheets seems pretty awful, though, and after those few prints found myself wondering if I would be able to load sheets of 17x22 or other bigger sizes without screwing up the paper, and without the printer mangling it as it sucked in the dangling cut sheet.

Hmmm ... great heads-up for those of us who use cut media!
Can anyone comment on the cut sheet experience on the new Canons vs. the Epsons?
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shewhorn
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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 02:38:00 PM »
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Quote from: JohnHeerema
Thanks for the update Joe!

Well, that leaves me in a bit of a quandary. The problem with any of the large format printers, is that they usually have a margin of an inch or so at the bottom. With the 8300, I thought that I could feed the media sideways, and get a useful 23x30 print, which for a lot of images would work better for me than 24x29.

But better to know now, than after spending a few thousand dollars on a printer that isn't going to do the job!

Thanks again,
John

I was very disappointed WRT the EEF on the 8300 however... if you can find an alternative (there are many wonderful papers out there) that will work for you, the 8300 is really a fantastic machine. If you're in the US I'd encourage you to give Jason Adams a ring at Shades of Paper and let him know your dilemma. The guy is a walking encyclopedia of the fine art paper industry.

Cheers, Joe
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jgbowerman
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« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2010, 06:57:42 AM »
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I'm relatively new to using wide-format printers, and I have a question regarding the use of cut sheets.

I owned the 6100 and now have recently acquired the 8300. My question relating to the use of Epson Exhibition Fiber: Why not use this paper off the roll instead of cut sheets? Is it not practical to print off the roll and then cut? Pardon my ignorance on the subject. I have never used "cut sheets". I assume these are sheets cut from a roll. With the 6100, I had printhead strikes using sheet paper, and this was never a problem when using rolls, so I generally found printing off rolls to be a safer bet, cost effective, and easy enough to cut after printing. As goes my experience, one would assume this problem with scratches might be resolved printing from a roll.

I am still getting my 8300 up and running and have yet to make prints other than test prints and target profiles to evaluate MCT settings on third party papers.

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shewhorn
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« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2010, 01:54:01 PM »
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Quote from: peninsula
I'm relatively new to using wide-format printers, and I have a question regarding the use of cut sheets.

I owned the 6100 and now have recently acquired the 8300. My question relating to the use of Epson Exhibition Fiber: Why not use this paper off the roll instead of cut sheets? Is it not practical to print off the roll and then cut? Pardon my ignorance on the subject. I have never used "cut sheets". I assume these are sheets cut from a roll. With the 6100, I had printhead strikes using sheet paper, and this was never a problem when using rolls, so I generally found printing off rolls to be a safer bet, cost effective, and easy enough to cut after printing. As goes my experience, one would assume this problem with scratches might be resolved printing from a roll.

I am still getting my 8300 up and running and have yet to make prints other than test prints and target profiles to evaluate MCT settings on third party papers.

Until this month, EEF was not available in rolls (and it still hasn't begun shipping in rolls as of yet as far as I know).
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Scott O.
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« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2010, 07:05:42 PM »
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Quote from: shewhorn
No there was no solution. Canon's conclusion was that all gloss and semi-gloss cut sheets will be prone to scratching. Interestingly enough I have some of LexJet's "metallic" paper in cut sheets and I have not noticed any scratches on it. After spending some more time with the EEF I can confidently say that it's some of the most delicate paper I've handled.

Sorry about the 'solution' to your problem but I agree with your conclusion.  I use EFF with an Epson 7900.  I have had no issues with the printer, but learned that I better be pretty darn careful with the print after it comes out of the printer.  But I do really like the paper, so it is worth the extra care it requires.
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shewhorn
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« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2010, 07:09:21 PM »
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Now that EEF is going to be available in rolls in the US... that should be another solution to the problem.

Cheers, Joe
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deanwork
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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2010, 09:27:36 PM »
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The Epson Exhibition Fine Art paper is too thick. If you want to use this media, go back to the original form of it, the Innova UltraSmooth Gloss. It is the same media but not so thick and available in sheets and rolls of all sizes. And as has been stated before the Crane Silver Rag that Canon is rebranding is not as thick either, nor is the Cone Type 5 that is a better product than any of these, as the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta that I use with the HP Z3100. You are certainly not stuck with the Epson media in this category by any stretch of the imagination. The Innova Semi-Matte may be the very best of all of the brighter white sheets of this kind. Check it out also, it is a great paper if you are looking to emulate gelatin silver emulsions.

From what I have read in the first review of the IPF8300, these new Lucia inks are showing the absolutely smoothest result in regard to gloss performance with the latest gloss fiber media. This is actually one of the reasons I want to buy one of these printers myself. It just seems to me like Epson is doing everything they can to keep better papers like Canson and Hahnemuhle out of their printers and in the process annoying the hell out of everyone. I don't like any of their media period. That alone would keep me away from the 9900, along with the continued poor MK to PK switching and constant head cleanings.
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shewhorn
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« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2010, 10:26:36 PM »
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And as has been stated before the Crane Silver Rag that Canon is rebranding is not as thick either,

Really? I have a roll of both right now... I don't think it's the same stuff at all, at least not the rolls I have. The color temperature is different as is the texture. They're very similar, enough so that I took a look at each very closely thinking it was a rebranding but the Canon Polished Rag is warmer than the CM Silver Rag and the texture is slightly different as well. If they are the same, I'd say the manufacturing tolerances are pretty poor.

As for Exhibition Fibre being too thick? I don't think so. It's certainly not as thick as some of the other papers I use without any problems at all and if it was indeed too thick then this printer wouldn't be able to print to canvas. The Crane Museo retains far more curl than the EEF and is a little more stubborn to handle yet I have no issues with it.

I've tried the Hahnemuhle Photo Ray Baryta and while it's nice, compared to Canson Platine, and Ilford's offerings, I fine the Hahnemuhle to be rather.... sparkly. There's something I like about each paper. I haven't tried the Fine Art Baryta from HFA yet.

At any rate, WRT EEF I've decided that given how extremely fragile it is (I've tried the Innova paper you suggested as well), I just don't want to deal with it. It scratches REALLY easily.

Quote
The Innova Semi-Matte may be the very best of all of the brighter white sheets of this kind. Check it out also, it is a great paper if you are looking to emulate gelatin silver emulsions.

Semi-matte? Not sure I've tried that yet. Is that similar in concept to HFA's satin paper?

Quote
From what I have read in the first review of the IPF8300, these new Lucia inks are showing the absolutely smoothest result in regard to gloss performance with the latest gloss fiber media. This is actually one of the reasons I want to buy one of these printers myself. It just seems to me like Epson is doing everything they can to keep better papers like Canson and Hahnemuhle out of their printers and in the process annoying the hell out of everyone. I don't like any of their media period. That alone would keep me away from the 9900, along with the continued poor MK to PK switching and constant head cleanings.

It's not completely free of gloss differential, it's there but it's not really an issue. Harman FB AL Warmtone does particularly well in that regard.

Cheers, Joe
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deanwork
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« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2010, 08:36:21 AM »
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The Innova Semi-Matte is also called Satin in Europe, has a texture and look that is different than any that I've tried. To me it really looks the most like gelatin silver, and unlike the similar Innova Ultrasmooth Gloss ( Epson Exhibition fiber is a thicker version of that) it doesn't produce glare and reflections when viewing on the table or in a portfolio, but it still retains the same dynamic range. There are only two issues I have with it, first like the Ultrasmooth it has a significant amount of optical brightners in it, putting is slightly on the cool side, and second the rolls, like most of these papers can curl a lot and smaller prints have to be flattened.

The other great one is the Cone Type 5. To me it a perfected version of Silver Rag, with no oba to burn out. Slightly more texture than the Innova Satin, but a good believable texture that doen't look machine made like so many of them. Actually on the Z3100 it completely eliminates any gloss differential, even on black and white. With the Innova papers I still feel I need to do a light uv spray on them.

john
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