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Author Topic: Lightroom 3B2 Weird Behavior  (Read 2709 times)
tokengirl
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« on: April 12, 2010, 07:51:54 AM »
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I was working on a photo in LR3B2 yesterday.  I was in the Develop module, and I got the photo to where I wanted it to be:

 

Then I went back to the Develop module, and the photo rendered as it should.

 


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fredjeang
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 08:05:16 AM »
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Hi.
The suddenness of the changes makes me think of a calibration issue.
I'm far from being a Lightroom guru, but had a similar problem with C1 and it was a calibration issue.
Just writing that lines a pop up jumped on my computer screen saying "time to recalibrate your monitor...bla bla..."

Interested to see what others saw.

Cheers,

Fred.

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John R Smith
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 08:15:10 AM »
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tokengirl

Presumably, in order to take the screenshots you have posted here, you are able to consistently replicate this behaviour?  What happens if you save the edit settings from this image as a Develop preset, and then apply that preset to another image or images? Does the same thing happen, consistently?

If so, you should mail your findings to the LR Team at Adobe Labs.

John
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elied
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 08:21:44 AM »
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One explanation might be that LR3 does not show the effects of the Detail panel, sharpening and NR, at all zoom levels for all images. With those images that are considered to be low noise (and this determination differs according to the camera model) the effects are shown only at 100% zoom. For high noise images the display is redrawn at all levels. However, in the Library module the display image for all images and at all levels is updated to show the Detail editing.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 08:35:14 AM »
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Sorry.
Ignore my first post. I did not understood first well enough (really need more english lessons NOW   ) and it has nothing to do of course with the problem I had with C1.
I had to reread it 5 times with opened dictonnary to realised my mistake.

Cheers.
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tokengirl
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 09:39:54 AM »
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Quote from: John R Smith
tokengirl
What happens if you save the edit settings from this image as a Develop preset, and then apply that preset to another image or images? Does the same thing happen, consistently?

Yes it does.

later tonight when I have some time, I am going to make a virtual copy of the original photo and redevelop it using the same settings, but I am going to check for this behavior after each and every step in the development process to see where exactly things go funky.  Will report my findings.
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John R Smith
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 09:44:38 AM »
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Quote from: tokengirl
Yes it does.

later tonight when I have some time, I am going to make a virtual copy of the original photo and redevelop it using the same settings, but I am going to check for this behavior after each and every step in the development process to see where exactly things go funky.  Will report my findings.

Right. How about posting your develop settings here (top to bottom - starting with EV) so we can see if we can replicate this on our LR3 b2 setups?

Oh - Fred, your English is a hell of a sight better than my Spanish. Nothing to apologise for.

John
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 09:53:47 AM by John R Smith » Logged

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jmwscot
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 12:04:32 PM »
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Quote from: tokengirl
With this particular photo, I overused and abused the sharpening, NR, grain tool and post-crop vignetting tools in extreme amounts that I do not typically use.  
It's your sharpening. If you're using the Landscape sharpen preset as supplied (or higher levels of sharpen) it will be too aggressive, Try a setting of 40% 0.8 radius and detail of 10 or less. I had terrible trouble with 3200ASA Canon 1ds Mk3 raw files using the Landscape or default setting. Jeff Schewe suggested reducing the detail slider and that did the trick.

John
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tokengirl
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 07:09:40 PM »
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Quote from: jmwscot
It's your sharpening. If you're using the Landscape sharpen preset as supplied (or higher levels of sharpen) it will be too aggressive, Try a setting of 40% 0.8 radius and detail of 10 or less. I had terrible trouble with 3200ASA Canon 1ds Mk3 raw files using the Landscape or default setting. Jeff Schewe suggested reducing the detail slider and that did the trick.

John


Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner!

It is indeed the sharpening.  Apparently, the preview of the sharpening applied in the Develop module is not anything like what is actually applied when you start really pushing it.  Specifically, it's the Detail slider that will give you a nasty little surprise - I had it set to 75, and as I reduced it, the problem got less severe (10 to 15 is where it will stop having this bizarre effect).  What I was initially after was the "crunchy" look, but what I got was something else...    

Lesson learned:  apply "special effects" sharpening in Photoshop, where you can see exactly what you are getting.


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John R Smith
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 03:03:44 AM »
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This brings to mind a related problem which I am finding with LR. One can only view the effects of the Detail Panel at 1:1 or greater (sharpening and noise removal etc). But with my 39MP files 1:1 is at such a ridiculous degree of enlargement that I can't see the result of my editing as it relates to the whole picture (or a reasonable part of it), only a tiny section of it. So I often seem to end up applying my sharpening to some tiny trees on the horizon, for example, just to get a feel for what is going on. Now this is not exactly Lightroom's fault, of course, but it puts me right off the idea of a 60MP back (or probably 100MP in a few years time). I'll end up having to judge my sharpening on a single blade of grass about 50 feet away. This may be fine for the fashion and glamour photographers here, who are happy to sharpen just the eyelashes of the model, but I am just not used to dealing with my pictures at this level of forensic detail.

John
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 03:27:35 AM »
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Quote from: tokengirl
Lesson learned:  apply "special effects" sharpening in Photoshop, where you can see exactly what you are getting.

You don't need to use Photoshop. In Lightroom you must view any treatments at 100%. If you do that, what you see in the develop module will print or export.

John
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tokengirl
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 05:47:00 AM »
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Quote from: John R Smith
This brings to mind a related problem which I am finding with LR. One can only view the effects of the Detail Panel at 1:1 or greater (sharpening and noise removal etc). But with my 39MP files 1:1 is at such a ridiculous degree of enlargement that I can't see the result of my editing as it relates to the whole picture (or a reasonable part of it), only a tiny section of it. So I often seem to end up applying my sharpening to some tiny trees on the horizon, for example, just to get a feel for what is going on. Now this is not exactly Lightroom's fault, of course, but it puts me right off the idea of a 60MP back (or probably 100MP in a few years time). I'll end up having to judge my sharpening on a single blade of grass about 50 feet away. This may be fine for the fashion and glamour photographers here, who are happy to sharpen just the eyelashes of the model, but I am just not used to dealing with my pictures at this level of forensic detail.

John

I agree very much.  If I have a photo that I intend to print only at 8" x 10", viewing (a small part of) it at 1:1 isn't really all that helpful.  I'm better off sending it to Photoshop, resizing it, then applying the sharpening needed at that size.  

I ended up going in a different direction on this photo anyways, I used Silver Efex Pro for the B&W conversion and grain addition:



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BlackSmith
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 11:02:32 AM »
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Quote from: tokengirl
Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner!

It is indeed the sharpening.  Apparently, the preview of the sharpening applied in the Develop module is not anything like what is actually applied when you start really pushing it.  Specifically, it's the Detail slider that will give you a nasty little surprise - I had it set to 75, and as I reduced it, the problem got less severe (10 to 15 is where it will stop having this bizarre effect).  What I was initially after was the "crunchy" look, but what I got was something else...    

Lesson learned:  apply "special effects" sharpening in Photoshop, where you can see exactly what you are getting.

Okay, now I'm lost. This thread seemed to address a problem I was seeing, but the solution did not work for me. I'm seeing what appears to be different output tone curves near black (maybe related to color management) applied to the same image whether it is viewed in the develop module or in the library module.

Here's the image, adjusted how I would like it - displayed in the develop module at 1:1 viewing the lower right hand corner of a beach sunset:
[attachment=21473:DevelopView.jpg]
And here is the image displayed in the library module (this is also what I get when exporting a tiff or jpeg):
[attachment=21474:LibraryView.jpg]
I hope the differences are visible after converting the screenshots to jpg and viewed with your web browser - you may need to download them.

Any advice on what I'm missing would be appreciated.
This comes from Version 3.0 Beta 2 - 662985,
running on a macbook pro with OS X 10.5.8.
My display was calibrated with a colormunki which, I understand tends to block up the darks. So that may be accentuating the differences for me - but there certainly is a difference.
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John R Smith
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 11:04:52 AM »
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Quote from: tokengirl
I agree very much.  If I have a photo that I intend to print only at 8" x 10", viewing (a small part of) it at 1:1 isn't really all that helpful.  I'm better off sending it to Photoshop, resizing it, then applying the sharpening needed at that size.

Claire - Yes, that's what I am used to doing with my film scans. I apply no capture sharpening at all (they don't seem to need any), resample them to print size (usually 8x10 ins or so), and then apply the output sharpening just before printing. Now, with my new digital back, I am having to re-think my whole approach. I like your photo a lot, by the way. I do some still-life myself, but not really in a controlled fashion like you - usually just with found objects around the house and garden. I do enjoy the discipline of still-life, though, which is very different to my normal work.

John
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fredjeang
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 03:56:43 PM »
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Yes, this is a strong Claire's photograph. The title is appropriate. First from the distance I thought that the central leave was a dead bird.
Bravo.

Cheers.
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