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Author Topic: CS5 help!  (Read 5084 times)
alban
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« on: April 30, 2010, 10:03:57 AM »
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What is the best way to have the plug-ins transferred from CS4  to work with CS5?  


   Thank you in advance
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 10:06:51 AM »
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The usual approach to date has been to re-install them and hope they are compatible.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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alban
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 10:16:06 AM »
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Quote from: Mark D Segal
The usual approach to date has been to re-install them and hope they are compatible.

Re-install everything? How about ,copy/paste to the new location? Will this work?
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 10:21:00 AM »
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Not necessarily. These plug-ins are applications, not data files.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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alban
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 10:24:19 AM »
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Quote from: Mark D Segal
Not necessarily. These plug-ins are applications, not data files.


 So if I copy/paste the on CS5 and try to update them through CS5 wouldn't work?

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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 10:29:00 AM »
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Different plug-ins work differently. I suggest you check the documentation with each one of them to see how they tell you to install them and do that. The safest thing to do is to reinstall them dirextly into CS5 according to the providers' instructions. If you have your serial numbers and the application downloads filed (or can redownload the latest versions from their websites) it's often the surest way, unless it happens to be a plug-in that was originally installed using a copy/paste operation.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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alban
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 10:30:33 AM »
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Quote from: Mark D Segal
Different plug-ins work differently. I suggest you check the documentation with each one of them to see how they tell you to install them and do that. The safest thing to do is to reinstall them dirextly into CS5 according to the providers' instructions. If you have your serial numbers and the application downloads filed (or can redownload the latest versions from their websites) it's often the surest way, unless it happens to be a plug-in that was originally installed using a copy/paste operation.


I guess I will go for the safest way and re-install everything.Thanks for taking the time with this


  Best


Alban
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 05:13:38 PM »
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I'll echo what Mark said about reinstalling the plug-ins.  The last time I upgraded CS, I tried just copying the plug-ins to the new folder.  It *sorta* worked, but CS was constantly crashing or freezing.  After I reinstalled them (after someone else suggested it), everything worked well again.

Lisa
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jerryrock
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 05:27:47 PM »
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If you are installing Photoshop CS5 on a Mac chances are your plug-ins are not going to be compatible because the default is now 64bit. While you can run Photoshop in 32bit mode you will loose access to ram above 3 Gigabytes. TWAIN scanner divers will not function in the 64 bit version either.

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Gerald J Skrocki
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 05:43:27 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
TWAIN scanner divers will not function in the 64 bit version either.

Good point.  On Windows you can use WIA if your device is supported.  On OSX you will need to revert to 32bit mode.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 06:55:40 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
If you are installing Photoshop CS5 on a Mac chances are your plug-ins are not going to be compatible because the default is now 64bit. While you can run Photoshop in 32bit mode you will loose access to ram above 3 Gigabytes. TWAIN scanner divers will not function in the 64 bit version either.

Jerry, if the scanner manufacturers and their software writers are still in business, presumably they would be writing compatible drivers, wouldn't you think?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 09:28:24 PM »
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Quote from: Mark D Segal
Jerry, if the scanner manufacturers and their software writers are still in business, presumably they would be writing compatible drivers, wouldn't you think?

It's not just the drivers, Mark, and the demand for 64 bit scanner drivers is not necessarily that high for existing/older models.  Newer models are more likely to get support - there's not a lot of value from as a business proposition in writing 64 bit drivers for older models with such low demand.  The main issue is TWAIN itself, the lack thereof being more disincentive to write drivers, since the increased demand (ie through PS) still wouldn't be able to use it directly.

Windows has WIA which has 64 bit support, so with a 64 bit driver you're in business.  OS X doesn't have a 64 bit TWAIN which means someone needs to write one before you can interact directly with PS x64 on OS X.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 10:07:57 PM »
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Well, if we're talking new models of film scanners - not a lot out there any longer. The bigger concern is the legacy products which many thousands of people will not with to abandon, while at the same time you may well be correct about manufacturers' and others' positioning in respect of up-dating drivers, maintaining TWAIN, etc. So perhaps what this means for Mac users is to load their computers with a 32 bit version of Windows 7 and do the scanning from there.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2010, 12:20:07 AM »
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Quote from: Mark D Segal
Well, if we're talking new models of film scanners - not a lot out there any longer. The bigger concern is the legacy products which many thousands of people will not with to abandon, while at the same time you may well be correct about manufacturers' and others' positioning in respect of up-dating drivers, maintaining TWAIN, etc. So perhaps what this means for Mac users is to load their computers with a 32 bit version of Windows 7 and do the scanning from there.

Errr, no.  Just run OS X PS CS5 in 32bit mode if you need to scan directly into PS.  Alterantively, use the vendor supplied software (Epson Scan, for example) and create a TIFF and then edit it.

For Windows users, use WIA or run the 32bit version of PS or as per above use the Vendor app.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2010, 07:16:04 AM »
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Phil, let's unpack this issue a bit. Seeral things at play: the bit count of the OS, the bit count of the scanning application, what the scanner driver does and what the scanner software does. I'm using Windows, so I'm less familiar with how this would work on a Mac O/S, so let us stick with Windows for the moment. I am given to understand - haven't tested it myself - that if I run a 64-bit OS I need 64 bit apps to work with it. To operate a scanner I need two things: a scanner driver which works with the OS on my computer, and a scanning application which directs the driver. The two need not be in the same bundle and often aren't.

Now, for all those folks, like me, who have high quality film scanners (for example a Minolta DSE 5400 1 or 2, a Nikon Coolscan in one of its various vintages - all discontinued hardware but top of its class) - the drivers for these scanners are TWAIN and designed for 32 bit OS. regardless if the driver, users have the choice of using the manufacturer's bundled software for adjusting the image parameters before scanning, or using a third-party application such as SilverFast or Vuescan for the same purpose, or making no adjustments and doing everything post-scan in Lightroom or Photoshop.

For people who own such scanners (and there are very few options left on the market for replacing them at comparable image quality) contemplating an ugrade from 32-bit to 64-bit OS, or switching from say Windows 32 bit to Mac 64 bit, where does that leave them with their scanners? Do they become book-ends, or are there linkages of compatibility that would allow OS, scanner driver and scaning application to play well with eachother? Does one need to maintain the hardware and software on hand to switch back to 32-bit come hell or high-water to use these scanners, and if so, what's the best way to achieve that? Not clear to me that we've parsed this one fully yet. The answer could be it depends, it depends...........
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2010, 09:25:58 AM »
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The Mac version of Photoshop CS5 defaults to 64bit but can be started in 32bit mode to accommodate TWAIN drivers if the user wishes to do so, loosing the support for RAM over 3 GB.

The use of a separate scanner application is still the best way to go. If you are going to run the applications simultaneously, don't allocate all of your ram for Photoshop in preferences.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2010, 09:27:55 AM »
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Quote from: Mark D Segal
For people who own such scanners (and there are very few options left on the market for replacing them at comparable image quality) contemplating an ugrade from 32-bit to 64-bit OS, or switching from say Windows 32 bit to Mac 64 bit, where does that leave them with their scanners? Do they become book-ends, or are there linkages of compatibility that would allow OS, scanner driver and scaning application to play well with eachother? Does one need to maintain the hardware and software on hand to switch back to 32-bit come hell or high-water to use these scanners, and if so, what's the best way to achieve that? Not clear to me that we've parsed this one fully yet. The answer could be it depends, it depends...........

Hi Mark,

My DIMAGE Scan Elite 5400 works fine on a 64-bit Vista Ultimate OS, when using VueScan Pro as its driver.

Cheers,
Bart
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2010, 10:12:13 AM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
The Mac version of Photoshop CS5 defaults to 64bit but can be started in 32bit mode to accommodate TWAIN drivers if the user wishes to do so, loosing the support for RAM over 3 GB.

The use of a separate scanner application is still the best way to go. If you are going to run the applications simultaneously, don't allocate all of your ram for Photoshop in preferences.

Jerry, yes I agree a separate scanner application is the best approach for managing the scanning, and yes, generally allocating about 55%~65% of RAM for Photoshop is adequate.

Phil mentioned that there is no TWAIN in Mac OSX 64 bit, so fine to open PS in 32 bit, but if Mac OSX is 64-bit, what is there to drive the hardware?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2010, 05:58:33 PM »
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Some further clarification here to answer some good questions raised by Mark.

Both Windows (XP 64, Vista 64 and 7 64) and OS X 64 can run 32bit apps.

So in Mark's case on Windows moving to, say, Win 7 x64 and installing CS4 or CS5 will install both the 32 bit and 64 bit versions of the app and you can choose which one to run.

In the case of scanners, your scanner software can be run on a 64 bit OS even if the app is 32 bit.  Where the problem occurs is if the *driver* is only 32 bit, because the driver needs to be native to the OS bit level.  This is where you may need to be a little creative.  For example, Bart mentioned using Vuescan to drive his scanner, so he's not relying on a native driver.  Other options include Windows automatically installing support (they have HUGE support for legacy devices and often you can just connect them and Windows will get it working).  Many vendors are also providing 64 bit drivers anyway.

In short, making the scanner work is not really a problem.  It's only interfacing directly with PS that might be an issue if you are running PS as a 64 bit app.  Again, for Windows, you can use WIA in some cases or just run the 32bit PS.  For OS X, you will need to start the app in 32 bit mode or wait for someone to come out with a 64 bit TWAIN.

In your particular case, Mark, I'd suggest that Vuescan or Silverfast are your best options for obtaining the highest quality.  For "quick and dirty" you can possibly use WIA or if not, then just use the aforementioned apps - all this assuming you can't just get vendor support which likely you can - a quick google shows lots of people getting Coolscans working under Vista 64 and Win 7 64.

I hope I haven't confused things further :-)
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2010, 06:38:28 PM »
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Hi Phil, and thanks - no you haven't confused things further - this is helpful. As for SilverFast, I've been using it for years and have written several articles about working in SilverFast published on this website. I also have Vuescan Pro and have used it as well. SilverFast as you know is scanner-specific and LSI has up-dated many of their versions for Snow Leopard, as listed onj their website. Apple has no drivers for popular peripherals such as Nikon film scanners or the Epson Stylus Pro 3800 printer. Special care is needed to make sure one's peripherals will work before adopting a new OS.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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