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Author Topic: the view from my new home  (Read 7408 times)
shutterpup
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2010, 08:36:52 PM »
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Quote from: Rob C
That's probably why all of us have drifted into the arms of LuLa - calm, peace, cordiality, it's all here!

Rob C
 

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shutterpup
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2010, 08:38:17 PM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Except when 35mm vs MFD shows up
 
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shutterpup
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2010, 08:41:41 PM »
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Quote from: DarkPenguin
Without being there I really don't know.

So it's a subjective evaluation and not necessarily an objective one? I can live with that as long as I know that's where the comment is coming from. But in the past you(the collective you of those offering critique)have occasionally acted as though they had all the answers. I guess you all don't after all:)
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2010, 09:14:45 PM »
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Quote from: wolfnowl
... Different perspective, different scene, different lens, different...
... photographer?
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Slobodan

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« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2010, 09:42:00 PM »
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Quote from: shutterpup
So it's a subjective evaluation and not necessarily an objective one? I can live with that as long as I know that's where the comment is coming from. But in the past you(the collective you of those offering critique)have occasionally acted as though they had all the answers. I guess you all don't after all:)

Guess not.

You said the photo you wanted to take needed a foreground.  The one presented isn't good.  (To me it looks like the Zodiac murdering someone on the beach.)  About all I can offer is "put something else in the foreground".  What that might be I have no idea.  You're the one on the ground.

Or were you looking for a crop?  Try cropping to the right of the tree and at the outcrop of land the tree is on.  Oooo..  a crop suggestion.  I hear Russ stirring now...
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2010, 09:52:53 PM »
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Quote from: shutterpup
... in the past you ... have occasionally acted as though they had all the answers. I guess you all don't after all:)
This sounds (to me at least) as if you are blaming us for not having the answer how you could have made it a spectacular photograph? It also sounds like you are presupposing there are "secret recipes of spectacular photography", but we just do not know them that well.

In my humble opinion, there are no "recipes", especially not deliverable in a few forum postings. There are however, tools and ingredients (that one can learn over time), but how well you mix them into your own recipe depends either on your talent or on years of honing whatever skills you were born with. You know, "nature vs. nurture" debate.
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Slobodan

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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2010, 10:09:42 PM »
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Quote from: shutterpup
... I find that this place rests my spirit better than any other I've found. The quietness, calmness, the near solitude...
Now, this is something I consider extremely important when shooting: a feeling for the place and moment. You got that. The next step would be to align what is in your head (or heart) with what is in the final photograph. And, in the case of your photograph, this is where I sense the disconnect between the intention and the result: the photo seems too "busy" to be able to communicate "calmness". Too many things going around, trees, branches, stumps, bushes, surfaces, etc. Perhaps finding an angle that would concentrate on just a few elements of the scene against the monochromatic color of the sky and its reflection would better suit the calmness theme.
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Slobodan

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shutterpup
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« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2010, 11:17:00 PM »
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Quote from: DarkPenguin
You said the photo you wanted to take needed a foreground.  The one presented isn't good.  (To me it looks like the Zodiac murdering someone on the beach.)  About all I can offer is "put something else in the foreground".  What that might be I have no idea.  You're the one on the ground.

I love your analogy of the foreground to the Zodiac killer because that's what I see when I look at the foreground also:) I'll go back out and find that angle and then avoid it like the plague!

Nope. Don't want to crop. Want to learn better composition while taking the picture instead of cropping the heck out of it afterwards.

By the way, thanks for the conversation here.
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shutterpup
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« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2010, 11:25:32 PM »
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Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic
This sounds (to me at least) as if you are blaming us for not having the answer how you could have made it a spectacular photograph? It also sounds like you are presupposing there are "secret recipes of spectacular photography", but we just do not know them that well.

In my humble opinion, there are no "recipes", especially not deliverable in a few forum postings. There are however, tools and ingredients (that one can learn over time), but how well you mix them into your own recipe depends either on your talent or on years of honing whatever skills you were born with. You know, "nature vs. nurture" debate.

I agree with what you're saying about no magic recipes. And I'm sorry that it may have come off that I am blaming the collective you on the fact that I've not taken an effective photograph. I'm just frustrated that what was in my heart did not translate the way I'd hoped. Time for me to go back and try again.
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shutterpup
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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2010, 11:28:50 PM »
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Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic
Now, this is something I consider extremely important when shooting: a feeling for the place and moment. You got that. The next step would be to align what is in your head (or heart) with what is in the final photograph. And, in the case of your photograph, this is where I sense the disconnect between the intention and the result: the photo seems too "busy" to be able to communicate "calmness". Too many things going around, trees, branches, stumps, bushes, surfaces, etc. Perhaps finding an angle that would concentrate on just a few elements of the scene against the monochromatic color of the sky and its reflection would better suit the calmness theme.

I hadn't thought of this as being a "busy" photo but I can see why you'd say that. As you've said, simplification would go a long way to achieving the calmness theme that I'd like to present.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, and especially for getting past what I inconsiderately said about the collective you. It was not meant to flame.
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alainbriot
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2010, 01:29:35 AM »
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Shutter Pup,

This is how I would interpret your image to make it more similar to what I like:



Eventually all art is a reflection of the artist.  In helping others improve their work we often point to what we like ourselves.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 01:29:59 AM by alainbriot » Logged

Alain Briot
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http://www.beautiful-landscape.com
shutterpup
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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2010, 02:16:06 PM »
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Quote from: alainbriot
Shutter Pup,


Eventually all art is a reflection of the artist.  In helping others improve their work we often point to what we like ourselves.


This is a very wise statement. It rather goes along with what Mike said in my other thread concerning this photograph when he said that 'I wanted to teach you to be yourself; instead I taught you to be me.'(paraphrased heavily).

Thanks to both you and Mike for your comments to me.
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alainbriot
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« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2010, 08:08:28 AM »
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Quote from: shutterpup
This is a very wise statement. It rather goes along with what Mike said in my other thread concerning this photograph when he said that 'I wanted to teach you to be yourself; instead I taught you to be me.'(paraphrased heavily).

Thanks to both you and Mike for your comments to me.


This is why students decide to study with a specific teacher.  There is a direct relationship between what one does and what one teaches.  This is true of photography as well as of any other art.  It is no different for painting, dance, sculpture, etc.

Regarding being yourself versus following someone else's style, you first have to learn someone's style well before you can create your own style.  You cannot just start to work on your own style "out of the blue".  This is a crucial step that many students miss.  I hear many say "they want to develop a personal style" who do not know how to do a style yet.  You have to first acquire the skills necessary to do someone's style well.  Then you can move further by developing your own style which, most of the time, is an extension of someone else's style.
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Alain Briot
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http://www.beautiful-landscape.com
shutterpup
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« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2010, 08:23:07 AM »
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Quote from: alainbriot
This is why students decide to study with a specific teacher.  There is a direct relationship between what one does and what one teaches.  This is true of photography as well as of any other art.  It is no different for painting, dance, sculpture, etc.

Regarding being yourself versus following someone else's style, you first have to learn someone's style well before you can create your own style.  You cannot just start to work on your own style "out of the blue".  This is a crucial step that many students miss.  I hear many say "they want to develop a personal style" who do not know how to do a style yet.  You have to first acquire the skills necessary to do someone's style well.  Then you can move further by developing your own style which, most of the time, is an extension of someone else's style.

Alain,
Do you have to fully learn someone else's style, or do you simply want to engrain skills into yourself. Or does it boil down to the same end? I really don't want to make mediocre photographs.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2010, 08:25:18 AM »
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Quote from: alainbriot
This is why students decide to study with a specific teacher.  There is a direct relationship between what one does and what one teaches.  This is true of photography as well as of any other art.  It is no different for painting, dance, sculpture, etc.

Regarding being yourself versus following someone else's style, you first have to learn someone's style well before you can create your own style.  You cannot just start to work on your own style "out of the blue".  This is a crucial step that many students miss.  I hear many say "they want to develop a personal style" who do not know how to do a style yet.  You have to first acquire the skills necessary to do someone's style well.  Then you can move further by developing your own style which, most of the time, is an extension of someone else's style.
Agree 100%.
The funny thing is even if one can feel a little cautious to put himself in the end of just one master, when you do a research you end generally attracted by masters who have similar style. So this is not limitating at all.

As life is question of personal vibrations, and these do not harmonised with everything, but kind of "natural groups".
I'd love to make the photographic path now with just one master I admire o respect 100%.

Cheers.
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shutterpup
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« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2010, 08:29:02 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Agree 100%.
The funny thing is even if one can feel a little cautious to put himself in the end of just one master, when you do a research you end generally attracted by masters who have similar style. So this is not limitating at all.

As life is question of personal vibrations, and these do not harmonised with everything, but kind of "natural groups".
I'd love to make the photographic path now with just one master I admire o respect 100%.

Cheers.

Fred,
So you don't feel that it's a lack of skill that leads you in the style of another? And then the truth, as you gravitate toward those photographers whose work you feel attraction to, becomes possibly that of the dreaded word, cliche?
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fredjeang
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« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2010, 08:36:37 AM »
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Quote from: shutterpup
Fred,
So you don't feel that it's a lack of skill that leads you in the style of another? And then the truth, as you gravitate toward those photographers whose work you feel attraction to, becomes possibly that of the dreaded word, cliche?
The risk you point exists. We see that in most of the "religions" for example.
But when you are determined to do something singular, the master is a guide and a sort of "energy-knowledge" exange.
Then, you have to break this relation, you have to liberate yourself and express yourself with your particular feeling, exactly like what happens with our familly. The problem comes when there is not the audacity to break the link.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 08:36:51 AM by fredjeang » Logged
alainbriot
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« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2010, 08:37:27 AM »
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Quote from: shutterpup
Fred,
So you don't feel that it's a lack of skill that leads you in the style of another? And then the truth, as you gravitate toward those photographers whose work you feel attraction to, becomes possibly that of the dreaded word, cliche?

You have to acquire skills, and that is best accomplished by studying with someone who has skills that you relate to, that you are attracted to.  The question to ask is "what is my skills level?"  We start with answering this question with new students.  

Regarding cliches, duplicating the work of a master that came before you is, I am afraid, an inevitable step one has to take.  The Louvre used to be the place where painting students went to copy the work of the masters, as part of their training.  It wasn't called cliche then, it was called study. The fear of doing what has already been done can result in the inability to develop necessary skills...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 08:38:55 AM by alainbriot » Logged

Alain Briot
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fredjeang
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« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2010, 08:45:33 AM »
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Quote from: alainbriot
You have to acquire skills, and that is best accomplished by studying with someone who has skills that you relate to, that you are attracted to.  The question to ask is "what is my skills level?"  We start with answering this question with new students.  

Regarding cliches, duplicating the work of a master that came before you is, I am afraid, an inevitable step one has to take.  The Louvre used to be the place where painting students went to copy the work of the masters, as part of their training.  It wasn't called cliche then, it was called study. The fear of doing what has already been done can result in the inability to develop necessary skills...
Exactly!
This is a point too much misunderstood.
The skills are the passports to the creativity, not so much the opposite.
It is interesting to note that many genious painters, who broke completely the established rules in their carriers, did adquire traditional skills before and most of the time even copied the masters styles. Picasso is a perfect example.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 08:46:16 AM by fredjeang » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2010, 08:56:08 AM »
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By the way Alain, I liked very much but specially the #2 the composing with colors articles.

Well I'll just ad that I'd love to have here in Madrid some Alain Briot or Michael Reichmann to be able to learn more
in a more human way ( and let's say renaissance ) than the inner monologue or a school.
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