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Author Topic: Harman & Hahnemühle  (Read 4230 times)
Sven W
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« on: May 06, 2010, 04:21:51 PM »
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Got some samples on Harman & Hahnemühle's new co-op:

Glossy Baryta neutral and warmtone
Cotton Smooth and Textured
Gloss Art Fibre + warmtone
Canvas

From 8.5 x 11" sheets to 60" rolls

My first impression was the beautiful Glossy Baryta Warmtone, very smooth, but somehow a little to shiny for me, nice warm color, crème.
The Gloss Art Fibre, is more like Silver Rag or Canson Platine, but with more texture.
The Cotton serie is more of a common Photo Rag style.


I did't get enough to test, but my vote (and what I ordered) goes for the Baryta Warmtone.
Anybody else's opinions? Already testprinted?

/S
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 04:23:23 PM by Sven W » Logged

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JeffKohn
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 04:46:57 PM »
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I find this collaboration puzzling.  Did Hahnemuhle buy out Harman's inkjet paper business, or are they just partnering on these limited products? Are these completely new papers, or just re-badges of existing papers?
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Sven W
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 04:41:07 AM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
I find this collaboration puzzling.  Did Hahnemuhle buy out Harman's inkjet paper business, or are they just partnering on these limited products? Are these completely new papers, or just re-badges of existing papers?

Why puzzling? I think that this is not the last collaboration we're going to see.
There are to many similar (or same) products out there. It seems that every manufacturer of officehardware must have their own
brand of "FineArt papers". Instead of development, it's business in first hand.
How many of all the papers you, I, we have tested and used, stand up for our criteria for a excellent paper? Two, three?
And they are the result from the combination and development of printers, software, ink and paper.
What one can wish from the manufacturer of paper to solve, is more of what problems occur for users on this forum;
Uneven quality, flaws, scratches, curling, bad packaging etc. And that demands a interested and experienced company.
So I welcome this sort of merging.....

Back to H&H;
What I know, Hahn makes the paperstock in a mill in France and Alfred Harman is coating. What I can see, it's not the same products
as from the main brands. The Baryta Gloss is not as white as Harmans own and the Warmtone is more pleasant (not pinkish).

/Sven
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 06:47:25 AM »
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Quote from: Sven W
Back to H&H;
What I know, Hahn makes the paperstock in a mill in France and Alfred Harman is coating. What I can see, it's not the same products
as from the main brands. The Baryta Gloss is not as white as Harmans own and the Warmtone is more pleasant (not pinkish).

/Sven


That was my guess some time ago: the Hahnemühle owned Lana factory making the paper base on their Foudriniers or mould cilinder and Harman applying the coating. The last could be cheaper than having it done by Sihl like most HM papers are. Is that information from a more reliable source?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/


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Sven W
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 08:46:23 AM »
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Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
That was my guess some time ago: the Hahnemühle owned Lana factory making the paper base on their Foudriniers or mould cilinder and Harman applying the coating. The last could be cheaper than having it done by Sihl like most HM papers are. Is that information from a more reliable source?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

It's from the Scandinavian distributor.
/Sven
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 11:40:42 AM »
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Why puzzling?
Puzzling because it creates brand confusion, and the description for these papers in the marketing materials gave no clear indication of how these were different from the existing papers. Hahnemuhle already has a full line of bright-white and natural-white papers with Baryta and fiber-gloss papers.  Your explanation that these new products are Hahnemuhle papers with Harman coatings makes sense, but that wasn't clear from the marketing blurb on Hahnemuhle's website.

Don't get me wrong, the variety of papers available to us for inkjet printing is great, but it can also be overwhelming. The problem is that all of the marketing descriptions sound exactly the same: bright-white (or natural white) paper with excellent DMax/gamut and that classic air-dried fiber-gloss look. There are differences among the papers once you actually try them, but who has the time (and money to burn) trying all of them. Then there's the fact that all of these papers claim to be archival, but most of the paper companies are too lazy/cheap/arrogant to publish real permanence ratings so you have no idea that Paper A will fade twice as quickly as Paper B.
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Sven W
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 03:47:55 PM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
Puzzling because it creates brand confusion, and the description for these papers in the marketing materials gave no clear indication of how these were different from the existing papers. Hahnemuhle already has a full line of bright-white and natural-white papers with Baryta and fiber-gloss papers.  Your explanation that these new products are Hahnemuhle papers with Harman coatings makes sense, but that wasn't clear from the marketing blurb on Hahnemuhle's website.

Don't get me wrong, the variety of papers available to us for inkjet printing is great, but it can also be overwhelming. The problem is that all of the marketing descriptions sound exactly the same: bright-white (or natural white) paper with excellent DMax/gamut and that classic air-dried fiber-gloss look. There are differences among the papers once you actually try them, but who has the time (and money to burn) trying all of them. Then there's the fact that all of these papers claim to be archival, but most of the paper companies are too lazy/cheap/arrogant to publish real permanence ratings so you have no idea that Paper A will fade twice as quickly as Paper B.

Agree.
It's time to clean up !!
So I find it hopeful with this kind of melting, but at the same time, beg for that it's coming something useful out for us users.
And, as you mention, not only another "bright-white (or natural white) paper with excellent DMax/gamut and that classic air-dried fiber-gloss look."
/Sven
PS Take a membership at Aardenburg, and support them for their work on permanence.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 04:53:03 PM »
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Quote from: Sven W
PS Take a membership at Aardenburg, and support them for their work on permanence.
I second that, having recently joined. I'll be sending in some print samples for the new Lucia EX inkset shortly. But I still think the paper manufacturers should be more proactive on this. Hats off to Canson-Infinity for having their full range of papers tested on all three major pigment inksets. I might have preferred if they had used the Aardenburg testing since his results are more useful IMHO, but at least they have some useful test data published.  Hahnemuhle, on the other hand, has only had a handful of papers tested, and only with Epson inks. If Harman has done any testing, I couldn't find the results on their website.
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Sven W
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 05:30:10 PM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
I second that, having recently joined. I'll be sending in some print samples for the new Lucia EX inkset shortly. But I still think the paper manufacturers should be more proactive on this. Hats off to Canson-Infinity for having their full range of papers tested on all three major pigment inksets. I might have preferred if they had used the Aardenburg testing since his results are more useful IMHO, but at least they have some useful test data published.  Hahnemuhle, on the other hand, has only had a handful of papers tested, and only with Epson inks. If Harman has done any testing, I couldn't find the results on their website.

They have, but not at Aardenburg, at Wilhelm Research
All three inksets.

/Sven
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 05:31:32 PM by Sven W » Logged

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JeffKohn
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 07:13:03 PM »
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Quote from: Sven W
They have, but not at Aardenburg, at Wilhelm Research
All three inksets.
OK, good to know. I looked on the Harman website and didn't see anything.
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