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Author Topic: New Pro Business Discussion sub-forum  (Read 4742 times)
Chris Sanderson
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« on: May 15, 2010, 10:21:21 AM »
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So, I have created this sub-forum.
Let's see how this works. If non-pro topics are posted they will be moved to the Coffee Corner or deleted.
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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2010, 10:55:44 AM »
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Thank you Chris.

I think my last thread was really difficult to place and logically belong to such a section.

This was IMO an important aspect of the photography that was lacking a special forum.
This now exists and I hope it will work well.

Good you gave it a try.

Cheers.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2010, 05:43:06 AM »
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Maybe this section should be members only

Then we could really let rip!

S


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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Rob C
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2010, 09:39:31 AM »
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Now that is a damn good idea.

Rob C
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2010, 09:50:02 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Now that is a damn good idea.

Rob C

obviously it woulnd actually be 'secure' but just less public

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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michael
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 04:03:48 PM »
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No. We won't be going down that road. The forums here are about the sharing on information, not building private gardens.

Also, who decides who's a pro and who isn't?

Michael
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 08:44:44 PM by michael » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 07:04:23 PM »
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Quote from: michael
No. We won't be going down that road. The forums here are abouT the sharing on information, not building private gardens.

Also, who decides who's a pro and who isn't?

Michael

Michael

Any member of the forum should be able to read - that was my vision/hope

just not unregistered members of the WWW including potentially the clients/client groups we may mention

obviously a particularly interested client could register

its just a first blanket that may open discussions a little more - and open discussion is good for all forum members

S

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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Terence h
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2010, 02:44:50 PM »
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Quote from: Morgan_Moore
Michael

Any member of the forum should be able to read - that was my vision/hope

just not unregistered members of the WWW including potentially the clients/client groups we may mention

obviously a particularly interested client could register

its just a first blanket that may open discussions a little more - and open discussion is good for all forum members

S

Fully agree if you post under your own name  any client or potential client can just Google your name and start reading your
opinions about  this industry and if you are truthful this is not always a good idea.
In fact one can tell by the way some individuals reply in some posts that they are aware of this situation and whilst giving
their opinion are very careful to bolster their own standing as photographers , nobody can honestly be so gushy about this
industry at present and be totally truthful.

Regards
Terence
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Terence Hogben. Durban. South Africa. http://www.terencehogben.co.za
mtomalty
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 03:14:18 PM »
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Quote
Also, who decides who's a pro and who isn't?



Clearly, the gear decides !
Phase back owners are pros.    Everyone else, not so much  :>))



Phase free and lovin' it,
Mark

www.marktomalty.com
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fredjeang
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 03:24:56 PM »
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Quote from: mtomalty
Clearly, the gear decides !
Phase back owners are pros.    Everyone else, not so much  :>))



Phase free and lovin' it,
Mark

www.marktomalty.com
...and everything below the P65 is not allowed to post more than 3 lines/post here?

ahh, what gear can do to man.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 03:42:46 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 04:10:54 PM »
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Quote from: Terence h
Fully agree if you post under your own name  any client or potential client can just Google your name and start reading your
opinions about  this industry and if you are truthful this is not always a good idea.
In fact one can tell by the way some individuals reply in some posts that they are aware of this situation and whilst giving
their opinion are very careful to bolster their own standing as photographers , nobody can honestly be so gushy about this
industry at present and be totally truthful.
FYI

All users of this Forum are encouraged to use their real names as their display name.

In the near future, that will be a requirement for membership of the Luminous Landscape Forum.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 04:17:10 PM »
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When I suggested there could be room for an additional forum it certainly wasn't a plea for some kind of exclusive Pro club; the mere thought fills me with horror. My comment that it could be "a coffee corner for working togs and or serial curmudgeons" and that you could even call it "The Luminous Landscape Professional Photography Forum" was said with tongue firmly in cheek.

My point was that it seemed strange to lump threads on the business of photography into an "Equipment and Techniques" forum. That's still my point and as far as I'm concerned this sub-forum doesn't solve anything.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 04:18:18 PM by KLaban » Logged

bcooter
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 04:27:22 PM »
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Quote from: michael
No. We won't be going down that road. The forums here are about the sharing on information, not building private gardens.

Also, who decides who's a pro and who isn't?

Michael

Michael, thank you.

Actually the regulatory group that decides if your a professional photographer or not is the IRS, at least in the U.S.

As far as another poster mentioning being gushy about the "pro . . .fessional" photography biz, well, nobody's gushy, actually I don't know anyone that hasn't done some soul searching, but the only answer I know is to keep going forward, try harder, invest wisely work your backside off but continue to invest in your business.

Either that or teach.

(not that there is anything wrong with teaching).

In regards to improving one's standing through LL, well it's a nice forum, Michael has a great hands off policy and it's open to anyone.  Those are things I like, but this isn't the place to market yourself as a photographer that shoots for editorial and/or commerce.

It's good place, just not a sales vehicle.  

At least for photographers.

BC
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 04:29:18 PM by bcooter » Logged
Terence h
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2010, 11:50:22 PM »
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OK gushy was a bit strong , but we must be aware that our opinions are out there for all to read ,
and it is obvious that some posters are responding with this in mind , and others are just going
out on a limb and being totally honest and open.

Regards
Terence
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Terence Hogben. Durban. South Africa. http://www.terencehogben.co.za
fredjeang
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2010, 02:55:51 AM »
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In the form of how is organised Lu-La, I think this is a natural place for this kind of debate.
Now it is clearly separate from the MF tech orientated.

There is no perfect way to do things, good way is enough. In the MF, there is a section about "displaying your professional works" or something like that,
I guess not all the pics come from MF cameras, so why should this section be there? It is just fine. At the end, a forum or any place has its own natural way of functioning regardless to the labels. It results that the MF forum is where most of the pros are watching and posting.

I'm also 100% in favor of using our real names. When I say that, I'm including also the real name that one uses commercially because sometimes some people use pseudos in their real life. I'm convinced that it will increase the quality of the content in all aspects.

Some are pointing that if private, we could be more relaxed and tempted to go deeper in delicate aspects of the profession, I think on the contrary that when you make things public under your name it is another story.

For example, I've seen here some Michael's articles very very politically uncorrect. Some, frankly, where very delicate and could have had a lot of implications. I'm thinking of the old Kodak 35mm FF as a good example. Responsability is the word that comes in my mind. If I write under a funny name, I can say any funny thing, but when it is under your name, you are responsable for your writings and I thing that is a great thing.

I just realised how powerfull is that recently. I wrote a thread here some time ago where I was condamning a brand, thinking that 3 people would see it. later, a day I did a search in google about that brand and my thread appeared in the first places. That really impressed me, and I thought that it is not just about writing, it is about writing right.
What we put here have consequences, and that is a 2 side sword.

When I realised that, I erased a funny picture of a "Leica Clouseau inspector" that I did for the fun one day. But, was that post necessary? No. How could it affect a brand image? I would never have thought that we have this power, but we do. My pic was just for fun, but it could be interpretated differently and then, the images are circulating, the words are writen. It is not just about being in between us and make our cofee conversation. It is all about posting the best we can
and being aware that we are responsable of the content. It will be seen by a lot of people. We do that in our website with our images, but our writings here have exactly the same weight.

As BC says, we all have good reasons to bark against the situation. I've been doing it, I've been listenning too much so far about the same stories, arrownd me, every day got some bad news from people I know about how bad etc...if this was a private forum, that is where we would go.
But that does not lead us at the end to nowhere if not worse and the answer of Bcooter is also the only that I know, that I beleive and that'm applying right now.

Transparency (public forum) will force us to think twice before posting, but think twice is better than not thinking at all IMHO.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 03:09:00 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2010, 08:22:12 AM »
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Well, I'm not that sure about divulging real names.

The problem is the old one of possible profiles being made on anybody that chooses a web presence. There are things that I am happy to declare under a reasonably ambiguous name - some may know and guess (should they even care) but others not. I do not mean that one should have licence to libel - far from it - but a certain amount of privacy within the public domain is no bad thing. As it is, on the rare event that I post a shot, it usually carries a copyright notice with my name, something that I would rather not do but feel I have little choice of avoiding because of fraud/theft issues.

I don't think any photographer would seriously choose to use LuLa as a marketing tool: who on Earth that's likely to be a client would be tuned in? Of course, I don't know: it's just an opinion, but perhaps it's very easy to imagine that because we spend heaps of time and effort here that the rest of the world does too, or even knows we exist.

It could be that the real problems that shooters face are all too personal for any kind of shared discussion anyway; techniques are all chatted about freely, but business, as in its commercial sense, has to be something else and played close to the chest. Look, when I worked in Scotland, there was a handful of us that 'counted' in that sense; we did say Hi!, knew one another, did hold hands, but only to prevent the other guy from picking our pocket. Mabe it's all a vain effort at best, but there has to be much common ground that could be shared without the need for public participation.

IRS verification is a natural key, but what, then, of old guys like myself now retired and out of IRS vision or interest? I'm sure we do still have a thing or two that's valid to contribute to a forum even if not in the sense of contemporary hardware experience.

But this is not our personal property - it runs by whichever set of rules the owners rightfully apply.

Rob C
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2010, 08:57:36 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Well, I'm not that sure about divulging real names.

The problem is the old one of possible profiles being made on anybody that chooses a web presence. There are things that I am happy to declare under a reasonably ambiguous name - some may know and guess (should they even care) but others not. I do not mean that one should have licence to libel - far from it - but a certain amount of privacy within the public domain is no bad thing. As it is, on the rare event that I post a shot, it usually carries a copyright notice with my name, something that I would rather not do but feel I have little choice of avoiding because of fraud/theft issues.
...
Rob C
Just a word about 'Real Names Only'

Fred's point about making people think before they post is accurate and perhaps for that reason alone is a good idea.
However I need to say that the prime reason follows from that. We wish to allow reasonable freedom of expression on what is a publicly accessible forum, yet one which is privately administered.
Neither Michael nor I  wish to spend any more time administering this forum than we currently do and that time is already considerable.

A reasonable request that appears to cut down on unreasonable & intemperate postings certainly cuts down on the time used in administering this place.

'Real Names' stands as a request and will become a requirement very soon.

Chris
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2010, 09:27:45 AM »
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I'm all for divulging real names.

I conduct virtually my entire web presence using my real name and prefer communicating with those who do likewise. Virtually all photographers with a website - amateur or professional - have to be up-front with real names, company names and trading names, and it's a simple matter identifying most of those who are not and accessing their registered details.

I'm well aware that anything I say here or elsewhere is attributable to me and prefer this to be the case, if I don't want anything attributable to me I try not to say it.

When looking for opinion or advice I always place particular value on contributions coming those whose work I admire, rather than from those who hide behind the cloak of anonymity.

Bring it on.
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