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bcooter
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2010, 05:10:15 PM »
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Doug,

Good job for trying on this.

Don't get me wrong for some people this will work.   Especially if your on a crane and the A.D. is on the ground on the in the RV and wants to view the shot.

 For me, this system is  kind of backwards.

Now if a Phase back didn't require a tethered computer to get a  preview and a phase back had a photographer friendly lcd amd the Ipad tethered or non tethered went straight to the camera, not the computer, then you have me.  Where do I sign.

But if you gonna run a tech station, have a dozen people hanging out there, then introduce another device for viewing the same thing on the computer you lost me.  

As far as photographers that shoot people needing to view the scene and lighting with intricacy, it's as heavy a load as anyone that shoots stuff that doesn't move, cause if I blow a window highlight, its a lot of work to blend that back to hair or fine garments, especially with the subject moving.

For you inanimate objects guys I know it's a tough biz, but fixing a highlight on a table usually isn't as expensive or consuming as blending hair and skin, plus your chairs don't charge you $1,000 an hour while you futz with lighting.

BC

Quote from: dougpetersonci
I'm not looking at this thread anymore until I'm able to post my article. Half-way explanations don't help anyone.

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gwhitf
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2010, 05:15:14 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
It can be viewed in a room down the hall, across the room, or right next to the photographer and can stay with the person who is using it. The interface can be display only (so the person can't make any adjustments), rate/browse only (so the person can rate the images and browse between images), or full C1 functionality including histogram, adjustments, rating, capture naming etc.

For your style of shooting the iPad would be set up Display Only and you could turn the display of the MacBookPro off or put a hood on it to discourage more than one viewer at a time.  In this configuration it would simply be a larger, higher resolution of the back of the camera LCD except for a few second delay between shutter release and showing on the iPad, and the image will include any styling you've done in C1 (contrast, curves, vignette, color adjustments, highlight/shadow, tinting, lens correction, crop, overlay, clarity etc etc).

It can also be used as a easy editing tool. This is the mode the system is in when you view the youtube video. Big, easy-to-use buttons to move to the next image and rate it (green, yellow, red) with or without the ability to make adjustments to the images.

Doug,

But the laptop or tower is already sitting there, and much more capable of doing all those things listed above. And if you don't mess with the Ipad, it's just one less thing to pay for, insure, and risk dropping.

What am I missing here? Until you eliminate the computer part of the equation, what have you really gained, other than some newfangled supposedly slick sexy device that the client might be impressed with, (for five minutes).

Not being contrary, but just being honest. I promise.

You lose the computer, and photographers will run through the streets in glee, breaking down your door to buy your product.
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feppe
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Oh this shows up in here!


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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2010, 05:20:52 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Doug,

But the laptop or tower is already sitting there, and much more capable of doing all those things listed above. And if you don't mess with the Ipad, it's just one less thing to pay for, insure, and risk dropping.

What am I missing here? Until you eliminate the computer part of the equation, what have you really gained, other than some newfangled supposedly slick sexy device that the client might be impressed with, (for five minutes).

Not being contrary, but just being honest. I promise.

You lose the computer, and photographers will run through the streets in glee, breaking down your door to buy your product.

Stop the presses, gwhitf is immune to Steve Jobs' reality distortion field!
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fredjeang
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2010, 05:50:17 PM »
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IMHO.

Apple is going to be the tomorrow's Microsoft.
And Microsoft will be obliged to be the tomorrow's Apple.

Many signs are saying it.

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gwhitf
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2010, 05:51:38 PM »
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My respect for Doug and Capture Integration is high. But this never-ending Trail Of Gadgets is surging out of control. Ipads and Laptops; three and four people craning their necks to see the tethered laptop in order to yell out an uninvited opinion; strobeheads controlled from laptops; where will it end.

My advice: Get up off your ass and walk over and turn up the power on that Profoto pack, BY HAND. Be a man.

It's to the point where you'll soon have to start having a line item on your Estimates for both a Digital Tech, and an I.T. Guy.

This is not what photography is about.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 05:52:47 PM by gwhitf » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2010, 06:22:06 PM »
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I think that this topic, started with an aparently harmless news is indeed pointing some crucial and deep arguments.

This is all the task in itself that is questioned: Where is the limit.

I join completly the gwhitf and bcooter's voices. When all this will end? Wich more gadget involved, wich more complication in order to automatized more, but when the basic, I mean the really basic needs are not covered, and again peripherical solutions that will add more complications than will help.

In some cases? Fine. Why not, But...

The craftman driven by gear, more exactly, "obliged" to do it that way because there is no other good reason than the manufacturer.
It's the world backward, but we know I guess that this world is going backward and accelerating.

All that affects the act of photography in itself.

When I read a Michael Reichmann's article about the "whao" of the I.pad in the task itself, I just remembered that Karl Lagarfeld, when at the head of Chanel, went crazy with a photographer that could not understand according to him the philosophy of the last collection and ended taking the Pentax and doing the edito himself. Nice ambience...
That was in film age, I was in Paris, young...but when I saw the Ipad, I thought that this would have been THE Lagarfeld gadget.

All that mess and distractions are not desirable.

I'm not totally enthousiastic by the new Pentax, but I have to say that it could play another song. If others keep going adding more and more stuff and complications, even if they come with a nice intention, there will be proportionally more and more photographers that will buy the Pentax, for its
simplicity and low cost (that does not mean low IQ).

As it has been mentionned, looking more and being more involved into the action, as it should be.


Less is more.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 06:54:26 PM by fredjeang » Logged
eronald
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« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2010, 07:18:00 PM »
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Most useful piece of studio gear I own is a wired Elinchrom remote. Twiddle, shoot, twiddle, shoot.


Quote from: gwhitf
My advice: Get up off your ass and walk over and turn up the power on that Profoto pack, BY HAND. Be a man.


This is not what photography is about.

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gwhitf
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« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2010, 07:30:29 PM »
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I am close to bringing to market my own invention. The YouTube of it will be ready soon. It'll be software that'll let you connect an iPhone to an iPad, (which was first connected to the laptop). The trademark is not yet official, but I think I'm gonna call it "RussianNested", based on this concept:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_ma...m_doll_open.jpg

The goal is to see how many useless devices that you can string together before all of them stop working.

In my scenario, the Creative Director looks at the laptop, and then the Art Director looks at the iPad, and then the Account Executive back in the Home Office in Des Moines will be looking at his image on his iPhone, and then screaming his directions through the iphone that's connected to the iPad. While all those guy are arguing with each other, I'm going to go ahead and do the shot, so that we get the first Setup done before Sundown of the first day.

Version Two of my product: In the chain, the iPhone will be then connected to a GameBoy, down the line, so that the Makeup Artist's kid can have something to do, while the Makeup Artist watches the show on the computer, instead of looking at the Talent in real time.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2010, 07:41:42 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
I am close to bringing to market my own invention. The YouTube of it will be ready soon. It'll be software that'll let you connect an iPhone to an iPad, (which was first connected to the laptop). The trademark is not yet official, but I think I'm gonna call it "RussianNested", based on this concept:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_ma...m_doll_open.jpg

The goal is to see how many useless devices that you can string together before all of them stop working.

In my scenario, the Creative Director looks at the laptop, and then the Art Director looks at the iPad, and then the Account Executive back in the Home Office in Des Moines will be looking at his image on his iPhone, and then screaming his directions through the iphone that's connected to the iPad. While all those guy are arguing with each other, I'm going to go ahead and do the shot, so that we get the first Setup done before Sundown of the first day.

Version Two of my product: In the chain, the iPhone will be then connected to a GameBoy, down the line, so that the Makeup Artist's kid can have something to do, while the Makeup Artist watches the show on the computer, instead of looking at the Talent in real time.
   I almost drop my night tea on the monitor!
Thanks for this good laugh.
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JeffVo
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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2010, 12:44:15 PM »
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I rarely chime in, but I just have to jump in on this one.  First, (and some of you aren't going to like this) what kind of unprofessional sets are you on that everyone seems to chime in?  The way you guys describe it the caterer and make-up assistant must be peeking at the screen and telling you a lower angle might be better. ;-).  You might be the same guys that hate to teether at all because now people can see your images (mistakes).  Are people still so insecure and whining about this? Really? It is true that on set from time to time there is an errant hair/MUP/Style/Prop/Assis/etc that is out of line and chimes in, but professionals know better ,and its rare from my experience.    If any photographer cant see the merit of such tools then by all means don't buy them or as some of you say "drop them".  It just sounds so short sighted and dinosaur like to be complaining about tools that may make your life better.  Just put another roll of EPP or other outdated film in your (insert old MF camera here) and relax.  What the Ipad can do or will do is nothing new.  You could do it on your iphone via VNC 3 years ago.  Heck you can use a laptop to do the same thing.  The art director can sit in the motorhome and see the same image the same size on a calibrated monitor.  The leaf solution (as Doug said) was/is pretty sweet and far ahead of its time.  There are so many cool things about it.  For one, many of the Ipaqs (viewing PDA's) had transflective screens. Transflective you ask?  You could view it sunlight.  Try that with a laptop or ipad or what not.  It was like so many things in that it was not always the easiest to setup or use.  Anyone who uses VNC or Screen-share knows its not always bulletproof depending on your network and other factors.  I have no doubt it will be even closer to foolproof than it is today.  I'm with those that suggest that skipping the computer and going to the ipad (ie leaf) would be amazing.  Let us hope Phase uses their Leaf resources and does just that.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2010, 01:22:40 PM »
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Jeff,

I think that I can understand the reasons of your "hot" post, but I would like to express that in my opinion, and understanding your points perfectly,
that this is not the I.pad potential that is discussed, but the I.pad + the laptop or whatever tower configuration that it has been condamned and for some reasons.

We all agree that the I.pad is indeed a nice machine, BUT it depends if this is going to be a substitute, and in that case we can talk about an improovment (not for today),
OR...and that's the point, if it is going to be another more gadget on the chain. And in that case, I do not see where is the professionalism you are talking about if
you are going to complicate even more the chain.

I will end my answer saying that some of the members that you are targeting are among the very best professionals and respected as professionals.

I can not agree with them, and when it happens I express it, but I never put in doubt the professionalism of anybody without knowing in person.
Disagreement is one thing, free depreciation because it does not match ones p.o.v is another one, IMHO.

Regards.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 07:35:55 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2010, 01:23:23 PM »
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Quote from: JeffVo
Anyone who uses VNC or Screen-share knows its not always bulletproof depending on your network and other factors.

I've never seen ANY wireless device which was bulletproof.

However if you follow our suggestions it's solid in my testing so far. I'll detail in the future but if you create a password protected ad-hoc network and turn off all non-essential network protocols and encoders (lots of words, but about 4 seconds of work on a mac) then 99% of your problems with VNC go away and the speed/responsiveness goes way up.

If the above is making you go "I don't want to deal with all that" then no biggie. Keep doing what you're doing.

Some photographers here consider tethering a godsend, some consider it a huge hassle, still others have never tried it. There's nothing wrong with any of those views. They just represent different shooting styles in different situations.

Completely reliable, fast, easy, and computer-free wireless previews will be the god-send that gwitf and bcooter (and others including myself and a huge % of photogrpahers) desire. Developing such a system would be a holy grail for any high end camera company. But such a system is at least a year away in my opinion. So if you're only going to be happy with wireless previews then you should probably ignore any threads about the semi-wireless solutions (tethered to a computer, wireless to a viewing device) that appear between now and then. They'll just remind you that what you want doesn't yet exist.

Doug Peterson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2010, 01:49:35 PM »
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Doug,

I think that what you are doing here and in Capture Integration is fantastic and I will never forget how many times your helps and knowledge have been and are indeed usefull.

I understand the excitment about the goal you are wiling to acheive with the I.pad.

I had a good laugh with the gwhitf russian joke and that was not at all against you but it describes so well what could be first a nice proposal transformed into something that could end in a nice hassle.
Completely reliable, fast, easy, and computer-free wireless previews, yes I would buy the idea but what about the laptop(sssssss) then?

Then we are exactly in the russian dolls configuration. And that is where my reserves are.

Let's wait and see. It is fair to say that this is worth seeing all the possible oportunities.
Maybe I do not realise at that point all the potential of the proposal.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 07:41:44 PM by fredjeang » Logged
CBarrett
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« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2010, 02:36:15 PM »
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Oh my God. You guys are like a bunch of frightened villagers huddling around  the Space Alien with your pitchforks!

Here is a great new bit of technology. If it can improve your process do it. If not... Fuhgidaboudit.

Move on and go make pictures.

CB
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2010, 03:30:18 PM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
IMHO.

Apple is going to be the tomorrow's Microsoft.
And Microsoft will be obliged to be the tomorrow's Apple.

Many signs are saying it.
Actually I think google is rapidly becoming the next Microsoft.

Additionally it also appears some postings here in this thread are displaying "internetitis", a condition where one can't accept the fact that there are multiple ways of doing things and just because someone likes to do it differently doesn't make you right and them wrong.  Debating  the usefulness of the iPad in a workflow at this stage of development is baffling to me. Seems like such a waste of time when no one really knows where the device or similar devices will evolve to.  And to assume that just because you see no point in handing a device like this to an AD means no one should seems is a littte arrogant.

I do know some will find the device useful, as they look for innovative ways to use it.  A friend has already found using the iPad as a presentation device while consulting with potential wedding customers has been very successful.  That's simple to do.  The device is extremely capable for it's size, who knows what is coming.  Obviously shooting directly to the device wirelessly would be amazingly useful, but lacking that (for now) doesn't mean there aren't a myriad of ways to apply the device as a useful tool.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 03:47:40 PM by Wayne Fox » Logged

fredjeang
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« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2010, 03:32:39 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
Actually I think google is rapidly becoming the next Microsoft.
On that I also think you are 100% right.
Will have Googapples.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 03:33:10 PM by fredjeang » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2010, 04:08:03 PM »
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Quote from: CBarrett
Oh my God. You guys are like a bunch of frightened villagers huddling around  the Space Alien with your pitchforks!

Here is a great new bit of technology. If it can improve your process do it. If not... Fuhgidaboudit.

Move on and go make pictures.

CB


Now, each time Aplle is lauching a new gadget, it is like the 21st century Allah's gift.
Whaos, Ahhhs, Ohhhhs...
New-age siren's sounds attractive indeed.
Is it really to make pictures or to make us buy even more useless stuff?
I do not have the answer honestly, maybe this will be excelent, maybe not and
each person will choose the best for him/her.

The only thing I know for sure, and as I get older; is exactly your claim: "less is more".
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 08:10:56 PM by fredjeang » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2010, 08:08:27 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
Actually I think google is rapidly becoming the next Microsoft.

Additionally it also appears some postings here in this thread are displaying "internetitis", a condition where one can't accept the fact that there are multiple ways of doing things and just because someone likes to do it differently doesn't make you right and them wrong.  Debating  the usefulness of the iPad in a workflow at this stage of development is baffling to me. Seems like such a waste of time when no one really knows where the device or similar devices will evolve to.  And to assume that just because you see no point in handing a device like this to an AD means no one should seems is a littte arrogant.

I do know some will find the device useful, as they look for innovative ways to use it.  A friend has already found using the iPad as a presentation device while consulting with potential wedding customers has been very successful.  That's simple to do.  The device is extremely capable for it's size, who knows what is coming.  Obviously shooting directly to the device wirelessly would be amazingly useful, but lacking that (for now) doesn't mean there aren't a myriad of ways to apply the device as a useful tool.
Wayne,

I think that it has been misunderstood. I do not see frankly any arrogance. Some members, me included, where not convinced by a proposal and we simply express it, and why.
But in any case I read that this should be the rule for everyone.

The reasons that where expressed are showing indeed some issues concerning this configuration and legitimaly some questions emerged.
But that does not mean that it is bad, that Ipad is not interesting and that some people can not find it amazingly useful. It simply means, in that configuration not everybody is convinced, and not
because we are tech frightened.

See, life is funy. Today precicely, I went to the studio of an international fashion photographer because I have some work with him. There are enough Macs in his studio to open an entire shop.
I think I saw every possible existing versions. 6 computers are running permanently 15 hours/day, while the retoucher is using 2 tower units. Well, this conversation emerged about a question I asked him
about tethered stuff and guess what, he told me exactly the same than bcooter and gwhift where first pionting in this thread.

Now, I have no doubt that the I.pad can and will be a great tool for many applications.

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K.C.
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« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2010, 03:18:44 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Now, each time Aplle is lauching a new gadget, it is like the 21st century Allah's gift.
Whaos, Ahhhs, Ohhhhs...
New-age siren's sounds attractive indeed.
Is it really to make pictures or to make us buy even more useless stuff?
I do not have the answer honestly, maybe this will be excelent, maybe not and
each person will choose the best for him/her.

The only thing I know for sure, and as I get older; is exactly your claim: "less is more".

But us old guys aren't the market. Apple is masterful at marketing to the tech toy obsessed and they deliver a cool factor that Microsoft has never understood.

Less is more. But more is more profitable.

IMHO, iPad 2 will be a useful tool for photographers. But again Apple is brilliant in releasing a handicaped iPad now because developers worldwide will be doing all the work of figuring out new uses (markets) for it.

So keep it up Doug and all the rest of you. I'll sit back and wait till you've got it sorted. I'll buy the new iPad 2 when it has twice the memory, a faster processor, higher res screen with matt finish available and the necessary ports. In the mean time my 13" MPB works great by VNC.



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MattLaver
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« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2010, 08:08:12 AM »
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Quote from: yaya
Just a little teaser...at your nearest (app)store soon...

[attachment=22230:Screen_s...16.21.28.jpeg]


This has probably already been mentioned... but if that Leaf App was able to act as a viewing app for leaf mos files using the bluetooth connection directly to the DB rather than through a tethered laptop network that would be huge for me. Strap or mount the iPad to the tripod and off you go. Great for location architecture shooting where tethering is a pain but a big view would be very useful.

Matt
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