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Author Topic: C1 problem  (Read 4573 times)
scott morrish
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« on: June 29, 2010, 02:54:21 PM »
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Hi.

Thanks in part to Walter and Michael's C1 tutorial, i thought i'd take a deeper look at C1, but have immediately started getting the 'events' window pop up complaining 'Thumbnail Generation failed' for every image in my library. Consequently, nothing in C1 works.

The details in the events panel show the following message:
Description:    Cannot generate thumbnail from proxy file: too few color profiles
File:          /Volumes/Library/1 Pic_Raw/2010/20100106_Snow/CaptureOne/Cache/Proxies/Ph65_3727.IIQ.cop
Domain:       com.phaseone.captureone
Code:       23

Does anyone know what could cause this... or better still how to fix it?
Phase have not responded in over a week... so i am hoping someone has a simple fix.

Until recently, as LR had not handled P65 files, i simply used C1 to export DNGs of files i wanted to work on.
I am very definitely a novice with C1... so i accept i might have done something silly... although clearly... i am not sure what!

Regards,
Scott
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gss
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 05:25:44 PM »
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I had this exact problem, but cannot remember what I did to fix it.  If you go to the quick menu and look at the ICC profile, what is it set to?  If you go to, on the menu bar, View -> Proof Profile, what is it set to?  Have you tried generating a new monitor profile?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 05:26:56 PM by gss » Logged
tho_mas
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 06:20:30 PM »
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Quote from: scott morrish
'Thumbnail Generation failed' for every image in my library. Consequently, nothing in C1 works.
this is most likely a problem with the naming of your monitor profile (or a certain tag in the monitor profile). Nothing serious ... still annoying.
If you like, upload your monitor profile here and I am going to edit it so that it works.
Files with the suffix *.icc or *.icm can not be attached here on the forum so please edit the suffix to *.txt first.
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scott morrish
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2010, 08:13:07 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
this is most likely a problem with the naming of your monitor profile (or a certain tag in the monitor profile). Nothing serious ... still annoying.
If you like, upload your monitor profile here and I am going to edit it so that it works.
Files with the suffix *.icc or *.icm can not be attached here on the forum so please edit the suffix to *.txt first.

Thank you... very kind offer.
Before sending it over... i was just thinking around the matter in light of the two responses.
I have not changed the monitor profile in between C1 working, and C1not working.
I have just looked at the profile (Output / Process recipe / ICC Profile) and i have it set to 'embed camera profile' - however if i change that to any other ICC profile, everything seems to work okay again!
Accordingly i am guessing that means it is not the monitor profile?

As i understand matters, the logical profile to use in C1 is the camera profile... but how can it become a problem?
Is C1 looking at the profile embedded in the Raw files, or is it using a copy from elsewhere on the computer?

I appreciate both of your ideas,
Thanks,
Scott
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tho_mas
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 09:40:39 AM »
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Quote from: scott morrish
I have not changed the monitor profile in between C1 working, and C1not working.
but maybe you've updated OS X?

Quote
I have just looked at the profile (Output / Process recipe / ICC Profile) and i have it set to 'embed camera profile' - however if i change that to any other ICC profile, everything seems to work okay again!
Accordingly i am guessing that means it is not the monitor profile?
now to me this sounds that it is with 99% chance the monitor profile! strange as it sounds...
The input profiles (camera profiles) only contain 1 table (1 output table). So you can not convert into a camera profile (you can try that in Photoshop as well) - you only can assign a camera profile to a file.
The camera profile is assigned to the raw file (in the tool "base characteristics") and if you set the output to "embed camera profile" this command only tell's the software not convert into any other color space, but just to assign the camera profile to the file.
However, of course, C1 by default also translates to the monitor profile at the same time...

Now if you switch the output to another profile I assume C1 is translating directly to that profile (but not to the monitor profile as there is a bug in your case).
So it only seems to work... but most likely you won't see the right colors.

Of course I'm not 100% sure... just an educated guess...


edit: you can also test if it's the monitor profile when you simply set AdobeRGB (or sRGB) as monitor profile in Color Sync. Just for testing of course...

So:
- close C1
- change monitor profile in Color Sync
- start C1, set output to "embed camera profile"

if that works it's the monitor profile...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 09:57:23 AM by tho_mas » Logged
scott morrish
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 02:21:12 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
but maybe you've updated OS X?

now to me this sounds that it is with 99% chance the monitor profile! strange as it sounds...
The input profiles (camera profiles) only contain 1 table (1 output table). So you can not convert into a camera profile (you can try that in Photoshop as well) - you only can assign a camera profile to a file.
The camera profile is assigned to the raw file (in the tool "base characteristics") and if you set the output to "embed camera profile" this command only tell's the software not convert into any other color space, but just to assign the camera profile to the file.
However, of course, C1 by default also translates to the monitor profile at the same time...

Now if you switch the output to another profile I assume C1 is translating directly to that profile (but not to the monitor profile as there is a bug in your case).
So it only seems to work... but most likely you won't see the right colors.

Of course I'm not 100% sure... just an educated guess...


edit: you can also test if it's the monitor profile when you simply set AdobeRGB (or sRGB) as monitor profile in Color Sync. Just for testing of course...

So:
- close C1
- change monitor profile in Color Sync
- start C1, set output to "embed camera profile"

if that works it's the monitor profile...

Thanks for that, again, i'd not thought how to isolate the monitor profile. However, here is what happened:
Changing the monitor profile via ColourSync, does not change anything.
Changing the 'Output / Process recipe / ICC Profile' to anything besides 'embed camera profile' works (functionally, although probably not in terms of colour accuracy)... but as soon as i revert to 'embed camera profile'... it starts generating errors again.

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tho_mas
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 02:46:50 PM »
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Quote from: scott morrish
Thanks for that, again, i'd not thought how to isolate the monitor profile.
Color Sync shows you the location of the profile:
[attachment=22881:monitor.png]

Quote
However, here is what happened:
Changing the monitor profile via ColourSync, does not change anything.
Changing the 'Output / Process recipe / ICC Profile' to anything besides 'embed camera profile' works (functionally, although probably not in terms of colour accuracy)... but as soon as i revert to 'embed camera profile'... it starts generating errors again.
are you using the default camera profile (provided by Phase One resp. Capture One) or a custom made profile?

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scott morrish
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 03:43:25 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
Color Sync shows you the location of the profile:
[attachment=22881:monitor.png]

are you using the default camera profile (provided by Phase One resp. Capture One) or a custom made profile?

That was the window i used when following your suggestion. Thanks.
I am using the Default camera profile: I have not felt inclined to profile a camera... yet.

Edit: i have assumed that C1 reads the camera profile from the raw file, rather than needing to find it somewhere in the computer system... is that right?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 03:36:42 AM by scott morrish » Logged
gss
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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 11:42:52 AM »
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Quote from: scott morrish
Edit: i have assumed that C1 reads the camera profile from the raw file, rather than needing to find it somewhere in the computer system... is that right?

That would be a reasonable assumption, but what does C1 say it is using when you go to the quick menu (Q) and look in Base Characteristics -> ICC Profile?
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scott morrish
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 12:06:44 PM »
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Quote from: gss
That would be a reasonable assumption, but what does C1 say it is using when you go to the quick menu (Q) and look in Base Characteristics -> ICC Profile?

Under Base Characteristics, for D700 files it is showing 'D700 generic', for P65+ files there is the usual choice of 'Portrait', 'Flash', 'Daylight' etc... they all have the same issue.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 12:17:46 PM »
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Quote from: gss
Quote
Edit: i have assumed that C1 reads the camera profile from the raw file, rather than needing to find it somewhere in the computer system... is that right?
That would be a reasonable assumption
not exactly. RAW files principally do not contain color profiles.

Quote from: scott morrish
Under Base Characteristics, for D700 files it is showing 'D700 generic', for P65+ files there is the usual choice of 'Portrait', 'Flash', 'Daylight' etc... they all have the same issue.
there is something wrong. Maybe make a clean unistall of C1 and re-install it completely...?
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scott morrish
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2010, 12:38:13 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
That would be a reasonable assumptionnot exactly. RAW files principally do not contain color profiles.

there is something wrong. Maybe make a clean unistall of C1 and re-install it completely...?

Will Do the re-installation... i'll let you know what happens.
Don't Phase include their own camera profiles in the raw files? ... or any other manufacturers for that matter?
Scott
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tho_mas
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2010, 04:25:19 PM »
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Quote from: scott morrish
Don't Phase include their own camera profiles in the raw files? ... or any other manufacturers for that matter?
no... not anybody assigns a profile to a RAW file.
Some manufacturers RAW softwares however may read EXIF tags referring to the color space set in the camera (sRBG, AdobeRGB or rarely ECI-RGB)... but still the physical profiles are not assigned to the actual RAW file.

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scott morrish
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2010, 04:47:20 AM »
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Quick up-date: In the end the thumbnail problem was identified by P1 as an issue with the particular OS version AND the particular C1 version.
Since both have been updated... the problem disappeared... and everything works as it should.

Thanks to all who helped.
Scott
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