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Author Topic: The importance of the spouse  (Read 7977 times)
fredjeang
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« on: July 02, 2010, 05:45:28 AM »
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Hi,

After reading an article in french about the importance of the conjoined in the business I had this idea to post a thread on that matter.

It is different of what could be expected on that forum, but the article (not about photography) was pointing that according to researches,
the wife, the husband, the lover etc...have generally a real impact on the business side, whatever the activity sector is. They can enhance it or complicate it.

I'm aware that this is a little abstract and at the same time very real. I find the subject quite interesting. As we are in the business area, it is aimed to that
aspect, as the article was.

Obviously, I'm not talking about the muse. Remember Helmut Newton and his wife? She was not inspiring him artistically but she seemed to play a key role for him.

The article was stressing that the election of the conjoined can be really the most important one in once career.

Is or was your life compaignon a master peice (and peace...) in your carrer that has or had real consequences on the business side?

Is that statement, "being with the right person" true when it comes to professional activity?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 11:41:16 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Ray
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2010, 07:54:02 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Hi,

After reading an article in french about the importance of the conjoined in the business I had this idea to post a thread on that matter.

It is different of what could be expected on that forum, but the article (not about photography) was pointing that according to researches,
the wife, the husband, the lover etc...have generally a real impact on the business side, whatever the activity sector is. They can enhance it or complicate it.

I'm aware that this is a little abstract and at the same time very real. I find the subject quite interesting. As we are in the business area, it is aimed to that
aspect, as the article was.

Obviously, I'm not talking about the muse. Remember Helmut Newton and his wife? She was not inspiring him artistically but she seemed to play a key role for him.

The article was stressing that the election of the conjoined can be really the most important one in once career.

Is or was your life compaignon a master peace in your carrer that has or had consequences on the business side?

Is that statement, "being with the right person" true when it comes to professional activity?


Fred,
I have no doubt that many spouses are very wary of their husband's photographic obsessions and the excessive expenditure that may be incurred.

I remember years ago, when I was working in the Australian Public Service, a female colleague complained to me (or at least enquired for some insight) as to why her husband kept buying new cameras, but rarely took any photos. He just played with the cameras, apparently obsessed with the technology.

I was stumped for an answer. I've always bought cameras because they had features which I believed would be useful.

My first hi-tech camera was the Pentax Spotmatic with built-in light meter. I thought it was fantastic, and took many photos on Kodachrome (45 years ago) which I've scanned many times with different scanners.

I think we have to accept that there's a lot of status-seeking in the world, which people are prepared to pay 'big bucks' for. It may be designer clothes which are priced at 100 times the cost of production. It may be expensive sports cars with a speed performance which is illegal on most roads.

It may be expensive cameras which have a slight performance edge on a much cheaper competitor. I place MFDB in this category.

If you want the best bang for the buck regarding hi tech cameras, get the Nikon D3X. MFDB is for a world where money is no issue and the cost of hiring a model for a few days may be more than the cost of the MFDB camera.

If that's the case, as I believe it is, but correct me if I'm wrong, the $50,000 cost of a camera is no big issue.

I would imagine that any savvy wife even remotely aware of such issues would be very concerned.

There a very strong tendency in human behaviour, as I'm sure you understand, to compensate for deficiencies; ie. deficiencies in talent.

I'll add that I have no urge whatsoever to buy into an MFDB system.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 08:08:06 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
Fred,
I have no doubt that many spouses are very wary of their husband's photographic obsessions and the excessive expenditure that may be incurred.

I remember years ago, when I was working in the Australian Public Service, a female colleague complained to me (or at least enquired for some insight) as to why her husband kept buying new cameras, but rarely took any photos. He just played with the cameras, apparently obsessed with the technology.

I was stumped for an answer. I've always bought cameras because they had features which I believed would be useful.

My first hi-tech camera was the Pentax Spotmatic with built-in light meter. I thought it was fantastic, and took many photos on Kodachrome (45 years ago) which I've scanned many times with different scanners.

I think we have to accept that there's a lot of status-seeking in the world, which people are prepared to pay 'big bucks' for. It may be designer clothes which are priced at 100 times the cost of production. It may be expensive sports cars with a speed performance which is illegal on most roads.

It may be expensive cameras which have a slight performance edge on a much cheaper competitor. I place MFDB in this category.

If you want the best bang for the buck regarding hi tech cameras, get the Nikon D3X. MFDB is for a world where money is no issue and the cost of hiring a model for a few days may be more than the cost of the MFDB camera.

If that's the case, as I believe it is, but correct me if I'm wrong, the $50,000 cost of a camera is no big issue.

I would imagine that any savvy wife even remotely aware of such issues would be very concerned.

There a very strong tendency in human behaviour, as I'm sure you understand, to compensate for deficiencies; ie. deficiencies in talent.

I'll add that I have no urge whatsoever to buy into an MFDB system.
Thanks for your answer Ray, but I think my OP was not aimed that much on gear but on the impact concerning the professional carreer.
Although I admit your points (the lady breake ABS in opposition to the male crazy gear orientated) are maybe part of this oscur equation.
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Rob C
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2010, 09:26:53 AM »
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It's a difficult one to answer: at best, you can only really know your own situation intimately enough for truthful response to such a question.

In my own case, I was already married and we had two kids when I started off on my own. My wife was totally behind me in the venture and I have to say, through good times and the inevitable bad ones, she never complained or suggested I do something else. But then, we met when she was fifteen and I seventeen, so there were few surprises to come along out of the blue and rock the boat. Even our backgrounds were pretty similar and I'm sure that helped a lot too; for a start, I realised from school that we had different strengths and she was far more into mathematics and the sciences than I ever was, which even now reflects on my attitude towards digital.

As far as the work side went, she did a fair amount of business entertaining for us which went well because she was a very accomplished chef, she had seen her own parents doing the same business thing from a very young age and it seemed natural to her; she had a clear mind and very little went past her. I remember once when we were down in England because I had a calendar being printed by a firm down there: the guys took us out to dinner and towards the end they made a pitch for me to do a calendar for one of their clients. She almost choked with amusement because of the way it was done - wine em, dine 'em and then make 'em a pitch! She always found male business strategy a strange, silly business where to speak clearly and upfront would save so much time and money and confused messages. For a start, all parties would be sober and remember what went down. She never did seem to want to accept that the need for the booze stems from insecurity and that without that lubricant many can't function...

When I first started doing foreign shoots I used to travel alone with the model(s) and client, if the client wanted to come along, and it might have seemed every man's dream life. It wasn't. Working alone with a girl for a week or two quickly and inevitably brings up many unstated problems/situations. The glaringly obvious one is: if I make a play she will either respond positively or it could wreck the shoot if she takes offence. The alternative is just as bad: if I don't make a pass, will she take that as an insult? Will she think I wished I had booked somebody else? Both ways you lose and the work can suffer. So, as soon as budgets allowed, I formed an offical business partnership and we both went on trips together. It resolved the sex problem for both sides, gave the girls somebody to talk with about their spots and, better yet, gave me someone with whom to share memories of places we had worked in, which was far better than memories for and of one.

But, but and but: there were certainly times when I just knew that I would have got better results from the girl if we had not had a wife standing there helping out. It all depends on the time, mood and circumstances of the job. Some girls react very positively to verbal flirtation during a shoot whilst others just want to get on and do their job without saying much. They are all different and I suppose so are the photographers.

If anything, I believe that where a wife can be invaluable is in the client relationship, particuarly on shoots, where tempers can rise and it helps to have a calming influence present - a buffer, someone who sees both sides of a problem at once and has the personal skills to pour oil where the waters need it most!

Overall? I would do it the same way again.

Referring to Ray's comments about equipment and wives: when I was working, Ann never, ever complained when I sometimes stretched us a bit to buy something I thought we needed to make the photography more flexible. But, after I quit, she hated me to buy anything photography-related. Again, I have to admit that she was right and I was wrong. Perhaps that's why I have so little stuff anymore: I realised she was right and photographic life for the amateur does not depend on covering ever situation that life might throw in your face.

Rob C

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fredjeang
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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2010, 09:35:59 AM »
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Very interesting. Difficult topic indeed.
Thanks Rob for this well writen, as always, description of your experience.
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Ray
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2010, 09:49:37 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Thanks for your answer Ray, but I think my OP was not aimed that much on gear but on the impact concerning the professional carreer.
Although I admit your points (the lady breake ABS in opposition to the male crazy gear orientated) are maybe part of this oscur equation.

I understand Fred. I wasn't really addressing the business aspect. Business is business, and image is important in more ways than one. If the purchase of expensive equipment pays for itself because it attracts the clients, I see no reason why the average wife would object.
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Rob C
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2010, 03:25:39 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
I understand Fred. I wasn't really addressing the business aspect. Business is business, and image is important in more ways than one. If the purchase of expensive equipment pays for itself because it attracts the clients, I see no reason why the average wife would object.



Boy, Ray, that's a red rag to many a - well, hardly bulls! Bravery indeed, though I suspect that you have given up on expectiong much distaff response in this forum... more female superiority at work, then.

Rob C
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Ray
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2010, 11:21:46 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Boy, Ray, that's a red rag to many a - well, hardly bulls! Bravery indeed, though I suspect that you have given up on expectiong much distaff response in this forum... more female superiority at work, then.

Rob C

Hi Rob,
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I'm of the opinion that business is business whatever the product. All businesses advertise to encourage interest in their product, and a good advertisement always exaggerates the benefits of the product.

If I were in the business of producing photos according to the clients' needs, I might find that the use of ridiculously expensive photographic equipment would attract more clients and even justify higher prices. I'm sure I could explain that situation to my spouse.  
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Rob C
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2010, 02:21:36 PM »
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Quote from: Ray
Hi Rob,
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I'm of the opinion that business is business whatever the product. All businesses advertise to encourage interest in their product, and a good advertisement always exaggerates the benefits of the product.

If I were in the business of producing photos according to the clients' needs, I might find that the use of ridiculously expensive photographic equipment would attract more clients and even justify higher prices. I'm sure I could explain that situation to my spouse.  




Hi Ray

Guess you missed the added italics... " the average wife".

Rob C
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Ray
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2010, 02:34:01 PM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Hi Ray

Guess you missed the added italics... " the average wife".

Rob C

Of course I did. You're not supposed to change peoples' quotes, Rob. That's very devious.
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Rob C
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2010, 03:38:51 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
Of course I did. You're not supposed to change peoples' quotes, Rob. That's very devious.




Nonsense, Ray, I changed it in public, not behind the cycle shed!

Next time, maybe I'll go for the BOLD, but it's so vulgar it might be misunderstood...

;-)

Rob C

P.S. Any Russian shots to look forward to seeing?
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fredjeang
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2010, 07:25:06 AM »
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My OP was basically not directed to the average whife or husband or lover or whatever who's going to watch if the mortage is not in danger after the last MFD purchase  

Think about Gala and Dali. Gala did have a real impact on Dali's business. Rob got it, but it seems that it does not interest anybody,

so back to gear specs, photokina rumors and sensors wars  

Cheers.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 07:26:05 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2010, 09:41:17 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
My OP was basically not directed to the average whife or husband or lover or whatever who's going to watch if the mortage is not in danger after the last MFD purchase  

Think about Gala and Dali. Gala did have a real impact on Dali's business. Rob got it, but it seems that it does not interest anybody,

so back to gear specs, photokina rumors and sensors wars  

Cheers.



Hey, Fred

I think there might be two problems:

a.  maybe most photographers don't have time for a relationship;

b.  those that do are perhaps unwilling to risk telling the world how great the input of their wife, girlfriend, partner or whatever because if or when the divorce comes along, WOW! hoist by their own petard!

I think I joke.

I was lucky: the reationship came before the serious commitment to the work, before wish became do it, one of my very rare moments of impeccable timing. Hell, she even helped me finance my first adjustable camera, the Voigtlander Vito B, out of her pocket money. I think the thing cost about 23 pounds in 1955 or thereabouts.  Maybe she should have known then what was to come...

I think (hope) I joke again.

Rob C
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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2010, 10:05:47 AM »
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Fred

Gala was one, but as we both know, Helmut had Alice, David Bailey had Jean as a muse if not wife, Sam Haskins had his wife working very cleverly, and unless I'm wrong, Patrick Demarchelier has had the same 'angel' for many years and as you say, I had mine. Picasso had a series, so I don't know if that counts as an advantage or a liablity.

Many fashion designers have had muses ( a muse fits into a separate but linked category) around whom they have built their reputations; my own was a young model who started out in fashion at more or less exactly the moment that I did. She came to see me for tests from the same agency I mentioned a couple of days ago that I heard about via their commercial over pirate radio - Radio Scotland - and that was it. From the first TXP in the Rollei I knew we were home. The joy of understanding that you have found somebody who is on the same wavelength, has all the energy and easily as much interest in the job as you do is worth its weight in platinum. I remember my in-laws meeting some other young model at some function and the girl saying to them, when she learned the connection with me, that had I but given the other girls the same attention... but she missed the point: it wasn't about trying others at all - it was about reaching upwards and outwards with the piece of good fortune you already hold in your life. I never liked surprises at work - happy accoidents, of course - but the thing about using one girl a lot is that each job you are building up from all that went before. Can anybody do that now, with costs as they are? And that was part of the bonus: we were happy to work with each other for the hell of it, no client involved, nada, just the buzz of new pictures. Priceless.

But, as with all good things, time moved inexorably along and brought change - husband, babies...

Now I have the blues again.

Rob C
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 10:07:45 AM by Rob C » Logged

fredjeang
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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2010, 10:52:39 AM »
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For what I know about Gala, she was far more prepared than Dali and had the right connections.
When she met him, Dali was a wreck, just about to give-up but she saw in him a genious mind.
She appears always as a docile spouse, hardly talk in public but she has the real control on the Dali business.
Also, she had very priviliged informations and litterally trained Dali.
In some interviews he talks about these things in between lines and has always recognized that without her he would have never
acheived the career we all know.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2010, 10:58:52 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Fred

Gala was one, but as we both know, Helmut had Alice, David Bailey had Jean as a muse if not wife, Sam Haskins had his wife working very cleverly, and unless I'm wrong, Patrick Demarchelier has had the same 'angel' for many years and as you say, I had mine. Picasso had a series, so I don't know if that counts as an advantage or a liablity.

Many fashion designers have had muses ( a muse fits into a separate but linked category) around whom they have built their reputations; my own was a young model who started out in fashion at more or less exactly the moment that I did. She came to see me for tests from the same agency I mentioned a couple of days ago that I heard about via their commercial over pirate radio - Radio Scotland - and that was it. From the first TXP in the Rollei I knew we were home. The joy of understanding that you have found somebody who is on the same wavelength, has all the energy and easily as much interest in the job as you do is worth its weight in platinum. I remember my in-laws meeting some other young model at some function and the girl saying to them, when she learned the connection with me, that had I but given the other girls the same attention... but she missed the point: it wasn't about trying others at all - it was about reaching upwards and outwards with the piece of good fortune you already hold in your life. I never liked surprises at work - happy accoidents, of course - but the thing about using one girl a lot is that each job you are building up from all that went before. Can anybody do that now, with costs as they are? And that was part of the bonus: we were happy to work with each other for the hell of it, no client involved, nada, just the buzz of new pictures. Priceless.

But, as with all good things, time moved inexorably along and brought change - husband, babies...

Now I have the blues again.

Rob C
I certainly beleive so!
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Ray
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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2010, 11:01:39 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
My OP was basically not directed to the average whife or husband or lover or whatever who's going to watch if the mortage is not in danger after the last MFD purchase  

Think about Gala and Dali. Gala did have a real impact on Dali's business. Rob got it, but it seems that it does not interest anybody,

so back to gear specs, photokina rumors and sensors wars  

Cheers.
 

Think about Gala and Dali?? Are you in search of titillating drama, Fred?  

Here's an extract from that wonderful encyclopedia, the internet.

Quote
Gala had a commercial streak. I am sure that came as a result of her childhood in Russia and her life as an ex-patriot in Paris. She became, well, not only an entrepreneur but a total opportunist. Regretfully, it spoiled the character of an otherwise wonderfully civilized woman, that's too bad. And also of course, she was a nymphomaniac and Dalí alone couldn't satisfy her sexually, so that boatmen or young actors or anything else would do. Eventually, Dalí got fed up and he slugged her in the Hotel Meurice. They broke up and that was the end for Dalí because she did all the business.

Not a good example, I think. Wouldn't you agree?

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Ray
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« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2010, 11:22:26 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
P.S. Any Russian shots to look forward to seeing?

Lots! But I have other work to do before I sort through the 8,000 images I took in Europe and Russia. But don't get me wrong. I'm not a 'spray and pray' type because I'm not religious. I spray with confidence   .

I still haven't quite finished the grouting of my tiling. Remember that job I mentioned a while ago? I had an accident breaking my right wrist during a fall, which caused a delay. My European and Russian trip has caused another delay.

I also think I should get a new computer to maximise the benefits of CS5, and a huge desk to accommodate all my equipment. Thank God I don't have the deadlines of the professional   .

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fredjeang
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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2010, 11:22:42 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
Think about Gala and Dali?? Are you in search of titillating drama, Fred?  

Here's an extract from that wonderful encyclopedia, the internet.



Not a good example, I think. Wouldn't you agree?
Okay, some of these statements are truth.
But according to the nymphomaniac, I find that term really sexist. If a woman has, let's say it correctly as we are here, a strong sexual apetite, she is a nymphomaniac to the society. (nymphomaniac is consider as an hillness...) But if a man has the same apetite he is a sort of genious.
I love high-sexual-apetite women!

But despite her extravagances she did a lot for Dali at a time he was just sinking. Did he paid such a price for that? Yes, but much less than he won.
That was a very profitable equation for both. Dali was not a poor indefensed victim beleive me.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 11:28:50 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Ray
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2010, 11:50:33 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Okay, some of these statements are truth.
But according to the nymphomaniac, I find that term really sexist. If a woman has, let's say it correctly as we are here, a strong sexual apetite, she is a nymphomaniac to the society. (nymphomaniac is consider as an hillness...) But if a man has the same apetite he is a sort of genious.
I love high-sexual-apetite women!

But despite her extravagances she did a lot for Dali at a time he was just sinking. Did he paid such a price for that? Yes, but much less than he won.
That was a very profitable equation for both. Dali was not a poor indefensed victim beleive me.
 
Not really. If a man has an insatiable sexual appetite, it's also considered an illness. Consider the film star Michael Douglas and the more recent revelations re Tiger Woods. Sex addiction, whether in the male or female, is considered to be a treatable condition.

Since you seem to know something about Gala and Dali, is it true that Dali sometimes watched his wife having sex with other men? Did he use them as subjects for some hidden pornographic paintings?
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