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Author Topic: Backups now done on quit - whose bright idea was that?  (Read 10036 times)
Craig Arnold
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« on: July 11, 2010, 04:51:11 PM »
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I understand that some people would rather have a fast startup and be prompted for backups when quitting.

But LR2 did it the other way round, and I far prefer a slower startup time and be able to quit quickly. I can't now quit LR and turn off my machine within a few seconds without compromising the backups.

If this was just the default and there was an option to do it the old way I would understand that, but if it's so blindingly obvious that I'm the only person in the world who liked the old way then why did they do that way in V1 & V2?

After a couple of weeks the only differences I can see are that:
1. The import dialog now puts all my files in the wrong places after an in-place upgrade.
2. The backup reminder is hugely annoying because it's at the wrong end of the workflow.
3. The add grain function is very poor.
4. Performance increase? Yeah right.

I am very much looking forward to Michael and Jeff's new tutorials because I'm feeling like the upgrade was seriously not worth it. I need enlightening.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 04:52:17 PM by Craig Arnold » Logged

john beardsworth
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 05:02:25 PM »
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There was huge demand for this change. It was counterintuitive that backup should happen when you started a program.

Have you not noticed the lens distortion correction or the better image quality? Minor features, I know....

John
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Schewe
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 09:52:50 PM »
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Quote from: Craig Arnold
3. The add grain function is very poor.


Uh huh...If you don't know how to use something, it would be useful to learn how to use it before saying it's poor...I find it quite useful for improving image quality.

As for the rest...who turns off their computer these days...seriously? Performance is fine on my machine, and you might also want to spend some time learning how to use import...I suggest using presets (less likely to make user errors that way which you seems to have issues with).
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Josh-H
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 09:57:14 PM »
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3. The add grain function is very poor.

Flip side of the coin...

I used the add Grain function to this shot - which was subsequently accepted for the Nillumbik prize and just sold for $750 for a 17" x 22" print.

so in my experience that add grain function is anything but poor - its actually extremely useful creatively.

Edit - as to back up on quit. All I can say is its about time this was implemented. I dont know about anyone else.. but I dont want to have to sit and wait forLightroom to back up before I can start working - much better on close.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 10:00:17 PM by Josh-H » Logged

Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2010, 11:52:17 PM »
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Quote from: Josh-H
Flip side of the coin...

I used the add Grain function to this shot - which was subsequently accepted for the Nillumbik prize and just sold for $750 for a 17" x 22" print.

so in my experience that add grain function is anything but poor - its actually extremely useful creatively.

Edit - as to back up on quit. All I can say is its about time this was implemented. I dont know about anyone else.. but I dont want to have to sit and wait forLightroom to back up before I can start working - much better on close.

And leaving the backup until the next session is pretty scary, IMHO.


Congrats on the prize and sale, Josh.

Eric

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-Eric Myrvaagnes

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Josh-H
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 12:29:03 AM »
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Congrats on the prize and sale, Josh.

Judging isnt final yet! But fingers crossed :-)  The sale is a done deal though.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:29:31 AM by Josh-H » Logged

ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 01:44:28 AM »
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Hi!

In my view the processing pipeline is much improved and lens corrections are great to have. Those two tings alone are definitively worth the upgrade:

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.ph...htroom-3-beta-2

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: Craig Arnold
I understand that some people would rather have a fast startup and be prompted for backups when quitting.

But LR2 did it the other way round, and I far prefer a slower startup time and be able to quit quickly. I can't now quit LR and turn off my machine within a few seconds without compromising the backups.

If this was just the default and there was an option to do it the old way I would understand that, but if it's so blindingly obvious that I'm the only person in the world who liked the old way then why did they do that way in V1 & V2?

After a couple of weeks the only differences I can see are that:
1. The import dialog now puts all my files in the wrong places after an in-place upgrade.
2. The backup reminder is hugely annoying because it's at the wrong end of the workflow.
3. The add grain function is very poor.
4. Performance increase? Yeah right.

I am very much looking forward to Michael and Jeff's new tutorials because I'm feeling like the upgrade was seriously not worth it. I need enlightening.
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kikashi
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 02:24:49 AM »
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Quote from: Eric Myrvaagnes
And leaving the backup until the next session is pretty scary, IMHO.
Absolutely right! The previous scheme was highly illogical. "I've just spent several hours working on photos. I'm sufficiently concerned about disk failure to use a program that has its own backup strategy.  Still, nothing bad can happen between now and when I next start it up, can it? I'm sure I'll be safe." Bizarre (with all due respect to whomever thought of it first).

Jeremy
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RogerW
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2010, 05:14:11 AM »
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Is this a wind-up?

The backup at the end of the session must be the best bet.  The new import is great, once you bother to learn how it works.  This is the best version of LR by far - and I've been using it since it was a beta, before publication.
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N Walker
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2010, 05:53:51 AM »
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[quote name='Schewe' date='Jul 12 2010, 03:52 AM' post='375785']

As for the rest...who turns off their computer these days...seriously?

I turn mine off every night as it is an unnecessary waste of energy and costs our household. If the energy saving personal responsibility route is tiresome for some then put it another way, I would rather purchase a few bottles of decent red wine for us rather than a shareholder enjoy the wine on our behalf.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 06:39:51 AM by Nick Walker » Logged

Per Zangenberg
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2010, 07:02:38 AM »
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Quote from: Craig Arnold
After a couple of weeks the only differences I can see are that:
1. The import dialog now puts all my files in the wrong places after an in-place upgrade.
2. The backup reminder is hugely annoying because it's at the wrong end of the workflow.
3. The add grain function is very poor.
4. Performance increase? Yeah right.

2. What kind of backup plan do you have? I never use the backup function in LR, because my LR catalog files are backed up to online server automatically every day. You can just backup your normal catalog files.

3. The grain feature is awesome! Before I used Photoshop with color effex, but now I can finally process a whole wedding shoot without leaving LR3. I love it!

4. I dont really know what performance gains they are claiming, but the CPU has a big part in performance. I recently upgraded from 3.8GHz C2D to 3.8GHz C2Quad and was happy with the general improvement in LR3 performance.
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NikoJorj
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2010, 09:20:48 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
As for the rest...who turns off their computer these days...seriously?
Well, energy bills being what they are (not to mention the heat generated by a 350W PS, it's already frying hot in Grenoble these days), we Europeans actually do that, yeah...

For that, a simple tickbox "shutdown computer at the end of the backup" would be almost as much appreciated as softproofing.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2010, 01:23:18 PM »
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Quote from: Craig Arnold
I understand that some people would rather have a fast startup and be prompted for backups when quitting.

But LR2 did it the other way round, and I far prefer a slower startup time and be able to quit quickly. I can't now quit LR and turn off my machine within a few seconds without compromising the backups.

If this was just the default and there was an option to do it the old way I would understand that, but if it's so blindingly obvious that I'm the only person in the world who liked the old way then why did they do that way in V1 & V2?

After a couple of weeks the only differences I can see are that:
1. The import dialog now puts all my files in the wrong places after an in-place upgrade.
2. The backup reminder is hugely annoying because it's at the wrong end of the workflow.
3. The add grain function is very poor.
4. Performance increase? Yeah right.

I am very much looking forward to Michael and Jeff's new tutorials because I'm feeling like the upgrade was seriously not worth it. I need enlightening.
1.  I have no problems with the import dialogs .. works perfectly and much nicer interface.  I'm not sure what you are referring to as in the wrong place after an in place upgrade.  I don't have anything in the wrong place.

2. The "backup" is definitely not at the wrong end of the workflow, it was bass ackwards before. How logical is it to backup something when you start on it, then spend a couple of hours changing things and then quit without backing up.  The point of backing up is to back up.  I never understood at all why backing up at the start was ever implemented.  To correct the issue in v1 and v2 I always skipped it at the start, then when I was finished would quit LR,  then relaunch it and backup, then quit it again.  Many people went through this exercise in frustration.  Sorry it doesn't float your boat, but you are in the minority here ... you may indeed be the only person in the world who doesn't like it.

3. no comment, I don't use it.  

4.  Not sure what you are using for hardware, but for me the performance increase was obvious and beneficial on both my laptop (macbook pro) and work station (macpro) running Snow Leopard.

There is a lot to like with LR 3, especially the new raw processing improvements as well as noise reduction.  To me the interface changes are logical and once you get used to them are nice. Of course, I've been using it since the first beta so I'm very used to it.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2010, 01:27:39 PM »
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Quote from: Nick Walker
I turn mine off every night as it is an unnecessary waste of energy and costs our household. If the energy saving personal responsibility route is tiresome for some then put it another way, I would rather purchase a few bottles of decent red wine for us rather than a shareholder enjoy the wine on our behalf.
Turning it off takes more energy than managing the system correctly allowing it to sleep after a period of not being used.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=powe...ower_management
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feppe
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2010, 03:06:02 PM »
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Quote from: Craig Arnold
I understand that [everyone but me] would rather have a fast startup and be prompted for backups when quitting.

My correction above  Having backup at the startup didn't make any sense and that was one of the most common complaints.
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dreed
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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2010, 04:00:01 PM »
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Quote from: Schewe
Uh huh...If you don't know how to use something, it would be useful to learn how to use it before saying it's poor...I find it quite useful for improving image quality.

As for the rest...who turns off their computer these days...seriously? Performance is fine on my machine, and you might also want to spend some time learning how to use import...I suggest using presets (less likely to make user errors that way which you seems to have issues with).

Those of us who use LR on laptops quite frequently turn off our machine and quite often this needs to happen quickly. On more than one occasion, I've spent the flight home doing a quick review of pictures, looking for the rejects, tidying up tags, etc. Of course in that case, we can simply opt to not do the backup but then, when can it happen? Maybe the answer is LR needs the ability to work differently in some scenarios and that it needs to be more sophisticated.

For example, in the plane scenario, maybe when it starts it needs to create a backup in the background and generate incremental backups whilst I'm running it so that shutdown should only be another small increment?
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sethresnick
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« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2010, 04:16:58 PM »
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One of the biggest issue with the backup of Lightroom is that many folks do not realize that the backup is of the catalog only and not the images. For me my choice is backup never because I would rather use a program like Retrospect or Super Duper and backup both my catalog and my images multiple times a day automatically.

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BobFisher
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« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2010, 05:28:53 PM »
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Quote from: Craig Arnold
I understand that some people would rather have a fast startup and be prompted for backups when quitting.

But LR2 did it the other way round, and I far prefer a slower startup time and be able to quit quickly. I can't now quit LR and turn off my machine within a few seconds without compromising the backups.

If this was just the default and there was an option to do it the old way I would understand that, but if it's so blindingly obvious that I'm the only person in the world who liked the old way then why did they do that way in V1 & V2?

After a couple of weeks the only differences I can see are that:
1. The import dialog now puts all my files in the wrong places after an in-place upgrade.
2. The backup reminder is hugely annoying because it's at the wrong end of the workflow.
3. The add grain function is very poor.
4. Performance increase? Yeah right.

I am very much looking forward to Michael and Jeff's new tutorials because I'm feeling like the upgrade was seriously not worth it. I need enlightening.

Why?  Sounds like your mind is made up.

The new import dialogue does blow chunks but for the rest, it's really not that big a deal.  Backup at the beginning or the end, not a huge deal, doesn't bother me either way.  If you're that set in your ways, that unwilling or unable to adapt, maybe going back to film would be a good idea.

The grain feature is kind of cool.  Not something that's going to get used a ton but can be useful.  Again though, probably not to a closed mind.

If you don't like the backup reminder coming at the time you close the program, turn it off entirely.  Your catalogue should be getting backed up in a regular system back up anyway.  You do back up your system regularly, right?  Right?  Or is that too much of a hassle when trying to turn your computer off so quickly too?
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kikashi
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2010, 02:27:00 AM »
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Quote from: dreed
Those of us who use LR on laptops quite frequently turn off our machine and quite often this needs to happen quickly.
Really? Why?

The only time* I ever shut down my laptop (a MacBook Pro) is when I'm going away for many days, not taking it with me, and I'm concerned that the battery will run out before I get back. Otherwise, I simply close the lid and it goes to sleep, ready to awaken instantly when I need it. What reason do you have for shutting it down?

Jeremy

* correction: I did shut it down once when I wasn't going away, to insert some memory.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2010, 03:25:26 AM »
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Jeremy - read the next sentence from the post you quoted.

In any case, what's the value in doing a backup in a hurry and onto the same machine as you're using? If you have to close down in a hurry, skip the backup until you have time to do it properly.

John
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