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Author Topic: "Diglloyd" is testing the Leica S2  (Read 15732 times)
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2010, 04:34:32 PM »
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Deleted, sorry!
Quote from: bjanes
That statement is demonstrably false. Your Phase system is not good for rapid action sports photography or photojournalism in rapidly evolving low light situations. It's frame rate is two slow and the auto focus system not up to the task. The D3s would be better for these situations.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 04:36:53 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

tho_mas
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« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2010, 05:05:25 PM »
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Quote from: ErikKaffehr
I have seen that test, even downloaded an image from the Hasselblad HD50 and the Nikon 3DX and printed in A2 and had some friends (seasoned imaging professionals) have a look. Both preferred the Nikon image, although one found the Hassy image be sharper. DOF is very short on those images and that can cheat the eye. Also, tonality matters a lot. It's a bit hard to do this comparison with live models as the pictures will not be identical.

Finding out the relative merits of systems takes a lot more than a single picture. I'd say that well designed tests say more than a single portrait shot.
I agree. Just thought to post something "real".
However the "reality" shown there (which I find to be somewhat authentic all in all) is that the D3x doesn't match the Hassy CF22 in terms of details/microcontrast or however you may call it. Let alone the higher res backs.
If those advantages do not translate into prints than that's a different issue (sharpening technique or whatever...).
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2010, 05:29:34 PM »
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Quote from: eronald
Each time I got out the Mamiya it was "please God, let it focus today".

Edmund
LOL. Thanks, Edmund, I needed a good laugh today. Because I've had the exact same problem and know from whence you come.
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eronald
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« Reply #83 on: July 18, 2010, 06:31:50 PM »
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I like Guy - he's positive, I'm negative, he makes a living with esoterical tech objects, I shoot the standard cameras for fun

The strange thing about MF is that the backs are really good and robust and the files can take everything inlcuding dramatic underexposure. But the cameras are slow rattling behemoths which make one long for a Super Ikonta or Rolleiflex.

Edmund
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 06:37:13 PM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2010, 07:45:41 PM »
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Quote from: bjanes
Guy,

Calm down! I was not attributing those statements to you, but was only agreeing with the main premise of your post. My other comments were in response to statements by others on this thread.


Perhaps in your circles. But have you ever looked at the equipment used by photojournalists working for bankrupt newspapers such as the Chicago Tribune? These papers are not upgrading equipment that is suitable for the relatively modest demands of newsprint.


I am calm really I am . LOL

Your correct though obviously MF is not for some things for sure, which I don't shoot. Actually the AF is pretty quick as I do use it for runway and PR work. Frame rate will get you though if nothing else does.

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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2010, 07:51:02 PM »
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Quote from: eronald
I like Guy - he's positive, I'm negative, he makes a living with esoterical tech objects, I shoot the standard cameras for fun

The strange thing about MF is that the backs are really good and robust and the files can take everything inlcuding dramatic underexposure. But the cameras are slow rattling behemoths which make one long for a Super Ikonta or Rolleiflex.

Edmund


Edmund are you using a DF or something older. The DF does focus pretty quick and is a better cam overall. I can see your comments on anything earlier though. Hated the AFDII and the III was just marginally better. I think we need to remember almost any 35mm can smoke a MF for focusing though and frame rate for sure but I do find the DF very accurate. I have a little Canon T2I and for 900 bucks is pretty darn quick
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 07:51:58 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

Nick Rains
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« Reply #86 on: July 19, 2010, 03:07:55 AM »
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Quote from: eronald
I like Guy - he's positive, I'm negative, he makes a living with esoterical tech objects, I shoot the standard cameras for fun

The strange thing about MF is that the backs are really good and robust and the files can take everything inlcuding dramatic underexposure. But the cameras are slow rattling behemoths which make one long for a Super Ikonta or Rolleiflex.

Edmund

That's a big part of my attraction to the S2. I have shot with the Hassys and the Phases and I (personally) don't especially enjoy the experience. I rate their IQ very highly, but the camera bodies are 'less than stellar' shall we say. I actively enjoy working with the S2, I was out this evening in light rain by a coastal billabong and I really enjoyed the way the MLU is so smooth and the shutter release is just so discrete.

I find that if I enjoy the shooting experience I get better images. Go figure...
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Nick Rains
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markowich
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« Reply #87 on: July 19, 2010, 05:48:08 AM »
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Quote from: Nick Rains
That's a big part of my attraction to the S2. I have shot with the Hassys and the Phases and I (personally) don't especially enjoy the experience. I rate their IQ very highly, but the camera bodies are 'less than stellar' shall we say. I actively enjoy working with the S2, I was out this evening in light rain by a coastal billabong and I really enjoyed the way the MLU is so smooth and the shutter release is just so discrete.

I find that if I enjoy the shooting experience I get better images. Go figure...


i agree totally. the S shooting experience is very nice. i just wish the postprocessing experience of S files was half as nice.
peter
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fredjeang
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« Reply #88 on: July 19, 2010, 06:07:23 AM »
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Here we are again! in the middle of the Pearl Harbour saga.

Nothing has changed since the last war.

Basically, the dslr squadron, commanded by the D3x papies are bombing again the MFD fleet.
Captain Bernard, great Commander of the D3x, y and z is pointing the superiority of the japanese AA filtered gears to keep the troup moral high enough,
while Guy is suddenly receiving all the bombs. The other MFD players have left Guy battled alone because they are playing golf somewhere on the harbour.
As Commander Guy has a thick skin, he handles pretty well the DxO rockets so far.

Ray, Commander of the special task, in charge of infiltrating the enemy lines by night and strike with a 50 lines post, his waiting the right moment to enter into action
while Erik, Commander of the scientific section is making calculations to compare the real forces involved.

Soon, Fred, the Robin wood of the lost causes, will arrive with an anti-DxO gaz weapon to help Commander Guy while General Michael is watching the war while packing with
a finger on the closed-thread button.

Commander Rob, from the reserve task force, is asking to be informed about the use of kodachrome weapon to strike any digital device. He will soon be helped by
the LF users when they will have finished their golf course and social cuban cigars.
By the time, Commander Mancuso is starting to be injured by some live-view and frames-per-second weapons and will have to left the battle field soon while the
Bargainers are comming with their Sony 900-850 and 5DMK2 artillery to strike-back the D3x superiority.
Commander Languiller is going to launch another Nikon DR missiles in order to shut-down the bargainers attack.

Captain Chris is broadcasting the battle from his yatch anchoered a little further in the harbour while the rescue nurses commanded by Tokengirl are sending drawings
on the battle-field to try to stop the bombing with zero effect.
Mark's legion is still receiving from time to time isolated sarcastics icons from the last war.

Suddenly, Michael is pressing the red button. Topic closed before a clear winner had emerged. Shhhhht!! What are we going to do now?

Just, start another one in 3 weeks!
But sure this time Commander Mancuso will be on the golf course with the others, cool and relaxed while he will hear the sound of the dslr AA filtered bombings on the very far west.

And we ask ourselves why man has never learned from history and we still have wars?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 06:58:32 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #89 on: July 19, 2010, 08:36:36 AM »
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Damn Fred I just spit my espresso all over my NEC. Have to reload. LOL
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Rob C
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« Reply #90 on: July 19, 2010, 11:48:14 AM »
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Fred

You may not be far wrong about the Kodachrome Weapons.

This little French trip I'm thinking about - I was wondering if I should use it as an opportunity for finishing off most of the film that I still have in the freezer. After all, the Nikon F is almost a virgin - a semi-virgin would be close (a fine definition is available from Paula Prentiss in What's New Pussycat) - and I certainly wouldn't have to hide in a toilet to change lenses. I'd even get to play with the Minolta Flash Meter again and when I got rid of that horrid 2.8/24-70 Gzoomer I was back with Nikkor lenses that fit all great Nikons.

Of course, there's no hope for the actual Kodachrome in the ice anymore, but I do have lots of Ektachrome 100 still sitting there, even some 50 ASA (!) Velvia in 120 but I have no 120 camera now, and buying another Hasselblad at this stage would bring in the horror of a 120 scanner... no, forget that! It might cost a bit to process - probably stop off in Barcelona for that, and instead of looking for a hotel for the night I could just go riding around and around and around near the ferry just like Chuck Berry...

We shall see. The family is coming to visit at the end of the week - I may be too pooped to pop after that.

Rob C
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #91 on: July 19, 2010, 12:31:32 PM »
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Hi!

I see your point, it's well taken and great fun.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: fredjeang
Here we are again! in the middle of the Pearl Harbour saga.

Nothing has changed since the last war.

Basically, the dslr squadron, commanded by the D3x papies are bombing again the MFD fleet.
Captain Bernard, great Commander of the D3x, y and z is pointing the superiority of the japanese AA filtered gears to keep the troup moral high enough,
while Guy is suddenly receiving all the bombs. The other MFD players have left Guy battled alone because they are playing golf somewhere on the harbour.
As Commander Guy has a thick skin, he handles pretty well the DxO rockets so far.

Ray, Commander of the special task, in charge of infiltrating the enemy lines by night and strike with a 50 lines post, his waiting the right moment to enter into action
while Erik, Commander of the scientific section is making calculations to compare the real forces involved.

Soon, Fred, the Robin wood of the lost causes, will arrive with an anti-DxO gaz weapon to help Commander Guy while General Michael is watching the war while packing with
a finger on the closed-thread button.

Commander Rob, from the reserve task force, is asking to be informed about the use of kodachrome weapon to strike any digital device. He will soon be helped by
the LF users when they will have finished their golf course and social cuban cigars.
By the time, Commander Mancuso is starting to be injured by some live-view and frames-per-second weapons and will have to left the battle field soon while the
Bargainers are comming with their Sony 900-850 and 5DMK2 artillery to strike-back the D3x superiority.
Commander Languiller is going to launch another Nikon DR missiles in order to shut-down the bargainers attack.

Captain Chris is broadcasting the battle from his yatch anchoered a little further in the harbour while the rescue nurses commanded by Tokengirl are sending drawings
on the battle-field to try to stop the bombing with zero effect.
Mark's legion is still receiving from time to time isolated sarcastics icons from the last war.

Suddenly, Michael is pressing the red button. Topic closed before a clear winner had emerged. Shhhhht!! What are we going to do now?

Just, start another one in 3 weeks!
But sure this time Commander Mancuso will be on the golf course with the others, cool and relaxed while he will hear the sound of the dslr AA filtered bombings on the very far west.

And we ask ourselves why man has never learned from history and we still have wars?
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fredjeang
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« Reply #92 on: July 19, 2010, 12:44:47 PM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Fred

You may not be far wrong about the Kodachrome Weapons.

This little French trip I'm thinking about - I was wondering if I should use it as an opportunity for finishing off most of the film that I still have in the freezer. After all, the Nikon F is almost a virgin - a semi-virgin would be close (a fine definition is available from Paula Prentiss in What's New Pussycat) - and I certainly wouldn't have to hide in a toilet to change lenses. I'd even get to play with the Minolta Flash Meter again and when I got rid of that horrid 2.8/24-70 Gzoomer I was back with Nikkor lenses that fit all great Nikons.

Of course, there's no hope for the actual Kodachrome in the ice anymore, but I do have lots of Ektachrome 100 still sitting there, even some 50 ASA (!) Velvia in 120 but I have no 120 camera now, and buying another Hasselblad at this stage would bring in the horror of a 120 scanner... no, forget that! It might cost a bit to process - probably stop off in Barcelona for that, and instead of looking for a hotel for the night I could just go riding around and around and around near the ferry just like Chuck Berry...

We shall see. The family is coming to visit at the end of the week - I may be too pooped to pop after that.

Rob C
Rob,
I think it would be too bad to loose all these films that are waiting in the fridge.
I do not know in the Island, but the prices in Madrid are affordable.

Pro digitalization start from 4 euros to 16 euros for the best scans (one frame), files of 62mb in 35mm, wich you would only do on the very best you'd like to print but you can also have a normal scan of the all 36 frames for 12euros.
1 slides roll developped E-6 36 frames costs about 12-10 euros.

I spend more than that in bloody tobacco! That makes me think I should quit smoking and shoot back film.

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Rob C
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« Reply #93 on: July 19, 2010, 03:34:21 PM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Rob,
I think it would be too bad to loose all these films that are waiting in the fridge.
I do not know in the Island, but the prices in Madrid are affordable.

Pro digitalization start from 4 euros to 16 euros for the best scans (one frame), files of 62mb in 35mm, wich you would only do on the very best you'd like to print but you can also have a normal scan of the all 36 frames for 12euros.
1 slides roll developped E-6 36 frames costs about 12-10 euros.

I spend more than that in bloody tobacco! That makes me think I should quit smoking and shoot back film.


Hi Fred

The last I heard, the island labs have stopped doing E6. There is still EGM (?) in Barcelona and I think they charge 8 a pop for 35mm films, but it's been a while since I checked them out. But I'm sure Barcelona won't hang around growing dust on prices!

I do my own scanning with a CanoScan FS4000US and am perfectly pleased with the results - the great thing is the lightbox! So easy and quick, and making comparisons between slides in any way you like is also a joy; I really feel a mixture of emotions for those lost arts: a sense of sorrow and of anger, too, that it's gone with the friggin' wind.

And yet, how do you lose the feeling that perhaps it's just good money after bad? As there ain't no client, why spend money - there is nothing wrong with the digitals I have. Why do I get my head into these things? Cut your losses comes to mind as being an applicable phrase!

Rob C
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Ray
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« Reply #94 on: July 20, 2010, 01:10:03 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Here we are again! in the middle of the Pearl Harbour saga.

You've got a great sense of humour, Fred, and not too short on the imagination. Keep it up!   .
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Dan Wells
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« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2010, 03:37:10 PM »
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The D3x truly is a special camera - I just put another 4,000 frames on mine (approaching 30,000 images in a year and a half - mostly landscapes and macros) on a two-week shoot in a couple of National Parks in western North America. Nikon doesn't get nearly enough praise for just HOW good it really is (and note that Canon's response has been to sit there with their jaws dropping open - I suspect there may have been a 1Ds mk IV prototype that was never released because it didn't beat the D3x - they are probably finishing up a new version now, accounting for the long delay). Sadly, the D3x may forever remain a unique camera in Nikon's lineup, and may even be discontinued without replacement, because it uses a modified version of a Sony sensor that may be pulled off the market, as mentioned by Thom Hogan. Sony is apparently not having much luck with the Alpha 850 and 900, and it may not be worth making the sensor just for the limited-production D3x (Nikon sells all they can make, but production is kept quite low). Nobody seems to know what Nikon does to the Sony sensor (or some other component), but whatever it is, it works - a D3x is not just an Alpha in a fancy body - it really DOES have significantly better image quality, especially in terms of low-ISO dynamic range. The low-pass filter also seems to be unique, and there has been some speculation that it is very expensive and partially responsible for the cost of the camera.
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eronald
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« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2010, 05:04:00 PM »
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I think Nikon is perfectly capable of making a a D4 next year which will be about 18MP and HI ISO, HI frame rate and good HI-ISO movie mode. There is no necessity yet for a D3x successor, until Canon has had a chance to alienate its users again with soft images and bad AF.

Edmund


Quote from: Dan Wells
The D3x truly is a special camera - I just put another 4,000 frames on mine (approaching 30,000 images in a year and a half - mostly landscapes and macros) on a two-week shoot in a couple of National Parks in western North America. Nikon doesn't get nearly enough praise for just HOW good it really is (and note that Canon's response has been to sit there with their jaws dropping open - I suspect there may have been a 1Ds mk IV prototype that was never released because it didn't beat the D3x - they are probably finishing up a new version now, accounting for the long delay). Sadly, the D3x may forever remain a unique camera in Nikon's lineup, and may even be discontinued without replacement, because it uses a modified version of a Sony sensor that may be pulled off the market, as mentioned by Thom Hogan. Sony is apparently not having much luck with the Alpha 850 and 900, and it may not be worth making the sensor just for the limited-production D3x (Nikon sells all they can make, but production is kept quite low). Nobody seems to know what Nikon does to the Sony sensor (or some other component), but whatever it is, it works - a D3x is not just an Alpha in a fancy body - it really DOES have significantly better image quality, especially in terms of low-ISO dynamic range. The low-pass filter also seems to be unique, and there has been some speculation that it is very expensive and partially responsible for the cost of the camera.
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
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