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Author Topic: Z3200  (Read 1403 times)
deanwork
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« on: July 20, 2010, 08:29:57 AM »
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Although there are a lot of t Z3100 fade tests well along at aardenburg-imaging.com, there are no Z3200 samples in test.

The difference between the two being the newer red formula of the 3200.

If anyone would like to submit samples they would like to have them in test now to compare to the new reformulated Canon Lucia inks and the 3100 tests now well along.

john
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 08:31:43 AM by deanwork » Logged
kers
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 05:24:18 AM »
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Quote from: deanwork
Although there are a lot of t Z3100 fade tests well along at aardenburg-imaging.com, there are no Z3200 samples in test.
The difference between the two being the newer red formula of the 3200.
If anyone would like to submit samples they would like to have them in test now to compare to the new reformulated Canon Lucia inks and the 3100 tests now well along.
john


Is this a site you have to pay for?

i always go to www.wilhelm-research.com/

there they tested the z3200 on various papers- a pdf link is below



http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/WIR_HP_..._2009_02_19.pdf
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Pieter Kers
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deanwork
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 08:34:23 AM »
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This is a totally different situation than Wilhelm. This guy is the co-author of the I * Metric system of longevity testing with Wilhelm. Wilhelm Research does it's tests FOR the corporations that make the printers, inks, and media, while Aardenburg-Imaging.com takes samples from any end user who is a member. Most inks and papers are now showing multiple tests from various members to show you a pattern of stability.  A membership is $25.00 a year. It was worth that just to read the data the first time, for me but I submitted a lot of things that hadn't been tested at all, as many others have this year. I was reassured by some samples I had tested and shocked by others.

 I have already found out a lot of things about both inks and media that is failing or doing very well. It is way more accurate and specific than Wilhelm. It shows color casts ( I color) that are introduced over time in monochrome, as well as density fade ( I - Tone) and displays the data separately. It also shows how prints change over time according to different levels of illumination - gallery light, museum light, 450 lux, brighter home lighting, etc, etc. It is very specific about what is going on and has actual displayed color or grayscale targets on the site, as the test is in progress. It is way beyond what is suggested by Wilhelm or anyone else. It shows the effect optical brighteners have on various media and how that effects color changes in high values, like skin tones, midtones, etc.

The other advantage is that you can test any media with any inkset combination that the OEM printer companies don't want you to even think about. It is a real education in my opinion. Just read about the procedure on that site. Every once in awhile something really significant comes along in this industry and opens your eyes. This is one of those situations. At this point I don't think he is even breaking even on what it costs to run this outfit, even though it is a pretty significant investment.  But hopefully in the future he will have enough members, or corporate support from museums, galleries, and other tech companies that care about all this .

The new Canon inks are now in test and the Z3100 Vivera inks are well represented as are the original Lucia inks Epson K3, and third party inks. What he needs now is some Z3200 samples because of the change in the red channel. All the the media Hanhemuhle, Canson, Epson, HP, Canon,Harmon, Canvas types, etc etc, are in test with different inksets in many situations.

john




Quote from: kers
Is this a site you have to pay for?

i always go to www.wilhelm-research.com/

there they tested the z3200 on various papers- a pdf link is below



http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/WIR_HP_..._2009_02_19.pdf
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Sven W
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 08:54:35 AM »
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All printmakers who can afford $25, should really support Mark McCormick-Goodhart´s superior work and research !!

/Sven
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kers
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 12:44:22 PM »
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Quote from: deanwork
This is a totally different situation than Wilhelm. ....
john


OK that is clear, I will look into it. thanks

Pieter Kers
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Pieter Kers
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 02:18:44 PM »
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Quote from: Sven W
All printmakers who can afford $25, should really support Mark McCormick-Goodhart´s superior work and research !!

/Sven
Absolutely worth supporting and seeing some very surprising results.  I sent a note to Mark a month or so ago about the striking difference in the results of the new Epson Hot Press and the big difference in white point fading between the 'bright' and 'natural' versions of the paper.  The 'bright' which contains OBAs actually showed less fading than the 'natural.'  This is a resource all of us should thoroughly review to better determine what papers are best for our particular printers.

Alan
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MHMG
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 09:49:48 AM »
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Quote from: Alan Goldhammer
Absolutely worth supporting and seeing some very surprising results.  I sent a note to Mark a month or so ago about the striking difference in the results of the new Epson Hot Press and the big difference in white point fading between the 'bright' and 'natural' versions of the paper.  The 'bright' which contains OBAs actually showed less fading than the 'natural.'  This is a resource all of us should thoroughly review to better determine what papers are best for our particular printers.

Alan

Alan, Sven, and John, thank you for your kind words of support.  And yes, I've been surprised by some of the results as well. The monochrome print sample on the Z3100 with HP Pro Satin is a also very good example of unexpected results, i.e., a very stable ink set being undermined by a lesser paper choice and a demanding B&W image neutrality requirement.

I started AaI&A about three years ago to give serious amateur and professional printmakers a much better understanding of how choices in printers, inks, papers, and coatings affect print durability. The headwinds have been very very strong. This research program has been a tough program to get off the ground for any number of reasons, but these three quickly come to mind:  1) The testing is very labor intensive and takes time to build a meaningful body of work for people to look at,  2) many end-users of digital print media erroneously believe that sticking with OEM pigmented inks is all that is necessary to achieve an "archival" print these days, and 3) many people believe this type of image permanence information should be free, e.g, routinely and freely provided by vendors.

My experience in image permanence testing enabled me to understand that the consumer-oriented test results currently sponsored by vendors, although well intentioned and useful as a general benchmark for image stability, have liberal fade tolerances that are not appropriate to fine art printmaking where the image quality standards should be much higher.  Serious collectors will notice even subtle shifts in image quality. Thus, the current industry-sponsored test results often overlook critical early stages of fading where the prints will lose their pristine original beauty.  And typically, these published results are for OEM-branded printer/ink/paper combination only or in some cases provided for select printer/OEM ink sets by major paper manufacturers. Thus, the industry-sponsored business model that relies on fee-for-service laboratory testing is simply ill-suited to deal with cross-branded printer/ink/paper combinations in test. Which vendor would pay to test product combinations it doesn't sell?  An undue financial burden would shift entirely to the paper manufacturers in that situation since only the paper is likely to be a common factor across more than one printer model.  Hence, the reason for an end-user or group-sponsored program like Aardenburg's digital print research program to fulfill the need for more comprehensive testing.

My website programmer and I are currently putting the finishing touches on a greatly improved search and sort capability for the AaI&A database, and hopefully it should deploy on the website within the next couple of weeks.  And I"m also currently adding additional test capacity so that the testing database will continue to grow steadily. I would indeed like AaI&A members to submit some Z3200 samples plus more Canon x300 series samples!  Indeed,  I'd buy these printers for the AaI&A print lab and print the test samples myself,  but other items like the new database programming and additional testing capacity sucked up the entire budget for this year  

cheers,

Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com


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