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Author Topic: a perfect non tethered fashion work  (Read 7058 times)
fredjeang
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« on: July 23, 2010, 12:07:14 PM »
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Hi,

Yesterday I did the making of a huge fashion shot in Madrid.
Big name winter collection, 1 full month of working.

Famous photographer, a friend of mine and lovelly person, 15 people in the plateau, international models, etc...

That was the best experience, the most plaisant and professional I have participeted. One of these days where you do not want to stop because everything is working perfectly fine,
because everybody is where he should be, concentrated on the task, involved in the session and you know that the work is going bloody right.
Absolutly great models, great make-up, hair stylist, retoucher, plateau techs...
I wish all the time things could be like this.

No tethered session! This photographer hates to work tether. Canon and cards, directly to the reouchers and from them to the brand's team and AD sending to the client.
All in live, no waiste of time, no need to tether. No distractions on the plateau, no freezing, no cables, nothing but efficient, clean. No strange devices, no gadgets, no I.pad (but some I.phones as expected).
No hassles but the best bloody shooting I was for ages. I still have the feeling of that moment and really learned a lot.

I don't think I'm going to worry any more about that tether task issues and just enjoy a perfectly classic shooting where all the team is concerned and involved.

Morality? disconect the cables, the laptop and put the I.pad in the fridge, with the old films never developped and enjoy a new life! For me tether task is really over.

Best regards.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 12:24:34 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 12:30:03 PM »
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And the next step is doing it with b/w film ...


















/sry - I just couldn't resist ....
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jimgolden
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 12:44:00 PM »
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Quote from: ChristophC
And the next step is doing it with b/w film ...



/sry - I just couldn't resist ....

I'll cross process mine, thx ; )
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Rob C
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 10:37:42 AM »
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Kind of surprising that the few responses are couched in what stikes me as mocking style.

I see little wrong with a photographer who has found a system that works for him. It might be an extension of the malaise that sweeps through these corridors at times  - that feeling that method A is inevitably better than method B because it's how I (whoever it is) see things personally. I also find it an easy step to take - it works on auto-pilot, if you look around; the thing is, as with all art, there is no ideal way of doing anything, only the way that suits your circumstances and likes and gives you the result you wanted in the first place.

Inevitably, it brings one back to the comparisons between shooting digital or film; folks throw in the Polaroid issue as a sort of compensatory element to make digital appear less convoluted an alternative than it really is. Much gets made of the 'instant' feedback etc. but the thing is, I can't say that anything seen today really looks better than anything seen in the film era. Indeed, I would contend that digital is far less convincing, particularly with people, and the studio/location hysterics of monitors etc. seem to me to be at least as bad as Polaroid in setting forever in semi-stone a line of thinking that was not necessarily the best; one might come up with better just shooting freely around something that was starting to happen. For that's all fashion photography skill is: the encouragement of nature, chance, inspiration or call it what you will, to give the possibility of birth to a situation towards which you feel an instinctive, mutual path.

One of my calendar clients used to insist on Polaroids; I  explained that normally Nikons didn't take backs like that, but he was adamant, so I bought a cheap SX-something type camera and after the real shooting was finished as well as I thought we could shoot it, we then did a little piccy on the roll-out picture machine which I masked with tape to 2x3 shape and gave to him back at the hotel. Everybody was happy. But, to stop and start, swap from one back to another, Hey-Soos, that must be a passion killer in its own right.

Coitus interruptus comes to mind. No wonder it doesn't convince, just brings about employment for the clean-up man.

Wonderful how willing slavery can become.

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 08:26:00 AM by Rob C » Logged

fredjeang
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 11:10:08 AM »
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The next day of the making-off, I asked him why he does not shoot tether any more.

His answer was exactly the same as Gwift explained one day in another thread (don't remember the orthography, sorry for that if Gwift read this post): too much distraction on the plateau in tethered sessions.
The thing is that people like gwift, Rob etc know what they are talking about.

This is not an allergy to tether shooting, it is simply because people are not concentrated on what is happening in front of them because they all watch the screen instead of watching the model.
It is as simple as that. And for what I've heard, many serious photographer who have experienced that have removed the tether task from their sessions.

Now, tether can be very usefull indeed, but not in a fashion shot, IMO. If it can be avoid, better.

Having seen how much more efficient is to do a non tether shooting in this particular configuration, it is not a step forward.

Gwift was absolutly right.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 12:46:58 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Anthony R
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 11:19:33 AM »
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Unless it's a must because of the client, I do not shoot tethered either. It's not the end of the world if I have to, but things are smoother and faster if I'm the only one to check the lcd back and I rarely glance.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 03:00:14 PM »
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Actually my comment was not just meant as mocking (okay a slight bit maybe), but more an attempt to make a sort of funny exaggeration
of how I understood the OP.
Tethering or non-tethering is a huge change in the setting of a photography session which changes the way how the whole thing is going.
Doing it with b/w film would be a similar step in that direction.
Basically this is one (of several) reasons why I stick with film, and why I decided to focus more on b/w for my personal work.
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RomainVaucher
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 05:36:17 AM »
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I also like when I work with a back that can hold cards to work with smaller cards ( 1/2 Gb ). It feels a lot like the workflow I had with film. Shoot 10 pictures then pause then 10 more, etc.. (used to work with 6x7.)

If I shoot tethered I do not know when to pause etc and I do not have this rythm in the shoot. This is very important for me. I knew in the days, I need 5 rolls of this and 3 of that. Now these are cards but the workflow is the same.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 08:20:30 AM »
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Here it is.

The cards are like the film rolls and as you point they give a certain rythm in the workflow. Shoot, change card, shoot...All become less chaotic, pauses are usefull and everybody is concentrated where it should be.

Also, tether has issues, can crash, sometimes can be unstable and the fun gadget becomes easily an hassle source. Although it is true that cards in heavy use end to have problems also with formating.

I would do the I.pad wireless if for example in a crane configuration, these sort of stuff. Tether if there is no other way and with some MF, specially the bad lcds backs from Phase,
(and maybe a miracle in the Phase house will make them understand the need to put once for a while a good lcd in their products, (dream-on)) but tether with the Canon in a fashion shot is pure distraction more than really usefull.
and the only reason I see is to please a fashionable client or AD (as they are generally very...faaaashionn so they need their little devices to feel cooool).

Ps: and about the tablets, first time I saw that pic from Mr Reichmann here trying a tablet on field, and too bad I can not find the pic any more but it's there, I asked myself if Michael was having a bondage session with the strap and conections. All hanging on the tripod and stuff like that. Sure that the only thing you want to do after this sexy experience is disconnect the all circus and go to have a beer on the corner bar. If no wireless, no thanks.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 01:37:03 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 07:56:24 AM »
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For normal working I sometimes will shoot untethered but for important work I can't off a reason why not to, to be honest.
Especially with mf the focus is very critical (at least for what I do) and with shooting on the card I simply can't judge with 100% certaincy if I nailed the shot.
I have to say that in 99% of the cases the shot is there but when you're working on the clock for a client you better be 100% sure.

I always tilt my monitor away from the model and ask the team to not interfere with the shoot, look, and keep quiet.
The advantage is that after a session the model can see what she's doing and can interact with the team if she can improve.

A lot of people will say tethered is slower, bit for me it's much faster, I find that with untethered I shoot more just to be sure, with tethered I'm much quicker and feel much better because I know I got it.

Long enough cables help a lot by the way

But as mention bij robc it's all a personal choice, whatever works as long as you get the shot, there is no good or wrong.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 09:05:41 AM »
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Quote from: Frank Doorhof
For normal working I sometimes will shoot untethered but for important work I can't off a reason why not to, to be honest.
Especially with mf the focus is very critical (at least for what I do) and with shooting on the card I simply can't judge with 100% certaincy if I nailed the shot.
I have to say that in 99% of the cases the shot is there but when you're working on the clock for a client you better be 100% sure.

I always tilt my monitor away from the model and ask the team to not interfere with the shoot, look, and keep quiet.
The advantage is that after a session the model can see what she's doing and can interact with the team if she can improve.

A lot of people will say tethered is slower, bit for me it's much faster, I find that with untethered I shoot more just to be sure, with tethered I'm much quicker and feel much better because I know I got it.

Long enough cables help a lot by the way

But as mention bij robc it's all a personal choice, whatever works as long as you get the shot, there is no good or wrong.
Frank,

I know you are first (by passion) a MF photographer, and therefore the tether plays an important role.

When I opened this thread, my idea was not to say that if you shoot tether you are wrong. My idea was to share this alternative of a non-tether task in a top fashion shooting, after all the threads that show-up recently about the hassles experienced by many users in the tether configuration. I wanted to say: "to me this alternative works bloody right". But as you point, there is no golden truth. Each photographer has his style and preferences.

As the retouchers are on the plateau anyway and the cards are inmediatly downloaded to the computers, if there is something to show to the model, a good lcd is enough, and in ultimate instance the computer.
That is what Leaf according to me understood and Phase never did. Because the Phase LCD is a (bad) joke!

But then you want to make sure the stylists are watching the model on the plateau and not the computer (and tomorrow the computer+the Ipad...!!!!), you want to make sure you are enough isolated
to work properlly, you want to make sure the connections are ok, you want to make sure the makeup artist is not distracted by the computer. In short, that everyone is where it should be.

Remember also that I was talking about a shooting with the Canon. MF is another story and the tether with MF gear is almost an obligation.
But then and again, I would feel certainly more comfortable with a Leaf back than a Phase, and not shoot tether and even taking into account this mistake margen you pointed.

Now about resolution, I must say that we have been asked (and more and more) by clients to decrease resolution. Yes you read well!
More and more, the session are aimed to an output that need less resolution for interactivities and all the circus.

There are some changes, and in those changes, the need to shoot MF each time appears less obliged.
...............
PS for this post: Please folks,  do not jump immediatly on that and interpretate that I'm against MF or that I predicted the death of MF or that I'm negative. I am just reporting an evolution in clients needs that is happening here.
There is no negativity about MF. and MF will always have their clients, users and niche output. So no dark thoughts and respect and peace for all.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 11:10:03 AM by fredjeang » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 12:17:43 PM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Remember also that I was talking about a shooting with the Canon. MF is another story and the tether with MF gear is almost an obligation.
But then and again, I would feel certainly more comfortable with a Leaf back than a Phase, and not shol.




As it stands now, if you use medium format and you want to see a detailed view,  you have to tether, so I believe the whole tethering thing never came from client requests, it came from the only way to see an image if you used a larger camera was to tether.

Now, it's somewhat the standard, though lately we've done less and less tethering just because we have to move so quickly due to budget, time restrictions and honestly clients are somewhat over the staring at every image as it pops up on screen.  

Tethering imo is so 2007.

Actually, when we started serious digital capture with the original 1ds we never tethered, we shot to cards downloaded as we went.  We did run a full tech station and the clients could review the images before we moved on to the next session and rarely, very very rarely did any AD ask for us to continue or go back and add something.

I really think this system worked best anyway, because they got to review the shoot as an overview seeing every image per session in a browser, rather than seeing them one at a time on a monitor.

It also kept more eyeballs on the set, rather than the screen and let's face it, staring at one flicking image after another becomes boring at best.

Model's and real subjects seemed to appreciate the non tethered session better as the interaction was between the photographer, the talent and the on set artists.

It was easy to show the hair stylist an image on the back of a camera and say we've got a issue here, or there, without altering the whole studio that anything negative was happening.

It is easy to walk over to the subject and give them a quick run through saying, this works well, this doesn't this is great etc., once again without dragging over a cart or taking the talent off set for them to review it.

It is also more person to walk over to the AD and flip through the images on the back of the camera.  They had suggestions, we'd implement them and work more as a one on one team than a committee.

Depending on what you shoot, how you shoot, I believe that a non tethering session goes faster and is more free and productive than tethering.

As I review my body of work, the best imagery commercial or personal always came from a non tethered shoot.  

« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 12:21:35 PM by bcooter » Logged
Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 03:04:54 PM »
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It's also very depending on your work.
I work with very precise lightsetups and checking that is vital for me.
Remember I only shoot mf a few years.
With the 10d I already tethered.

Downloading cards during the shoot also is great and I dothat also when I need to move a lot.

About resolution.
The more GOOD pixels the better in my opinion.
I believe we don't need more than 12-16 but more helps a lot with crops like a client that decides he likes that full body as a portrait pffff  and of course moire is less of a "problem"
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fredjeang
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 03:23:39 PM »
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Quote from: Frank Doorhof
It's also very depending on your work.
I work with very precise lightsetups and checking that is vital for me.
Remember I only shoot mf a few years.
With the 10d I already tethered.

Downloading cards during the shoot also is great and I dothat also when I need to move a lot.

About resolution.
The more GOOD pixels the better in my opinion.
I believe we don't need more than 12-16 but more helps a lot with crops like a client that decides he likes that full body as a portrait pffff  and of course moire is less of a "problem"
Agree. To me the ideal with MF back would be a 22MP, not more, for most applications.
But yes, there are many cases that suit for the muscled backs also...

But it's funny, the convergence is really happening, I mean that all static and motion and even 3D imagery are confunding and funding into a general common lenguage.

I think that in a close future we should invent a new terminology. Motion+stills+synthetic+interactive images=?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 03:56:58 PM by fredjeang » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 04:36:56 PM »
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Quote from: Frank Doorhof
It's also very depending on your work.
I work with very precise lightsetups and checking that is vital for me.



A lot of people do, that is why it's imperative to have a good camera lcd that's readable for those times the Photographer, A.D. and talent wants to work on the art not the committee explanations.

As a friend of mine says, good photography is not a democratic process.

So it's either a good lcd or plug it in.

I still believe tethering is so 2007, but maybe that's this just this side of the world.

BC

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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 04:49:30 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter


A lot of people do, that is why it's imperative to have a good camera lcd that's readable for those times the Photographer, A.D. and talent wants to work on the art not the committee explanations.

As a friend of mine says, good photography is not a democratic process.

So it's either a good lcd or plug it in.

I still believe tethering is so 2007, but maybe that's this just this side of the world.

BC

Hello,

Well on my side of the world if I showed up on location or in my studio and didn't tether my camera, I would have a very pissed off art director.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 04:50:23 PM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
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fredjeang
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 06:28:37 PM »
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B.C, It is not just this side of the world. Here as well tether is getting each time more out-fashionned.

The irony is that many of us pressure the MF manufacturers to take into account a great LCD, while at the same time, those manufacturers pressure us to buy more laptop and of course, that was writen before the Moises tablets, those new Apple tablets.
All that in the name of more is more.

So who is right? IMO, both are right. We are right to ask, claim a good lcd on the backs and they are right to propose more alternatives.
But the problem is: do they give us really the choice?
If we could decide between 2 good alternatives. And what is a pitty is that implementing a good lcd on a back is not spacial science that I know.

There must be a commercial reason, some obscur agreements with the calvados fruit.

Ps: bcooter, beautifull light, and the woman's dress is fascinating. Great picture! Glamour total.
Looks like Venecia somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 07:03:30 PM by fredjeang » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2010, 12:13:05 PM »
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Simon,

As you know there are no absolutes and everything is project, client specific and be clear I'm not against tethering, (well sometimes I am) but I've just seen a trend where we shoot to cards more, review the session as one, then move on.

I find it a lot faster, more intimate, more productive than 10 people trying to see every frame as it comes up on the computer.

Also a lot of talent doesn't really want every image thrown up 30" wide from start to finish.

fredjean, That was shot in China Town, NYC,  with modeling lights using an old Russian Tilt shift on a Contax and an Aptus 22, with modeling lights from the flash as tungsten.

I shot un tethered for set up, put a few cards in the computer to check the values, then shot to cards.

The great thing about the Aptus was the screen goes to black and white.

BC
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Rob C
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2010, 01:59:48 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
Simon,

As you know there are no absolutes and everything is project, client specific and be clear I'm not against tethering, (well sometimes I am) but I've just seen a trend where we shoot to cards more, review the session as one, then move on.

I find it a lot faster, more intimate, more productive than 10 people trying to see every frame as it comes up on the computer.

Also a lot of talent doesn't really want every image thrown up 30" wide from start to finish.

fredjean, That was shot in China Town, NYC,  with modeling lights using an old Russian Tilt shift on a Contax and an Aptus 22, with modeling lights from the flash as tungsten.

I shot un tethered for set up, put a few cards in the computer to check the values, then shot to cards.

The great thing about the Aptus was the screen goes to black and white.

BC


This is all very well, but I missed the photograph! Damn.

?

;-(

Rob C

EDIT: odd - now I have it. Very nice, too. Lovely ass, among other things.

EDIT 2: must remember the one about good photography and the democratic process!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 02:03:45 PM by Rob C » Logged

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