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Author Topic: (Epson 3880) Refill ink from Inkjet Mall or InkRepublic?  (Read 11229 times)
phildog33
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« on: July 26, 2010, 11:14:46 PM »
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Im looking to start using refillable ink in my Epson 3880.
I want to save on the cost of ink changes and print more with the printer, without thinking of the ink cost so much.

I found just two companies offering ink: Ink REpublic and Inkjet Mall

Has anyone used either of these? And what is the difference.
Ink Republic is a good deal cheaper, about $200 cheaper for the same amount of ink

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phildog33
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 11:54:27 PM »
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Does anyone have any opinions on the two brands?
p


Quote from: phildog33
Im looking to start using refillable ink in my Epson 3880.
I want to save on the cost of ink changes and print more with the printer, without thinking of the ink cost so much.

I found just two companies offering ink: Ink REpublic and Inkjet Mall

Has anyone used either of these? And what is the difference.
Ink Republic is a good deal cheaper, about $200 cheaper for the same amount of ink
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 03:27:19 AM »
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Quote from: phildog33
Does anyone have any opinions on the two brands?
p

no, but I also found out about them quite some time ago. Most people agree that the ink cost is not so relevant in the final selling price. Still shaving down a dollar here and there in the end also adds up.

From what I understand, they have two systems, the refillable ink cartridges seemed more convincing to me, but I would like to be able to fill original Epson ink into them, taken from the largest available Epson cartridges. Unfortunately, I am not handy enough and do not have time to work this out. Also, I couldn't find anyone sharing his experience. Maybe nobody admits doing so, for some obvious reasons. We would need the possibility of writing under false identities on this   .

nino
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 02:29:25 PM »
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Quote from: ninoloss
... Most people agree that the ink cost is not so relevant in the final selling price.

nino


"final selling price" of what?  The print?  If so, I agree.  It's not much of an issue.

If you're not selling prints, then the cost is an issue.  Third party inks generally cost much less than half of originals.  (And look identical, IMHO.)
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jdoyle1713
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 10:21:15 PM »
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Well Inkjet Mall Is Jon Cone and Heck he has done a great job with ink..

Some of the prints I Have seen with his inks are the best B&W that I Have ever seen
My Vote Inkjet Malls Ink..but heck I Really Cant vote I Am an Epson Reseller so I Need to tell you that your warrenty
wont be valid if you use them..

Cheers
Jim Doyle
Shades Of paper
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 11:25:54 PM »
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Quote from: jdoyle1713
Well Inkjet Mall Is Jon Cone and Heck he has done a great job with ink..

Some of the prints I Have seen with his inks are the best B&W that I Have ever seen
My Vote Inkjet Malls Ink..but heck I Really Cant vote I Am an Epson Reseller so I Need to tell you that your warrenty
wont be valid if you use them..

Cheers
Jim Doyle
Shades Of paper

Just out of curiosity, how would Epson be able to tell that you didn't use their ink?
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 06:40:25 AM »
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Quote from: ninoloss
Just out of curiosity, how would Epson be able to tell that you didn't use their ink?
Chemical analysis.  I doubt that the third party ink has the exact same components, and even if they do it's easy enough to add trace amounts of a taggant (inert ingredient) that Epson could use as a marker in their inks.  It's all easy enough for the manufacturer to do.  Pharmaceutical companies do this all the time with their products to be able to detect counterfeit products.

Alan
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 07:15:13 AM »
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Quote from: Alan Goldhammer
Chemical analysis.  I doubt that the third party ink has the exact same components, and even if they do it's easy enough to add trace amounts of a taggant (inert ingredient) that Epson could use as a marker in their inks.  It's all easy enough for the manufacturer to do.  Pharmaceutical companies do this all the time with their products to be able to detect counterfeit products.

Alan

I hear. I am aware of the existence of such practice, but I did not think that Epson is doing that. You actually know this as a fact?
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 08:02:31 AM »
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Quote from: ninoloss
I hear. I am aware of the existence of such practice, but I did not think that Epson is doing that. You actually know this as a fact?
No I don't, I recently retired from the pharmaceutical industry and am well aware of the practices there.  I can only suppose that Epson would look at the same approach.  I'm sure they don't want to pay for any warranty repairs if a third party ink caused a failure.  Also, the 3880 cartridges have computer chips in them.  How do third party inks get around that?
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KeithR
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2010, 08:39:58 AM »
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Quote from: Alan Goldhammer
Also, the 3880 cartridges have computer chips in them.  How do third party inks get around that?

By using a chip resetter on refillable carts(which have chips on them). This is very common, almost a standard. Takes about 15 seconds to do.

From Jon Cone's website on warranties:
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl;jsession...it=I&id=227
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 08:44:03 AM by KeithR » Logged

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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2010, 10:02:35 AM »
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IF you had a printer problem and IF it could be proved that it was directly caused by the use of third party inks, then the manufacturers would be justified in denying warantee repairs.  Otherwise, it's all just marketing bafflegab.

I have used third party inks in Epson printers for over a decade, with nothing but positive results.  I can't imagine how much money I've saved.  Again, this is all irrelevant if you're selling all the prints you make.  I don't.

My most positive experiences have been with MIS Associates at inksupply.com.  I believe that they have a CIS for the 3800.
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JonCone
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2010, 07:50:27 PM »
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Jim!

But, here in the USA we have the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act and the Sherman Anti-Trust Act which both state that a manufacturer can not deny warranty repair to equipment based upon choice of consumables - unless the manufacturer can prove that the repairs are necessary for something that their own consumables would not cause. It would have to be that the use of the ink broke something that the use of their ink would not. That limits it so severely that Epson does not deny warranty coverage in the USA to printers which have been used with 3rd party inks, because Epson inks themselves are known to cause certain common problems that all inks cause to tiny piezo inkjet heads. But, they do reserve the right to remove the carts, and charge the customer for a set of Epson carts in which to do their repair and final testing (which is reasonable).

In Japan, Epson CAN deny warranty coverage to consumers who use a 3rd party ink.  In EU they can not deny warranty. I am uncertain about other parts of the world.

In any event, Inkjetmall maintains insurance in the case that our ink products cause harm that Epson ink products do not. So we have the hole covered in any event.



Jon Cone
InkjetMall
http://www.inkjetmall.com


Quote from: jdoyle1713
Well Inkjet Mall Is Jon Cone and Heck he has done a great job with ink..

Some of the prints I Have seen with his inks are the best B&W that I Have ever seen
My Vote Inkjet Malls Ink..but heck I Really Cant vote I Am an Epson Reseller so I Need to tell you that your warrenty
wont be valid if you use them..

Cheers
Jim Doyle
Shades Of paper
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2010, 07:56:49 PM »
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How do your inks actually compare to the Epson inks? Especially in regard to their archival characteristics? Is there any independent data available?

Quote from: JonCone
Thanks for the vote of confidence Jim!

But, here in the USA we have the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act and the Sherman Anti-Trust Act which both state that a manufacturer can not deny warranty repair to equipment based upon choice of consumables - unless the manufacturer can prove that the repairs are necessary for something that their own consumables would not cause. It would have to be that the use of the ink broke something that the use of their ink would not. That limits it so severely that Epson does not deny warranty coverage in the USA to printers which have been used with 3rd party inks, because Epson inks themselves are known to cause certain common problems that all inks cause to tiny piezo inkjet heads. But, they do reserve the right to remove the carts, and charge the customer for a set of Epson carts in which to do their repair and final testing (which is reasonable).

In Japan, Epson CAN deny warranty coverage to consumers who use a 3rd party ink.  In EU they can not deny warranty. I am uncertain about other parts of the world.

In any event, Inkjetmall maintains insurance in the case that our ink products cause harm that Epson ink products do not. So we have the hole covered in any event.



Jon Cone
InkjetMall
http://www.inkjetmall.com
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JonCone
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2010, 07:57:23 PM »
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Quote from: Alan Goldhammer
Also, the 3880 cartridges have computer chips in them.  How do third party inks get around that?

The 3800, 3880, and the new X900 printers have very complicated chip readers. So these chips are very expensive to make. We do have some 7900 carts right now that are resettable, and we have some that reset themselves. Neither uses a resetter - but rather a sequence of events which causes the chips to reset. In the case of the 7900 carts that reset themselves, you push a button on the cart.

The 3800/3880 reset themselves but they require two piggy back custom chips which are used to cause the reset to all the others. We supply the carts with these custom chips.

For older printers such as the X880, x800 we supply resetters. For most our desktop printers - they now reset themselves...

Chip making is very sophisticated these days - but the Millenium Act prevents the making of a 100% compatible chip. So when these carts are inserted it triggers the Epson firmware to say that the carts are not 100% genuine...and that the use "may" void your warranty. If the carts were to destroy the chip reader, that would be a void of warranty. But the use of the inks will not void the warranty, nor will the use of the carts.

Jon Cone
InkjetMall


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Nino Loss
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2010, 08:20:50 PM »
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Quote from: ninoloss
How do your inks actually compare to the Epson inks? Especially in regard to their archival characteristics? Is there any independent data available?

Maybe you can point me to some data? Sorry, I could not find it on the inkjetmall website.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 08:21:14 PM by ninoloss » Logged
JonCone
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2010, 09:59:41 PM »
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Quote from: ninoloss
Maybe you can point me to some data? Sorry, I could not find it on the inkjetmall website.

Only data is available right now on the Piezography inks at Aardenburg, not yet for ConeColor.  Aardenburg is an independent testing house (that is actually independent of the OEMs). 3rd party inks may not be tested at Wilhelm. Aardenburg rather than being supported by Epson, Canon and HP is supported by users like you.  

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/acceleratedagingtests.html

It's only $25 a year to subscribe. Well worth it.


Jon
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2010, 02:00:17 AM »
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Quote from: JonCone
Only data is available right now on the Piezography inks at Aardenburg, not yet for ConeColor.  Aardenburg is an independent testing house (that is actually independent of the OEMs). 3rd party inks may not be tested at Wilhelm. Aardenburg rather than being supported by Epson, Canon and HP is supported by users like you.  

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/acceleratedagingtests.html

It's only $25 a year to subscribe. Well worth it.


Jon
Thanks. I am aware of Ardenburg and Piezography inks there. Only, I forgot to mention that I am interested in your ConeColor.
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mills
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« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2010, 03:26:53 AM »
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Quote from: phildog33
Im looking to start using refillable ink in my Epson 3880.
I want to save on the cost of ink changes and print more with the printer, without thinking of the ink cost so much.

I found just two companies offering ink: Ink REpublic and Inkjet Mall

Has anyone used either of these? And what is the difference.
Ink Republic is a good deal cheaper, about $200 cheaper for the same amount of ink

Both InkRepublic and Inkjet Mall are highly recommended by many prof. photographers, I would say you will not go wrong with any one of them.
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jdoyle1713
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2010, 09:02:01 AM »
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Jon

thanks for the info..Thats good stuff to know..

I read the post last night and this morning I looked at several prints In My Home
That where done with your inks.. all B&W and they are still as awesome today as The day I got them!

Thanks ( Tyler Boley & John Dean )

Cheers
Jim Doyle
Shades Of Paper
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