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Author Topic: New Mac Pros released  (Read 11250 times)
jonstewart
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2010, 05:48:21 AM »
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I agree with (particularly) Bernard and  Doug; I don't think we're seeing anywhere near the sort of innovation from Apple that there was a few years ago, in any of their products.

Granted I'm not firing huge workloads at my macpro (August 2006; version 1,1) that some of you are, but it's doing just fine. I'd happily admit that it's great engineering that's meant it still runs as good today as it did when I bought it. Doesn't really seem to have dated at all in terms of performance.

Is it the case that for most, even with pro photographers using big files, there's enough processing power available in the current lineup to fulfill needs, if not wants?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 05:48:58 AM by jonstewart » Logged

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dandeliondigital
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2010, 05:53:50 AM »
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Hi,
I have a 2 year old MacPro that really needs more RAM more than anything else. Do you think CS5 really would be all that big of an improvement. I must admit that Adobe’s software is the one quitting more and more often, but I think that’s because I need more RAM.

So long for now, TOM

Quote from: Dustbak
If you are on Mac you are really missing out on CS5 compared to CS4.. I find the upgrade kind of meager as well, especially considering the price hike. I do like to put a 5870 in my 2009 MacPro  (a flashed one that is  ).
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Dustbak
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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2010, 06:40:01 AM »
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Quote from: Frank Doorhof
Just surious I'm always using the MBP on location and in the studio for capture with LC and Capture One.
With the i7 and 7200rpm it's a lot faster than my duocore MBP last generation.
If I add the SSD can it be placed next to the drive, in other words I don't want to loose my internal drive.
There are some SSD's that can be placed in the expresscard slot but will those also speed everything up.

On the other hand, booting doesn't bother me and when I capture I will probably not store it on a SSD but on the 7200rpm anyway so will there be any advantage ?


There are Express Card SSD's however these are not as fast as the 2.5" SSD's though still at least twice as fast as your 7200RPM drive. There are also brackets that replace your DVD drive in which you can put a SSD.

The OWC SSD drives do 200MB/s write speeds & 300MB/s read speeds which is appr. 10x as fast as a regular harddrive. They are also allegedly much more reliable since they don't have moving parts. I would surely capture into a SSD instead of a regular drive when having a choice.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2010, 06:54:54 AM »
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Quote from: dandeliondigital
Hi,
I have a 2 year old MacPro that really needs more RAM more than anything else. Do you think CS5 really would be all that big of an improvement. I must admit that Adobe’s software is the one quitting more and more often, but I think that’s because I need more RAM.

So long for now, TOM


Yes CS5 is definitely a big improvement over CS4 on the Mac. CS5 is what CS4 should have been (64bit for Mac as well, Windows CS4 was already 64bit). CS5 can use more memory, use more cores more efficiently. Depending on the amount of memory in your machine naturally but my guess is that unless you are really underspecc'ed upgrading to CS5 is going to have more effect.

BTW. I still have 12GB for sale, for use in a MacPro which came out of my MacPro (1 year old). Have to look up whether that fits in your machine though.
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Arminw
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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2010, 07:15:02 AM »
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I just found this interesting review from a professional point of view. Sad but true...

http://brookwillard.wordpress.com/2010/07/...fessional-line/
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2010, 07:39:22 AM »
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Pricing for the 12 core is indeed steep.
Maybe build a pc that runs macos
Or just keep using the macpro we are using now.
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jonstewart
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« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2010, 08:14:59 AM »
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Quote from: Arminw
I just found this interesting review from a professional point of view. Sad but true...

http://brookwillard.wordpress.com/2010/07/...fessional-line/

That's a very good read. Thanks for sharing.

'Steve == Make more money' (...and to h3ll with anything else, like serving clientbase (pardon my french, as we say here))
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Roskav
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« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2010, 08:38:06 AM »
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Quote from: Arminw
I just found this interesting review from a professional point of view. Sad but true...

http://brookwillard.wordpress.com/2010/07/...fessional-line/


Nicely written blog.. thanks for sharing
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pcunite
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« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 09:15:10 AM »
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To everyone who appreciates Apple's hardware and software platform, make sure you give Windows 7 a try. Things have really turned for the better in Microsoft's domain. Just make sure you have quality and supported hardware and crashes will be a thing of the past. Also be sure you setup your system for LUA+SRP, this way viruses, trojans, and other malware will be a distant memory as well.
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 09:43:29 AM »
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Quote from: pcunite
To everyone who appreciates Apple's hardware and software platform, make sure you give Windows 7 a try. Things have really turned for the better in Microsoft's domain. Just make sure you have quality and supported hardware and crashes will be a thing of the past. Also be sure you setup your system for LUA+SRP, this way viruses, trojans, and other malware will be a distant memory as well.
I know windows 7. And trust me it's no SL
I work with both on a daily basis.
7 is much better than vista in most cases but there are so many differences it won't push me back to the pc for my own work.
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2010, 10:22:28 AM »
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Quote from: Arminw
I just found this interesting review from a professional point of view. Sad but true...
http://brookwillard.wordpress.com/2010/07/...fessional-line/
I have to pile on here. The critique linked above is very true and accurate from my pov.

Michael & I took a deep breath and upgraded to a refurb top-of-the-line 2.66 Quadcore MacPro about a month ago during the time I was trying to complete the Capture One Tutorial and knowing that Lightroom 3 was in the pipe - also knowing full well that a new MacPro was coming soon.

The price of the refurb was good with a substantial discount and the machine has already proven its worth as a second machine. BUT - all of its PCI slots are filled, I have had to replace the pathetic video card with something slightly less under-powered (the still-standard NVIDIA GeForce GT 120) in order to get smooth HD playback and I still need a second machine if I want to compress video and continue editing at the same time - and the new beast has 24 GB of RAM!

As the Brook Willard column points out, the new MacPro doesn't look any less in need of substantial add-ons.

Folk who need a pro Apple machine for professional apps are now in the hands of the after-market manufacturers - with no change from Apple in sight. Too bad.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2010, 12:35:17 PM »
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Honestly, the latest windows workstations like the high-end Dell are IMO to consider seriously.
I run both Mac and Windows, no doubt that until recently Mac was THE system to have. But they are getting worse step by step and curiously Windows is getting better.
Maybe in a close future, Windows will be what Mac was and vice-versa. So keeping an eye on windows product is not a wired fantasy.
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bcooter
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« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2010, 01:16:04 PM »
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Quote from: Chris Sanderson
I have to pile on here. The critique linked above is very true and accurate from my pov.


I'm not defending Apple, God knows they can throw us all into a world of hurt from time to time, but in reality, I really do wonder how much profit is in a Macpro?

I go a lot of places and rarely, very very rarely do I walk into a studio, retoucher, pre press house (the few that are left), digital lab, editorial house, colorist that is running the latest and greatest MacPro.

In fact you'd be amazed at the number of G5's cranking along on their last breaths, being worked by very accomplished artists.

I have a tricked out tower, previous this latest generation, but it doesn't get even 50% of my use.  Heck I now just buy new I-macs, run them till they're ugly and give em away like old lawn furniture, because honestly they're not worth much more and I don't get rid of them until they've just given up all usefulness.

Heck I run one of our servers off of a G4 dual processor because all it does is stay online and catalog drives.

Once again I'm not defending Apple, but I know in my business, I'm not going to spend a great deal of time and R+D on anything that doesn't result in better work and profits.

Also I loathe changing machines.  It's never a simple clone and go procedure, half the software has to be dumped, relocated, updated, installed and then they're are issues.

I've come to the realization that it's not just money, it's time.  I have one machine I cut 95% of our video on.  It's slower than some of the other machines, but stable as a Rock and everything works from ftp uploads to burning dvds.

I'd like to dump it, but it works and nothing is worse than spending a whole bunch of money and then losing a week getting something up to speed.

As far as the PC thing, I've gone that route when Apple's USB was a slow as the DMV line, but in reality Vista and 7 weren't bad but just not that intuitive for a Mac User.  You have to watch out for Viruses, load goofy software to read a Mac formatted drive and no offense to the PC world but man they can make some damn ugly machines.  

The upside is their fast.  The downside is I really don't care about another learning curve just for the sake of cutting my rendering time by 20%, relearning NLE software like AVID or Premier and buying all new PC based software just to speed my workflow by some percentage, even if that percentage is substantial.

Computers are enow like cameras.  People with time on their hands and tech heads love to buy gear, but if you really knew how many of the photos the world admires were shot with 2nd or 3rd generation cameras, processed on 4th generation machines I think you'd be surprised.

We're kind of over it and unless somebody comes out with something you can't live without there is better places to put your time and money.

IMO.

BC
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2010, 01:55:13 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
I really do wonder how much profit is in a Macpro?

Your question suggests the answer: Time=Money. If machines can accomplish the same thing in half or better the time....
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 01:55:36 PM by Chris Sanderson » Logged

Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2010, 02:32:00 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
kroowww... and no offense to the PC world but man they can make some damn ugly machines.... krowwnn
 it is damn true!
That is what Apple always understood and windows never: the cool factor as you say in english.

But I completly agree with you about time-money equation, as Chris Sanderson also pointed.

But Chris makes another calculation: if time is money, and the latest machines do the same thing faster, we should then save money upgrading.
Yes and no IMO. It really has to be groundbreaking to see such a difference. Bc explains that many upgrades bring a lot of hassles and when you are in the middle of
heavy work, the last thing you want is a problem. I agree indeed with that statement.

Digital is wonderfull but it is like we need to control ourselves to not fall into the latest upgrades spirals.(and the sellers sirens calls)
This can be a frenetic consuming and the gain in time and money is never guarantee. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 02:40:04 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2010, 03:29:27 PM »
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I should perhaps add that the older macpro is close to 4 years old... so for multiprocessing stuff like rendering video in AE or video compression, the difference is marked. But as pointed out by bcooter - it remains a good stable workhorse for everyday editing.
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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2010, 04:39:29 PM »
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Quote from: Chris Sanderson
I should perhaps add that the older macpro is close to 4 years old... so for multiprocessing stuff like rendering video in AE or video compression, the difference is marked. But as pointed out by bcooter - it remains a good stable workhorse for everyday editing.
But here we are Chris. This industry is going really fast. So now a new compression, a more powerfull format or whatever novelty oblige us to upgrade, and IMO you pointed more or less 4 years seems to be the max a device is usable before being obsolete.
That's the way it is yes, but I'm asking myself until wich point that politic is sustainable? and until wich point people are willing to accept the learning curve, from 4 to 3 years? From 3 to 2?
Are we going to arrive to the point that you buy something that will be completly obsolete 6 months later?
I'm concern about that speed really, and I think behind the scene it is more than just this industry but a way of (un)life issue.

It is like the new tech that was supose to help us is putting ourselves in a slavery state more than ever.

Honestly, since digital, do we spend more time with our wife and friends? And how much less (Huh) time do we really save in reaching the final result?

That would be good if we could answer to this question honestly.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 05:26:29 PM by fredjeang » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2010, 05:04:50 PM »
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Quote from: Arminw
I just found this interesting review from a professional point of view. Sad but true...

http://brookwillard.wordpress.com/2010/07/...fessional-line/

Very true indeed.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2010, 06:22:08 PM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Very true indeed.

Cheers,
Bernard

Fascinating article.
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« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2010, 03:11:57 PM »
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Digi Lloyd feels the same about the new Mac Pro, that he calls "semi-pro":

http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-MacProWestmere.html

Cheers,
Bernard
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