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Author Topic: Any worthwhile MF innovation to be expected at Kina?  (Read 16847 times)
bdp
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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2010, 03:33:24 PM »
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There is a 48 megapixel Dalsa sensor that no one uses: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=30447.msg245384#msg245384

I don't know if it's possible to fit the mechanics for a multishot back AND a screen, battery and CF card all inside the back housing. I can't imagine any new back will have it all - something won't be there. Doesn't the Hassy 50mpx have no internal battery?

Ben
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Dustbak
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2010, 03:44:20 PM »
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I have a 39MP multishot back that has it all. The battery is underneath the back though but you normally would not be using that in multishot mode. Both the battery as well as the screen would primarily be used in single shot untethered mode.

A while ago that 48MP Dalsa sensor. I recall it having microlenses? My strongest guess would be the 50MP Kodak if this rumor is true but it would be nice if Sinar came with a pleasant surprise.

The Hblad50 gets its juice from the battery grip (or from another external device when used on something else than its dedicated H body).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 03:47:16 PM by Dustbak » Logged
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2010, 07:09:44 PM »
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A new high-end Sinar digital back will take the place of the actual eVolution 75H multishoot. With more pixels. But with or without screen ? And working with an iPad who can give an high-end live video ?

PdF

Add me to the list of people very curious about this rumour!
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
bcooter
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2010, 01:01:20 PM »
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I don't know what will happen in medium format land at photokina but I would suggest whatever is announced to have it ready to buy the day the pdf hits the airwaves.

I know in the world of marketing it's tempting to say something is coming to hold buyers attention or to keep them from moving to another brand, but from a professional standpoint, unless you can buy it, rent it, use it that day, it really doesn't exist.

As far as MY wish list, well top of the list would be a good Nikon style LCD, but I don't hold much hope for that, though I'd forego the lcd wish if the makers would just make all of their backs easily interchangeable with all medium format cameras.

I really believe the limiting of the medium format market happened the day that each maker decided to make specific mounts for specific cameras.  (I know hasselblad and Sinar offered something interchangeable, but they both required screwing and unscrewing stuff, and the backs seemed to come at a premium).

I'm talking about just click it on and shoot.   I know if my two back would fit on any body I'd have an H-1/2 sitting in our studios to compliment the Contax's I use.

I'm really not a fan of proprietary film digital or analog and I believe one of the limiting factors of medium format (beyond price) is the fact your stuck into one system at the time of purchase, (without buying the value added, floor mats not included warranty) and even with the switch em for free warranty your still not going to be able to snap that blad back on a contax, or the phase/Mamiya./Leaf back onto a Rollei.

I also suggest a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty and ending the $2,500 watch battery repair thing. 

IMO

BC
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archivue
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2010, 03:51:17 PM »
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desire, only desire...

live view and good screen
bubble level on the back
more latitude

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PdF
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2010, 09:29:05 AM »
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This was NOT my source, and this is a confirmation.

PdF
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PdF
BJNY
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2010, 11:16:28 AM »
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This was NOT my source, and this is a confirmation.

PdF

No offense intended.

I asked because both you and photorumors wrote "multishoot" at the same time

instead of the more common "multi-shot".
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 12:54:16 PM by BJNY » Logged

Guillermo
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« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2010, 04:08:03 PM »
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Here is the new Sinar electronic shutter

PdF
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BrendanStewart
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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2010, 09:33:02 PM »
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Please educate someone not familiar with view cameras, why is 1/250th a cutting edge huge deal? In other formats that sounds rather slow. I'd love to understand why.
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JonathanBenoit
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« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2010, 09:40:25 PM »
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Please educate someone not familiar with view cameras, why is 1/250th a cutting edge huge deal? In other formats that sounds rather slow. I'd love to understand why.

I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation why only 1/250 .. but Copal 0 shutters are 1/500th , so youd think they'd be able to at least match those.
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PdF
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« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2010, 02:17:18 AM »
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The stability of the assembly with an electronic shutter is sharply better than any one with classic central shutter. The fact of having to rearm mechanically gives a real risk of moved. It is from then on impossible to practise the multishot, or to realize multiple digital images for assemblies under Photoshop.

I work for years with an electronic shutter Sinarcam 2, for my biggest happiness. My objectives equipped with mechanical shutter take out their cupboard only for ballads to the open air!

PdF
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Ed Jack
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« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2010, 03:36:35 AM »
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There is a 48 megapixel Dalsa sensor that no one uses: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=30447.msg245384#msg245384

I don't know if it's possible to fit the mechanics for a multishot back AND a screen, battery and CF card all inside the back housing. I can't imagine any new back will have it all - something won't be there. Doesn't the Hassy 50mpx have no internal battery?

Ben

you mean this one a 48Mp back from sinar using the new (old sensor):

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=46214.0

http://www.sinar.ch/en/products/digital-backs/241-sinarback-evolution-86-h


Is this the only use of this chip in a Db and if so why ? Exclusivity deal ? The tech sheet says its only 14 bits per channel, but a signal:noise of 74 Db is I believe up there with the P65+ sensor if not better and hence a little bit ahead of the others in terms of dynamic range, maybe to do with these "special micro lenses", not sure why they are special. Anyway, I guess this back is the only one with this chip, which i am guessing has a 1.1X crop factor, so in fact at the moment there is no stand-alone version, just this tethered studio version ?
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BJL
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« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2010, 10:43:53 AM »
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{A} Is this the only use of this chip in a Db and if so why ? Exclusivity deal?
{B} The tech sheet says its only 14 bits per channel, but a signal:noise of 74 Db is I believe up there with the P65+ sensor if not better and hence a little bit ahead of the others in terms of dynamic range
{C} maybe to do with these "special micro lenses", not sure why they are special.
{A} Dalsa has taken two years to find a customer, so I doubt it is an exclusivity deal!

{B} As you say, the DR is good, which should illustrate the fallacy of "16 bits is better than 14". 14 bits, or even 13, is more than enough to handle the DR of any MF sensor seen so far, so the difference between 14 and 16 is at best just a decision to pad the data out to fill two full bytes, and at worst a marketing ploy.

{C} What is special about these micro-lenses is that they are placed closer to the photosites than previous ones, and so avoid a problem of all previous micro-lenses: not capturing light that strikes the sensor at highly off-perpendicular angles (over about 20-25º), so that they would lose a significant amount the light from some MF lenses near the corners of the full 645 format frame. For that reason, micro-lenses had only previously been used on smaller 44x33mm sensors, which do not gather any light from near the corners of the 645 frame anyway! The new design allows using micro-lenses on a larger (48x36mm) sensor than before. That increases sensitivity (higher usable ISO), but not DR. The DR improvement is due to having larger well capacity that Kodak sensors of the same pixel pitch and maybr lower read noise two.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 10:45:58 AM by BJL » Logged
Ed Jack
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« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2010, 11:58:59 AM »
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{B} As you say, the DR is good, which should illustrate the fallacy of "16 bits is better than 14". 14 bits, or even 13, is more than enough to handle the DR of any MF sensor seen so far, so the difference between 14 and 16 is at best just a decision to pad the data out to fill two full bytes, and at worst a marketing ploy.

Sorry everyone, I misread the data sheet, it is a 16bits/ch back like most others.

I asked sinar if an eMotion 86L will appear soon alongside this evolution 86H, but they they couldn't confirm it, they wouldn't deny it either. I like the fact sinar backs have some built in memory and have heard teh iso 800 is pretty good. Despite the microlenses, the "new" chip doesn't do iso 1600 like the P30+ does for example... strange.

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BJL
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« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2010, 03:51:16 PM »
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... have heard the iso 800 is pretty good. Despite the microlenses, the "new" chip doesn't do iso 1600 like the P30+ does for example... strange.
The maximum ISO is partly a back maker's decision about which amplification options to include. I have never seen a maximum ISO in any MF sensor spec sheets, and I suppose that all MF backs could offer an ISO 12,800 setting (with huge gobs of noise) if there were a market for it. Since this back is aimed at studio work and multi-shot, and thus stationary subjects, offering one extra, noisy, high ISO level seems a low priority.
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edwinb
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« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2010, 04:40:23 PM »
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The maximum ISO is partly a back maker's decision about which amplification options to include. I have never seen a maximum ISO in any MF sensor spec sheets, and I suppose that all MF backs could offer an ISO 12,800 setting (with huge gobs of noise) if there were a market for it. Since this back is aimed at studio work and multi-shot, and thus stationary subjects, offering one extra, noisy, high ISO level seems a low priority.

.............and you can get a very similar result pushing the curve in the captureshop software anyway
Edwin
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Edwin Blenkinsopp
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PdF
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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2010, 04:51:46 PM »
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I completely agree. Personally, I would have even appreciated a lower sensibility of 25 ISO.

PdF
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PdF
JonathanBenoit
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« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2010, 05:26:28 PM »
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I completely agree. Personally, I would have even appreciated a lower sensibility of 25 ISO.

PdF

you mean Sensitivity
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PdF
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« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2010, 02:36:26 AM »
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you mean Sensitivity

Oups !

"Sensibilité" in French indicates at once sensitivity and sensibility. Typical false cognates!

Please excuse this error of translation.

PdF

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PdF
archivue
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« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2010, 07:05:28 AM »
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I completely agree. Personally, I would have even appreciated a lower sensibility of 25 ISO.

PdF

i'm quite happy with the 25 iso from my Aptus 22... in architecture, when i'm not allowed to show people faces (school...) it becomes handy !
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