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Author Topic: Protective spray on baryta papers  (Read 6544 times)
Rusty
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« on: August 16, 2010, 10:35:56 PM »
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I'm doing some printing for the first time on Exhibition Fiber. Very pleased. I would like to know if it is advisable to protective spray baryta papers. The prints are to be matted and framed under glass. I've been using Hahnemuhle Protective Spray on matte papers with good results.
For those that sell prints and ship to customers do you protective spray baryta papers?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 07:51:16 AM »
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No. I do usually protect them by putting them in a plastic sleeve.
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jgbowerman
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 08:33:04 AM »
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No. I do usually protect them by putting them in a plastic sleeve.

Ditto
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mikeseb
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 08:54:33 AM »
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I spray with Premier Art Print Shield, after letting the print "dry" (ie, out-gas) for at least two days.

Then I sleeve for delivery.
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michael sebastian
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LucDelorme
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 11:41:54 AM »
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I'm doing some printing for the first time on Exhibition Fiber. Very pleased. I would like to know if it is advisable to protective spray baryta papers. The prints are to be matted and framed under glass. I've been using Hahnemuhle Protective Spray on matte papers with good results.
For those that sell prints and ship to customers do you protective spray baryta papers?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions


As far as I know, Exhibition Fiber is not a baryta paper.

Luc
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2010, 11:51:06 AM »
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To those using the plastic bags, I assume your talking about products like the "Crystal Clear" bags sold at places like clearbags.com and Frame Destination? Are you using these just for flat shipping/transport? I can the utility in that, but what about for shipping rolled prints in mailing tubes? I would have thought there might be risk of the plastic sleeve causing creases or kinks in the print, is that not an issue?
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MHMG
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 12:01:59 PM »
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First the disadvantages:  It goes without saying that spraying a print with a product like Premier Print Shield or HN Protective Spray (rumored to actually be  the same product, but I can't confirm) is a nuisance, requires practice to get good at it and not have many rejects, and probably costs as much or more to apply in adequate thickness to the print surface as the ink used to make the print.

Now for the good news: With practice one can spray Premier Print Shield onto a gloss or luster type photo inkjet print and achieve an excellent conformal coating that doesn't radically alter the print surface texture but does enhance the gloss (well, maybe some folks won't like that, but then again some will), slightly boosts the color vibrance and dmax, essentially eliminates differential gloss and bronzing, and increases scratch and abrasion resistance. In my light fade testing, the Print shield also appears to significantly improve light fade resistance, not so much by absorbing UV energy (it's too thin a coating to do that ) but by retarding the photo oxidation rate. In other words, it is sealing the colorants into the microporous layer in a way that impedes air and moisture penetration (not completely but at least enough to improve fade resistance which for most pigment inks the fading tends to be a photo-oxidation type of chemical reaction).

One tip if you decide to try it on a "baryta type" inkjet paper. Learn to spray it heavy enough in each coating pass so that it achieves an obvious initial "wet look" but not so high that it runs and sags. This is a delicate balance that takes a little practice with a product like Print Shield because it is a very low viscosity "varnish" with low resin content and lots of solvent. However, it is this low viscosity property that allows one to achieve a thin conformal coating without the heavy "vinyl placemat" kind of laminated appearance that thicker resins would cause. I make each pass a dual pass. i.e. spray quickly left to right, then return over the same path right-to-left before moving downward a couple of inches and repeating. I generally make two full coats with about 10 minutes drying in between.

regards,

Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

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Nino Loss
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 04:50:00 PM »
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[...]One tip if you decide to try it on a "baryta type" inkjet paper. Learn to spray it heavy enough in each coating pass so that it achieves an obvious initial "wet look" but not so high that it runs and sags. This is a delicate balance that takes a little practice with a product like Print Shield because it is a very low viscosity "varnish" with low resin content and lots of solvent. However, it is this low viscosity property that allows one to achieve a thin conformal coating without the heavy "vinyl placemat" kind of laminated appearance that thicker resins would cause. I make each pass a dual pass. i.e. spray quickly left to right, then return over the same path right-to-left before moving downward a couple of inches and repeating. I generally make two full coats with about 10 minutes drying in between.
[...]

and this would still not have enough thickness to it for a significant UV blocking effect?

Sometimes I use Winsor & Newtons classic spray and other cheaper products without any UV blockers and get all the aforementioned positive changes in contrast, vibrance,  blacks as well as scratch resistance. Is there a reason to use those specialized products with premium price? Till now I can't see any difference what so ever.

More often I use a UV blocking varnish/coating, MSA by Golden. Not as a spray, but in liquid form applied with a roller. With minimal practice it is possible to do thick and perfectly even coatings. In my opinion, they have the advantage of "encapsulating" the ink and maybe, of providing a thick enough layer of UV blocking by the same token.

cheers

nino
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jgbowerman
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 04:59:57 PM »
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To those using the plastic bags, I assume your talking about products like the "Crystal Clear" bags sold at places like clearbags.com and Frame Destination? Are you using these just for flat shipping/transport? I can the utility in that, but what about for shipping rolled prints in mailing tubes? I would have thought there might be risk of the plastic sleeve causing creases or kinks in the print, is that not an issue?

Yes, Jeff, I am referring to Crystal Clear bags. I use them to display unprotected prints (no glass) and for shipping. I ship prints (matted and without matting) flat in Crystal Clear bags. Unrolling a fine art print is fraught with hazards in the hands of those without experience (as will be the case with many if not most buyers). I don't want to risk creases or kinks, and shipping flat between stiff cardboard may be more time consuming and expensive, but certainly more archival, IMO.
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2010, 05:13:18 PM »
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To those using the plastic bags, I assume your talking about products like the "Crystal Clear" bags sold at places like clearbags.com and Frame Destination? Are you using these just for flat shipping/transport?

I use them to hand the prints over to the clients, with or without over mat, but mostly with at least a backing, as even the most robust fine art papers are to soft, and could easily be damaged.
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I can the utility in that, but what about for shipping rolled prints in mailing tubes?

Mailing tubes and thick, maybe even heavily varnished, fine art paper does not work together for me. How would you do that without ruining the paper while rolling it up?

Quote
I would have thought there might be risk of the plastic sleeve causing creases or kinks in the print, is that not an issue?

I never had an issue like that.

cheers

nino
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MHMG
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2010, 06:55:57 PM »
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and this would still not have enough thickness to it for a significant UV blocking effect?

Correct. UVc and UVb energy maybe, but ordinary window Glass filters most of that out, too, so not a big contributor to indoor fading. UVA (340-390 nanometer wavelength) will slip through for the most part. If it didn't, a paper like Epson Exhibition Fiber would totally turn from cool-white to warm-white appearance with the addition of the spray. It changes a little but not much.

Sometimes I use Winsor & Newtons classic spray and other cheaper products without any UV blockers and get all the aforementioned positive changes in contrast, vibrance,  blacks as well as scratch resistance. Is there a reason to use those specialized products with premium price? Till now I can't see any difference what so ever.


I have no experience with the products you mention, but my sense is that any more expensive "varnish" that claims to have UV blockers but goes on as thin as Print shield isn't really going to be very effective as a UV shield. Besides that, fading occurs with visible, especially blue, wavelength radiation. Although not quite as potent photon for photon as UVA radiation, there's more of it in typical light sources (including daylight) and thus enough to fade the print even if all UV energy is excluded.

More often I use a UV blocking varnish/coating, MSA by Golden. Not as a spray, but in liquid form applied with a roller. With minimal practice it is possible to do thick and perfectly even coatings. In my opinion, they have the advantage of "encapsulating" the ink and maybe, of providing a thick enough layer of UV blocking by the same token.

Yes,  a thicker coating increases protection (sometimes at the expense of print aethetics and sometimes not) but it's easy enough to verify the effectiveness of said coating as a UVa energy blocker. Just coat a portion of a high-OBA content paper like EEF and look at the uncoated versus coated portions with a Blacklight. If the coating is effectively blocking the UVA energy, both portions will look similar (ie.,no "glow" of fluorescence) under Blacklight.


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MHMG
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2010, 07:07:30 PM »
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Mailing tubes and thick, maybe even heavily varnished, fine art paper does not work together for me. How would you do that without ruining the paper while rolling it up?

The trick with mailing tubes and fine art prints is to pick a tube that has a sufficient diameter (more than the lousy 2 and 3 inch cores used to supply the paper which is the source of all the curling issues with paper supplied in roll format), and to roll the print with appropriate interleaf onto the outer surface of the tube, then put that assembly (plus a little extra bubble wrap) into a regular rectangular shipping box with dimensions just slightly larger than the tube. I use 1/16th inch polyethylene foam as the interleaf (very cheap, good chemical inertness, and excellent anti-abrasion resistance with delicate print surfaces) and I typically purchase 6 inch diameter tubes. This packaging method may not be the cheapest, but it is very effective with large prints, and while I have no first-hand knowledge of packaging heavily varnished prints, my guess is that the gentle pressure on the print from a 6-inch or greater tube diameter will easily accommodate a thick varnish.
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Rob Reiter
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 11:01:56 PM »
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I use glassine interleaving between prints-matte or photo black papers- when I roll roll them for shipping. Never had a problem. Light tissue paper is another alternative.


I use them to hand the prints over to the clients, with or without over mat, but mostly with at least a backing, as even the most robust fine art papers are to soft, and could easily be damaged.
Mailing tubes and thick, maybe even heavily varnished, fine art paper does not work together for me. How would you do that without ruining the paper while rolling it up?

I never had an issue like that.

cheers

nino
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 05:13:30 AM »
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I use glassine interleaving between prints-matte or photo black papers- when I roll roll them for shipping. Never had a problem. Light tissue paper is another alternative.



Rob,

did you actually have a look on the prints once they where unpacked? I worry about the curling. After a week or so rolled up in the tube, for international shipping up to four weeks, does the paper not curl terribly? I assume most of my customers would not want to, and would not know how to go about that. I wouldn't feel good about letting them uncurl the prints, last but not least because of my rather high prices for a quality product.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 06:09:06 AM »
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Tell the customer to decurl the print(s) on the same 4-6"roll for 24 hours. Make it easier for yourself and the customer by adding a long tail sheet to the core roll like used on all decurlers (that have a thinner core though). Cross cut view = Q but with a much longer tail.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2010, 07:20:43 AM »
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Tell the customer to decurl the print(s) on the same 4-6"roll for 24 hours. Make it easier for yourself and the customer by adding a long tail sheet to the core roll like used on all decurlers (that have a thinner core though). Cross cut view = Q but with a much longer tail.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

That's a good practice, though I would not see it fit if you ask for premium prices, to ask the client to do that? What do you think?
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jgbowerman
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2010, 07:56:12 AM »
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That's a good practice, though I would not see it fit if you ask for premium prices, to ask the client to do that? What do you think?

It is all too easy to crease a print when roll, unrolling, or d-rolling, at least it is in my hands. I'm good now, but there was a learning curve. I'm not going to put my customers to the task, I'm shipping prints flat.
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2010, 07:58:54 AM »
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It is all too easy to crease a print when roll, unrolling, or d-rolling, at least it is in my hands. I'm good now, but there was a learning curve. I'm not going to put my customers to the task, I'm shipping prints flat.

Well that's exactly what I meant.

Ernst, aren't you afraid of that? What is your view on this?

regards
nino
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2010, 08:05:34 AM »
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Rob,

did you actually have a look on the prints once they where unpacked? I worry about the curling. After a week or so rolled up in the tube, for international shipping up to four weeks, does the paper not curl terribly? I assume most of my customers would not want to, and would not know how to go about that. I wouldn't feel good about letting them uncurl the prints, last but not least because of my rather high prices for a quality product.
I have shipped over 100 13x19 prints over the past year (don't get excited; these were free prints to friends and work colleagues).  I use 4 inch diameter mailing tubes and an archival cover sheet on the surface prior to rolling them up.  I also provide brief instructions on how the prints should be framed and how to decurl them (basically the same thing that Ernst has noted in his reply).  I've also rolled some sample prints and checked for surface scratches etc. and found that if one is careful there are no problems with this method of shipping (this has been confirmed by reports back from friends who have indicated no problems and the framers that they have used are grateful for the instructions as well).  
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2010, 08:11:09 AM »
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I have shipped over 100 13x19 prints over the past year (don't get excited; these were free prints to friends and work colleagues).  I use 4 inch diameter mailing tubes and an archival cover sheet on the surface prior to rolling them up.  I also provide brief instructions on how the prints should be framed and how to decurl them (basically the same thing that Ernst has noted in his reply).  I've also rolled some sample prints and checked for surface scratches etc. and found that if one is careful there are no problems with this method of shipping (this has been confirmed by reports back from friends who have indicated no problems and the framers that they have used are grateful for the instructions as well).  

Yes, but they where your friends and colleagues. I understand it's feasible, especially if you give them good instruction as you and Ernst do. But what about paying customers, I mean high price customers(, maybe even very high  Wink).
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