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Author Topic: ipf6300 vs ipf6100 gamut  (Read 7548 times)
welder
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« on: August 18, 2010, 01:32:15 PM »
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So I've been researching picking up a Canon ipf6100 printer, prices on these are pretty good these days and for the most part users seem to have positive experiences.  From all reports the 6100 is a fine printer so I'm thinking that saving some cash compred to the newer 6300 model sounds like a good idea. But one thing I can't quite pin down though is how significant the difference is in gamut vs the ipf6300. Canon's literature states the new inks in the 6300 provide a 20% increase in gamut, which sounds like a big difference in theory, but I'm wondering how much of a difference that makes in reality? I'd be interested to know if anyone has any experience comparing the two. Any thoughts or comments welcome Smiley
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 08:25:55 PM »
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So I've been researching picking up a Canon ipf6100 printer, prices on these are pretty good these days and for the most part users seem to have positive experiences.  From all reports the 6100 is a fine printer so I'm thinking that saving some cash compred to the newer 6300 model sounds like a good idea. But one thing I can't quite pin down though is how significant the difference is in gamut vs the ipf6300. Canon's literature states the new inks in the 6300 provide a 20% increase in gamut, which sounds like a big difference in theory, but I'm wondering how much of a difference that makes in reality? I'd be interested to know if anyone has any experience comparing the two. Any thoughts or comments welcome Smiley
While the gamut has improved, the real improvement to me in the new Canon's isn't about increased gamut, but better screening, smoother transitions, and cleaner blacks with less gloss differential on some of the new high end PK baryta papers. there are many other incremental improvements including setting up paper types (big improvement) etc.
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Geoff Wittig
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 09:37:24 PM »
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Also noticeably faster printing, and much more scratch-resistant prints. Don't underestimate this last item; after gnashing my teeth in frustation over the incredibly fragile surface of prints from the HP Z3100, the iPF6300 is a joy. You don't want to step on them, but the prints are a lot more durable.

Unless you get the 6100 for a song, in a few years the price difference will probably seem less important than the improvement from one generation to the next.
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Scott Shelerud
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 12:23:01 AM »
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I started looking at the 6100, thinking it would be a nice upgrade from my 5100. My canvas prints have been rather popular and it would be nice to be able to gallery wrap some larger sizes.  an added benefit would be that the two printers use the same cartridges.

Wellllllll,  after doing the research on the variety of upgrades, gamut improvements, etc, I decided that maybe the 6300 would be better. After all, it wasn't all that much more, etc, etc, etc.  Well, hey! While I'm at it - why don't I just go for the 8300 and get it over with!  LOL

Long story short - there is now an 8300 in my office and here's why:

IIRC The pricing at IT Supplies worked out to be ( net prices after rebates ) around $1500 for the 6100, $1800 for the 6300 and $2800 for the 8300.  When you factor in the additional ink that comes with the 8300 - 330ml cartridges vs 130ml.  200ml difference x 12 cartridges = 2400ml.  At a nominal price of .50 per ml, that's $1200 of ink.  Shipping is free regardless of model.  The 8300 is, therefore, actually cheaper than the 6300 and only a few bucks more than the 6100........Go Figure?!!!!
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Scott Shelerud

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welder
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2010, 01:17:05 AM »
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When you factor in the additional ink that comes with the 8300 - 330ml cartridges vs 130ml.  200ml difference x 12 cartridges = 2400ml.  At a nominal price of .50 per ml, that's $1200 of ink.  Shipping is free regardless of model.  The 8300 is, therefore, actually cheaper than the 6300 and only a few bucks more than the 6100........Go Figure?!!!!

Now there's a way I hadn't looked at the math Smiley Question about the ink, though...once installed, what's the longevity of the ink cartridges? I think I saw a figure that said shelf life of installed inks is 6 months. I don't think there's any way my volume of printing would be high enough to consume that much ink in in 6 months.
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jgbowerman
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 10:44:20 AM »
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Now there's a way I hadn't looked at the math Smiley Question about the ink, though...once installed, what's the longevity of the ink cartridges? I think I saw a figure that said shelf life of installed inks is 6 months. I don't think there's any way my volume of printing would be high enough to consume that much ink in in 6 months.

I acquired the 6100 less than a year ago recognizing it would be old news before long as Canon was due for an upgrade, but chomping at the bit, I went forward anyway. Then comes the 6300 6 months later. Only 6 weeks ago, I allow myself to entertain the question of an upgrade, give Jim a call at ColorHQ, and he explains how it would make more sense to upgrade to the 8300! I'm thinking: "No way". Sure enough though, I did the math, and it does make sense. Not only is the 1000 dollar rebate big, the "trade in" is another 1000 dollars knocked off the upfront price (both bigger numbers than upgrading to the 6300)! AND, you get something like 1800 dollars worth of "free ink" going to the 8300 as compared to the 6300. AND, you can print 44". AND, I can keep the 6100 even though it is a "trade in" and sell it on Craig's list.

After thinking this over, my only task was to talk the wife into allowing for a 350 pound, 75-inch wide, beast of a printer into my daughters bedroom (had to run an ethernet wire under the house from my studio across the hallway).

My only concern was: "Will I use the ink before it goes bad?" Jim tells me these inks are easily good four or five years, not to worry about the expiration date. He adds, the primary concern is printhead clogs building over time due to my living in a dry mountain climate. So, I purchased a humidifier for my daughter's room (she lives away from home these days, otherwise I'd have had another obstacle to this upgrade) maintaining relative humidity between 40 and 60% negating significant printhead clogging... that and using the printer at least once a week if possible, although not critical.

I'm also storing my paper and matte board in this same room where the humidity level is better for media storage, too.

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Gemmtech
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2010, 02:07:12 PM »
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This is really crazy, I went to Atlex (same company as IT Supplies) and they offer the printers with FREE shipping and so the math works as follows:

Canon 6300 $2499.00 - $700.00 Rebate = $1799.00
Canon 8300 $3769.00 - $1000.00 Rebate = $2769.00

The ink cartridges are 90ml on the 6300 but 330 included with the 8300 which is a difference of 72%.  The 330ml ink cartridges cost $163.00
so you are basically getting $118.00 of "FREE" ink per cartridge times 12 cartridges and that's $1400.00 worth of "FREE" ink, soooooooo deduct
that from the price of the 8300 and you are basically paying $1369.00 for the Canon 8300 or you can look at it another way and add it to the
cost of the Canon 6300, $1799.00 plus $1400 ink and you are paying $3199.00 for the Canon 6300 and $2769.00 for the Canon 8300.  Naturally
you have to pay more upfront, but the 90ml cartridges will need to be changed soon and you'll have to buy the entire cartridge! And the 130ml cartridges cost about .07/ml more than the 330ml which will add another $280.00 to the "ACTUAL" ink costs of the Canon 6300. I have been wanting to buy the Epson 7900 which is a 24" printer, but it costs more when you consider the ink than the Canon 8300.  Maybe Canon is buying market share, but who gives a SH*T?  Now, the problem, is the Canon as good as the Epson?  Will it last as long?  The heads are an issue because I've only replaced one Epson head ever (A 1280, still in use).  Naturally GD and Bronzing are always a concern with pigment printers and the blacks can't compare with dye based printers.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 02:15:21 PM by Gemmtech » Logged
Gemmtech
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 02:16:25 PM »
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Wayne,

Have you been able to use one of these new Canon printers?  If yes, what are your thoughts?  Compare to your 7900/9900 and 11880?

Thanks,

Gary
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welder
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 03:46:45 PM »
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Ugh. I started out looking at a $1400 ipf6100. Then was convinced that it might be worth the upgrade to the $1800 ipf6300. And now I'm seriously considering the $2800 ipf8300. My wife will not be happy with this progression of events. Oh man, I know the look I'm going to get tonight when I try and explain this.....

But you guys are right, it is hard to get around the logic. Even if I wouldn't be able to use a full set of 330ml inks with the 8300 before they went bad, if I got the 6300 I'd still likely have to buy a set of 130ml inks sooner rather than later. At $79/cartridge that's $948. So the 6300 becomes a $2747 initial investment. With the 8300 at $2769 (and still more ink to boot), that's real hard to ignore.

One other question though....does anyone know about the ink usage for cleaning cycles on the 8300 vs 6300? I thought I had read somewhere the 8300 used more but I don't know if that was truth or speculation.

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jgbowerman
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 05:45:34 PM »
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Ugh. I started out looking at a $1400 ipf6100. Then was convinced that it might be worth the upgrade to the $1800 ipf6300. And now I'm seriously considering the $2800 ipf8300. My wife will not be happy with this progression of events. Oh man, I know the look I'm going to get tonight when I try and explain this.....

But you guys are right, it is hard to get around the logic. Even if I wouldn't be able to use a full set of 330ml inks with the 8300 before they went bad, if I got the 6300 I'd still likely have to buy a set of 130ml inks sooner rather than later. At $79/cartridge that's $948. So the 6300 becomes a $2747 initial investment. With the 8300 at $2769 (and still more ink to boot), that's real hard to ignore.

One other question though....does anyone know about the ink usage for cleaning cycles on the 8300 vs 6300? I thought I had read somewhere the 8300 used more but I don't know if that was truth or speculation.


The only significant difference is when priming the printer at initial startup. According to the setup guide, it takes 20% of the total ink volume when the system is charged after loading all the ink cartridges. After doing this one-time system charging, it is a little confusing because when checking the ink volume remaining in the cartridges, they all appear to be 100% full, but the maintenance cartridge does show 80% volume remaining. So charging the larger 8300 will offset some of this ink savings, but not by enough to significantly change the bottom line. Otherwise, I would assume the printhead cleaning cycles should be the same between the 6300 and the 8300 as they have equal numbers of nozzles.

Best of luck with the wife!

Greg
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Rob Reiter
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 10:54:53 PM »
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As far as ink life goes, on my 8100 I am using 700 ml carts installed over a year ago (I've been using my 8300 for most work thee last five months) and have never had any kind of problem.
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 11:25:25 PM »
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Another way to appreciate the economy with Canon printers is to look at ink-consumption for a given print. Mom's Sunset, in my Oregon coast album, printed to 30"x20" on H. Photo Rag Baryta consumes 4.65 ml of ink. Lake 11,092, same size and paper, consumes 4.491 ml.

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Scott Shelerud
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 11:29:34 PM »
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well, well, well, well.  Look at the mess I created.  LOL!  Welder, I was in EXACTLY the same boat as you, but I gathered the information and talked it over with momma and she couldn't ignore the facts. 

Another plus for the 8300 is that it has the 80G hard drive built in.  What does this do for you?, you may ask.  Well, pull up a chair and let me tell you - put please keep in mind that I am far from an expert.  Any of you experts out there PLEASE correct me if I am leading this man astray ( or deluding myself! ). LOL

As I understand things based on my limited experience and research, Once the job is processed by Photoshop or whatever you are using and it is sent to the printer, it is in the printer specific language (GARO in the case of Canons).  So, what? You may ask.  Well.....if I'm not mistaken it means this:

The printer saves the job on an internal log.  This log is easily accessible via a web-page type interface.  The default folder for all new jobs is labeled "00". I don't recall how many jobs this folder will hold, but 100 comes to mind.  There are an additional 29 folders available on the printer and they are all easily accessible and renamable via the interface.  I just got done renaming one of these folders to reflect the nature of the jobs I just printed and the year.  I then moved the jobs (already printed) from the "00" folder into the renamed folder.  Well, whoopdedoo - why is this guy so excited about this?

Remember me saying that these jobs are already in the GARO language?  This means that if this job were re-initiated, the printer would have no choice but to respond EXACTLY as it did the first time.  Sooooooo, if you reload the same paper. AND if the printer is recalibrated occasionally.  One ought to be able, 3 years from now, to go back into the appropriate folder for 2010 and find the original print job and re-intiate it thereby printing out an exact copy.  And I mean an EXACT copy of the original job!  I don't know if this is important to you, but as a guy who is hoping to get into printing limited editions for myself and other photographers, this is huge!

I'm sure this capability has been around for awhile on other printers, but I am coming from having only a 5100 and I am thrilled by the additional capabilities,  the additional features, and especially the lower effective cost of the 8300.  If you can afford the additional initial outlay, have the room for the printer, and have a way to get the printer to the intended destination this is a no-brainer.

Good luck on convincing momma.  Keep us posted
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Scott Shelerud

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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 03:34:34 AM »
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What's really crazy is the price of the Ipf8300 this side of the pond (UK): 5800 pounds (9015USD) from a Canon Pro dealer (not the cheapest but by no means the most expensive).

The list price is over 12,000 pounds (18,600USD)!
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jgbowerman
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 08:21:49 AM »
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Another plus for the 8300 is that it has the 80G hard drive built in.  What does this do for you?, you may ask.  Well, pull up a chair and let me tell you - put please keep in mind that I am far from an expert.  Any of you experts out there PLEASE correct me if I am leading this man astray ( or deluding myself! ). LOL

I don't recall how many jobs this folder will hold, but 100 comes to mind.  There are an additional 29 folders available on the printer and they are all easily accessible and renamable via the interface.  I just got done renaming one of these folders to reflect the nature of the jobs I just printed and the year.  I then moved the jobs (already printed) from the "00" folder into the renamed folder. 


Correct, Scott, the maximum number of saved jobs is 100 according to the user manual, but too further clarify, it is the total number regardless of how many folders are used (in other words, not 2900). I like this feature. Another advantage of this feature is prints can be made directly from the printer without going to the computer... especially convenient when there is more than one user. I rename my folders by print size, a handy workflow feature for myself.

Also, in case it is not obvious, the 6300 does not come with this feature, it is optional and costs an additional 300 dollars (iPF6350). Yep, I'd say Canon is trying to sell more 8300s than the 6300, kind of interesting and just fine by me.
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prosser53
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2010, 01:05:22 PM »
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I just got my 8300 last night form Atlex. Ordered Wednesday, got it on Thursday. Atlex was great to work with. Hard to beat the price after rebate.
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welder
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2010, 09:45:09 AM »
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Fortunately, I have a spouse that is both supportive and open to logic. Therefore I now have an ipf8300 now on the way Smiley

Thanks all for the feedback.

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