Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Four Cats Bar  (Read 3171 times)
seamus finn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 837


« on: August 24, 2010, 12:03:29 PM »
ReplyReply


This is the Four Cats Bar, a Barcelona landmark since 1897, where Picasso, Rusiñol, and other artists used to meet and display their work on its four walls. A very young Picasso is said to have designed the restaurant's menu cover.





Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6391



WWW
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 12:55:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Seamus, It's a grand shot. As usual you pull your black point down pretty far. I'd have dodged the bartender's face a bit, like this:
I was going to include an example but there doesn't seem to be any way to upload a photograph in this new version of the software.
Well, scratch that. Evidently the photograph uploads when you click Save.
Logged

seamus finn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 837


« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 01:31:57 PM »
ReplyReply



See what you mean about the face, Russ.  I processed the shot on my laptop but looking at it now on my main machine there's a difference.

Incidentally, when you talk about the black point (not for the first time re my stuff) do you think this is a technical flaw on my part, too contrasty, perhaps?
Logged

Haraldo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 102



WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 02:01:35 PM »
ReplyReply

It looks like a "find the hidden object" or "spot the differences" image. It's so busy and playful that I like it.

And if are up for it, Seamus, I'll make a game with it right here. Whaddya say? !
Logged

Haraldo
aka Harald Johnson
Phoozl - photo games & more
seamus finn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 837


« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 02:37:16 PM »
ReplyReply



Go for it, Haraldo! Knock yourself out.
Logged

Haraldo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 102



WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 02:49:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Go for it, Haraldo! Knock yourself out.

OK! Will try for later tonight; tomorrow latest.

Might start a new "Four Cats Bar Game" thread so people don't get confused.

Thanks Seamus. Gonna be fun. You watch!  Smiley
Logged

Haraldo
aka Harald Johnson
Phoozl - photo games & more
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6391



WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 03:44:01 PM »
ReplyReply

Incidentally, when you talk about the black point (not for the first time re my stuff) do you think this is a technical flaw on my part, too contrasty, perhaps?

Seamus, No. It's always a call shot how far to pull the black point down. I really like it in most of your shots. Unless you're shooting something like a fog scene you always need some clipping on the low end, and pulling the black point down fairly low tends to make the picture richer. But you do have to be sure you don't clobber important details. I was suggesting that the guy's face is an important detail, but, again, that's up to the printer.
Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6391



WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 08:30:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Seamus, After I made that last post I went out on the streets of my town for a while. Among about a dozen street shots I got this guy who, I suspect, was just passing through. The reason I'm posting it is that I dragged the black point down pretty far and then had to just touch his face with the dodging brush. It's a similar situation to your Four Cats Bar. Happily the dodging brush actually works properly in CS4 and CS5. I could have used a control point in Silver Efex Pro, but it wouldn't have worked as well since the background behind the face is fairly close in tone and even, in the original, in color. Opening up the 50mm prime to f/1.4 helped a lot with separation, though.
Logged

Stecyk
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17



« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 12:42:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi Russ,

I've been lurking for a while. I've read your recent comments, especially where you emphasize about getting the framing correct in camera and not relying on cropping afterward.

In looking your previous photograph, I am curious why you cut the man's feet off.  Granted the main focus is on the man's face with something poking out at the back of his shirt (underwear?).   But as I look him up and down, I stop abruptly at his feet, noting that they are missing.

It's just a curiousity question.

Regards,
Kevin
Logged
stamper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2785


« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 03:39:49 AM »
ReplyReply

If this was my image - which obviously it isn't - I would have framed/cropped just below the man's hand. IMO there isn't anything of interest there and the tighter frame/crop would focus on the man more and what he is looking at?
Logged

seamus finn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 837


« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 04:46:43 AM »
ReplyReply



Exactly, Russ. In my case,  I'm always aware of the old chemical darkroom mantra: strive for a pure paper-base white through all the tones to a pure black (unless as you say, high-key is the objective). Considering your previous remarks about my darkpoints here and elsewhere, you had me thinking I had developed a heavy hand in this area. I use Lightroom a lot and admit to playing fast and loose with any button that can squeeze out the richest tones available through the range. One of my early destinations in the Develop Panel is the dark button - every time. Sometimes there may be collateral damage like an overlooked face in need of a slight dodge - a minor problem easily rectified.
Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6391



WWW
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 12:15:58 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi Russ,

In looking your previous photograph, I am curious why you cut the man's feet off.  Granted the main focus is on the man's face with something poking out at the back of his shirt (underwear?).   But as I look him up and down, I stop abruptly at his feet, noting that they are missing.

It's just a curiousity question.

Regards,
Kevin

Kevin, You're right. I'd prefer to have been able to include the guy's feet, but I posted the picture as an exercise in black and white tone mapping, not as a good street shot. In order for it to be a decent street shot I'd have to have been able to identify something in the picture as the object of his gaze. He's gazing at something interesting to him, but what is it? I don't know and neither does the viewer. I came out of a narrow passageway to the left, saw him, cranked the aperture down from f/8 to f/1.4 to subdue the background, realized that he was beginning to turn away, raised the camera and shot. The B&W I posted is cropped (horrors!) because I didn't get the camera into a vertical position before I tripped the shutter. Here's the original. Now I'm beginning to think I should have left it as it was. But it's not a particularly good picture, so the question is moot.

The reason I posted the picture is that as in Seamus's bar picture the guy's face is in shadow. Once you convert the picture to B&W and use curves to make sure you have a complete range of grays between the clipped black at the back of his head and the clipped white where the sun shines against the wall in the middle of the frame, you've lost detail in his face. But just a touch of the dodging brush brings it back out. The range of grays in the final result is almost as good as the range of grays Seamus usually gets in his B&Ws, which I admire very much.
Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6391



WWW
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 12:29:36 PM »
ReplyReply

If this was my image - which obviously it isn't - I would have framed/cropped just below the man's hand. IMO there isn't anything of interest there and the tighter frame/crop would focus on the man more and what he is looking at?

Stamper, All I can say is: "You to your fancy and me to my Nancy," as the old lady said when she kissed her cow. As soon as you start cropping, the sky's the limit. How about a crop that isolates his ear. Good abstraction? How about just the top of his head and his hat -- excluding everything but his eyes and the top of his ear? The possibilities literally are infinite.
Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6391



WWW
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 12:35:11 PM »
ReplyReply


Exactly, Russ. In my case,  I'm always aware of the old chemical darkroom mantra: strive for a pure paper-base white through all the tones to a pure black (unless as you say, high-key is the objective). Considering your previous remarks about my darkpoints here and elsewhere, you had me thinking I had developed a heavy hand in this area. I use Lightroom a lot and admit to playing fast and loose with any button that can squeeze out the richest tones available through the range. One of my early destinations in the Develop Panel is the dark button - every time. Sometimes there may be collateral damage like an overlooked face in need of a slight dodge - a minor problem easily rectified.

Seamus, Yes, I grew up with the darkroom too. No, I don't think you have a heavy hand at all. I admire the range of tones I see in your pictures and it's made me wonder if I'm not using too light a hand on the low end. That's what I was playing with in this picture. I wasn't too happy with the picture as a street shot but I was pleased with the range of tones I got when I used a heavier hand on the black point.
Logged

Stecyk
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17



« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 02:16:43 PM »
ReplyReply

I'd prefer to have been able to include the guy's feet, but I posted the picture as an exercise in black and white tone mapping, not as a good street shot. In order for it to be a decent street shot I'd have to have been able to identify something in the picture as the object of his gaze. He's gazing at something interesting to him, but what is it? I don't know and neither does the viewer. I came out of a narrow passageway to the left, saw him, cranked the aperture down from f/8 to f/1.4 to subdue the background, realized that he was beginning to turn away, raised the camera and shot. The B&W I posted is cropped (horrors!) because I didn't get the camera into a vertical position before I tripped the shutter.
You answered my question regarding his feet--thank you. 
Logged
stamper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2785


« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2010, 03:41:04 AM »
ReplyReply

Stamper, All I can say is: "You to your fancy and me to my Nancy," as the old lady said when she kissed her cow. As soon as you start cropping, the sky's the limit. How about a crop that isolates his ear. Good abstraction? How about just the top of his head and his hat -- excluding everything but his eyes and the top of his ear? The possibilities literally are infinite.

Unquote

I will add a little to what I stated. I read a while back about cropping that if you crop in the area of someone's feet it doesn't look good, so you should make it more drastic and crop nearer the knees so that it doesn't look as if you made a mistake.

Quote

Kevin, You're right. I'd prefer to have been able to include the guy's feet, but I posted the picture as an exercise in black and white tone mapping, not as a good street shot.

Unquote

Russ you have been on here long enough to realise if you post something then the merits, or lack of them, of an image will be commented on in regards to all of the image and not just the contrast? All of it is fair game? Perhaps you have a really good image somewhere that has good black and white tone mapping?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 03:43:35 AM by stamper » Logged

Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12213


« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2010, 04:02:33 AM »
ReplyReply

This is turning into an unconscious definition of what's wrong with digital printing.

All those sliders and things are there and simply demand that one use them - and often it isn't necessary. But how many times does a perfectly good, virgin, file leave the computer?

In the wet, it was different; I think people were more inclined to work by their reliable gut than by their (over-) educated brain.

Rob C
Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6391



WWW
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 09:18:00 AM »
ReplyReply

I will add a little to what I stated. I read a while back about cropping that if you crop in the area of someone's feet it doesn't look good, so you should make it more drastic and crop nearer the knees so that it doesn't look as if you made a mistake.

It's an interesting opinion, but before I'd accept it as black letter law I'd like to know whose opinion it is. Even though I tend to agree with the opinion there are always plenty of exceptions to a "rule" like that one. At the same time I'd have to admit that the photo I posted isn't one of them.

Quote
Russ you have been on here long enough to realise if you post something then the merits, or lack of them, of an image will be commented on in regards to all of the image and not just the contrast? All of it is fair game? Perhaps you have a really good image somewhere that has good black and white tone mapping?

Stamper, I have to agree with you. It was a mistake to post that picture. There are always a few participants on here (To protect the guilty I won't mention names) who have difficulty dealing with the subject at hand.
Logged

Eric Myrvaagnes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8064



WWW
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 11:40:12 AM »
ReplyReply

It's an interesting opinion, but before I'd accept it as black letter law I'd like to know whose opinion it is. Even though I tend to agree with the opinion there are always plenty of exceptions to a "rule" like that one. At the same time I'd have to admit that the photo I posted isn't one of them.
It's a pretty poor rule that doesn't have a truck load of exceptions.

Stamper, I have to agree with you. It was a mistake to post that picture. There are always a few participants on here (To protect the guilty I won't mention names) who have difficulty dealing with the subject at hand.
Russ, you get no demerit in my book for posting that photo (although I agree with the quibbles about the feet). For me the ambiguity of not knowing what the guy is looking at adds to the mystery and hence the interest of the image. It leaves something to the imagination. Very striking-looking guy.

Eric
Logged

-Eric Myrvaagnes

http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
seamus finn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 837


« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 02:57:16 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
All those sliders and things are there and simply demand that one use them - and often it isn't necessary. But how many times does a perfectly good, virgin, file leave the computer?



Rob C - In the wet darkroom, I don't think I ever made a straigt print other than to find out what was wrong with it. On the other hand, I've more than once made a perfectly satisfactory print from a straight digital file.  Interesting.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad