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Author Topic: Photokina Coverage by Capture Integration  (Read 14046 times)
narikin
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« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2010, 06:07:04 PM »
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Prekina update: 120mm Schneider tilt-shift lens for Phase One DF

what is interesting is the phrase "lenseS" in that brochure, and the 90/f4 on the cover! and a 50/2.8 inside !!
is there more than one on the way perhaps?

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narikin
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« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2010, 06:09:28 PM »
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Prekina update: Capture One 5.2 released

- Improved P65+ image quality.


can you provide more info on this line Doug - do I have to go back and re-process some files, and am I going to notice an improvement or not really?

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2010, 06:34:04 PM »
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what is interesting is the phrase "lenseS" in that brochure, and the 90/f4 on the cover! and a 50/2.8 inside !!
is there more than one on the way perhaps?

The 50mm and 90mm are for 35mm dSLRs.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2010, 06:36:56 PM »
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can you provide more info on this line Doug - do I have to go back and re-process some files, and am I going to notice an improvement or not really?

When I spoke to the head of the Image Core team (the math squad that does the underlying processing) he highlighted large improvements in the removal of stuck pixels in long exposures with especially notable improvements in 40+ and 65+ exposures of 30 seconds and longer.

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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2010, 07:17:00 PM »
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"Especially notable improvements in 40+ and 65+" does it mean it's a dalsa sensor thing or guys like me (P45+ user) can also expect improvements?

Redesigned Phase One back with a nice LCD would be huge. Live view on the DB's LCD would be even bigger but that would be asking too much wouldn't it.
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BJNY
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« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2010, 04:32:55 AM »
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Re: LCD. Phase One is not blind to the fact that their LCD is about the same as the one-generation-old Canon 1Ds Mark 2. The fact they have continued to lead the market in sales without a model with an updated LCD shows how strong the overall product is. A Phase One with a new LCD would clearly sell well. Only time will tell. Fortunately "time" in this case may be as little as one week. Stay tuned!

I'd like captures to appear on an Apple iDevice.
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Guillermo
michele
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« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2010, 12:38:47 PM »
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Oh, perhpas the "possible" new 35mm will be the same of the older one, i'm not sure if this is going to tell you something but it seems that the lens correction of the old mamiya 35mm is exactly the same of the new 35mmD from phase... perhaps they will change the lettering and add a "D" and 1500 euro more to the price
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bcooter
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« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2010, 02:10:55 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
The fact they have continued to lead the market in sales without a model with an updated LCD shows how strong the overall product is. A Phase One with a new LCD would clearly sell well. Only time will tell. Fortunately "time" in this case may be as little as one week. Stay tuned!

Since no mf company publishes sales numbers I don't know how anyone knows who leads the "back" market, but regardless Phase' success came early on when they had the most stable backs and above all software.  Now the field is more level (and smaller).

As far as cameras, I'd be surprised if any medium format company is even close to the numbers of the H series blad.

Still, an improved lcd would be nice, but it's been so long and most of us have found so many ways to work around it, I don't think I'd jump up and down for the perfect lcd, unless it had live view, then I'd probably take a look, unless it's hooked to a trillion dollar p85.

BC
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2010, 02:18:11 PM »
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Oh, perhpas the "possible" new 35mm will be the same of the older one, i'm not sure if this is going to tell you something but it seems that the lens correction of the old mamiya 35mm is exactly the same of the new 35mmD from phase... perhaps they will change the lettering and add a "D" and 1500 euro more to the price

I suspect that will not be the case. However, if and when any new version of a lens is released you can be sure we (Capture Integration) will test it to see. We don't want to sell a customer a more expensive lens with the same performance any more than the customer wants to buy it.

In the case of the 45D the first two samples we received tested not much better than a 45 non D. However thereafter we were pleased to find considerably better results.

The 150D blew the 150 non D away - see the test on our website.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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ondebanks
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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2010, 03:25:35 PM »
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Yes there was no question of the 150mm D being at least a different optical design - it is f2.8 vs f3.5 for the older AF lens.

But I still suspect that the 150mm D is the same optically as the excellent manual focus 150mm A (also f2.8 ) lens. And who knows what the 35mm D will be?

It would really to help settle these concerns/doubts if camera manufacturers would simply provide more factual information on their products. I'm not asking for Zemax .ZMX files with the complete lens ray tracing recipe (although that would be nice!!!), because they might want to keep that level of detail secret from competitors (not that a competitor couldn't reverse-engineer pretty much any lens from a dismantled sample, if they really wanted to). But a spot-diagram & MTF curve for each lens would be brilliant and would clarify the unique signature of each and every lens design.

Ray

PS while previewing this, I discovered that if you happen to put a closing bracket after the number 8, in a context like "(also f2.8 )" it automatically turns into a smiley "(also f2.Cool".
"How fast is that lens, Ray?"
"It's f two-point-cool, John. Two-point-COOLLL..."


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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2010, 04:00:37 PM »
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It would really to help settle these concerns/doubts if camera manufacturers would simply provide more factual information on their products.

Can't help with the MTFs but here is a link - click on any given lens and you will see the design of the lens.

http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy/

I'd rather compare lenses by taking pictures than stare at MTF charts - but that's just me. I understand some people would prefer the MTF charts.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2010, 04:50:27 PM »
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Well I tested along with Jack the first 45D Doug had and it was no better than the older version. I did buy one after that and it was clearly a winner although I just sold it for the 55MM LS which I finally can try out tomorrow. The 150D i have is just killer sharp and if there is a 150 LS on the horizon I will look at it but going to be hard to give this one up. The old 35mm lens sucks unless you find one out of five that is actually pretty good, for a P40+ the chances are much better given the crop but the P65 folks forget it. I have no doubt if a 35mm D hits the market it will be excellent. Even questioning it is just flat out silly. Phase is not stupid they know very well any lens made today BETTER perform on a P65+ back or it will not sell PERIOD. Bottom line anything coming out of Phase camp in the lens world is designed to work with a 60 mpx back or more and anything less they know they will be closing the door on themselves. Hassy knows the same thing so given what these guy's are producing in backs there is no way they are going to kick their own ass. It simply makes no business sense.  
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adammork
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« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2010, 05:11:54 PM »
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Even questioning it is just flat out silly. Phase is not stupid they know very well any lens made today BETTER perform on a P65+ back or it will not sell PERIOD. Bottom line anything coming out of Phase camp in the lens world is designed to work with a 60 mpx back or more and anything less they know they will be closing the door on themselves.

Then forgive me for being silly - but was it not Phase that charged a premium price for an old Russian lens that had some, to say it kind, personality in regards of even sharpness??

/adam
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2010, 05:51:48 PM »
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Then forgive me for being silly - but was it not Phase that charged a premium price for an old Russian lens that had some, to say it kind, personality in regards of even sharpness??

True. I do not take anything for granted. The TS lens did not live up to our expectations.

That's why we test everything and believe only what we see with our own eyes.

But I do think that Phase learned a lesson there. You'll note shortly thereafter they partnered with Schneider for their leaf-shutter lens line.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2010, 06:32:47 PM »
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Then forgive me for being silly - but was it not Phase that charged a premium price for an old Russian lens that had some, to say it kind, personality in regards of even sharpness??

/adam

Okay no one is perfect and that was some time ago as well and lately that has not been the case. Granted silly maybe a bad choice of words but I have faith in them to come to market these days with good product. I have been real happy with the latest purchases so far and i did a buy a few things. Just don't mention it to my wife.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2010, 12:14:22 AM »
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Then forgive me for being silly - but was it not Phase that charged a premium price for an old Russian lens that had some, to say it kind, personality in regards of even sharpness??

/adam


My feeling on that endeavor was that there was optimism that a select number of quality lenses could be pulled form a large purchased batch, modified to bring the most out from the lens (with a digital back), and then be a quality alternative for tilt/shift. As that process unfolded, it was becoming apparent (to me) that the results were not where Phase One hoped to get them, despite only working on the very best copies. And while the $3,999 price vs previous $800 price seemed like a money grab, I don't believe it was as simple as just buying $800 lenses and marking them up to an obscene price. The process of testing and working on the products and (especially) the likely amount of lens waste that simply wasn't even up to the task of being a candidate for that process played a significant role in the pricing. When it became apparent that the lenses weren't cutting the mustard despite best efforts, there was a notable decline in the emphasis put on that lens as a viable solution (at least in the US).

As far as improvements on D lenses vs older Mamiya AF/non AF lenses, some lenses improve a great deal, others not so much, in terms of sharpness. What I have seen more widespread are improvements in chromatic aberrations on the newer lenses, even when there wasn't a significant sharpness increase. Some of the older Mamiya glass is very good, in terms of sharpness. Little difference, if any, is noticeable between the 120mm. The 45mm was modestly improved in sharpness, more so in CA correction, and in general, the build quality from all the lenses is significantly improved, and the warranty extended from 1 year to 3 years. On balance I don't see any highway robbery being committed. The last published price of the original 45mm AF was $1,332 and the introductory price of the D version was $1,890. Not an unreasonable difference.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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michele
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« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2010, 02:35:44 AM »
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Oh, we know that the new 45D is better then the old one. At least if you don't need it open wide. It seems that both Hasselblad HC (well, the 35-90HCD is different) and the Mamiya 35mm have problems of design, they have lot of distortions. For me this is not a problem, cromatic aberration is never an issue because of software correction. I think if Phase will make a new 35mm will not change the design, what i hope for is a high level of control of the production quality. The biggest problem of my 35mm is finding the right point of focus to get a good quality image, but this is due to sample differences. The other problem is the lack of contrast wide open, but i never use it at 3,5...
If they can avoid sample variations and give us good 35mm at the price of the new 45D i'll buy one. Of course, i just make a fast test of the lens correction in capture one, all my thoughts are made on this, i hope i'm making a mistake Wink
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2010, 07:42:18 AM »
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For me this is not a problem, cromatic aberration is never an issue because of software correction.

Even the best software correction for chromatic aberration has difficulty with slightly out-of-focus CA which can be some of the nastiest to look at.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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BJNY
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« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2010, 11:46:50 AM »
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I'd like captures to appear on an Apple iDevice.

Would be great if all digital backs would have WiFi and create JPG to beam over to iPad without having to use a computer in between as with Leaf Capture Remote app.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10055-10851
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Guillermo
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« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2010, 03:32:51 PM »
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according to this site... http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/photokina-2010-Drei-Tilt-Shift-Objektive-von-Schneider-Kreuznach ...
the 120 TS is around 3900,-
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