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Author Topic: Leaf Aptus-II 12  (Read 32136 times)
Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2010, 02:43:25 PM »
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I'm wondering who the target customer is for any back that's over 60MP.

The Seitz Roundshot offers 160 MP (iirc) and has been around for years. If you want to blow people away with highly detailed landscapes or interiors, then isn't this the way to go?

If Seitz had made a 617 back compatible with a Sinar 5 * 7" (for full movements) I would have bought one.
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Alex MacPherson
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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2010, 04:32:27 PM »
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Wow...  what's with all the haters?

 Full frame 645 ... cool! Good for Leaf!
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narikin
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2010, 04:36:02 PM »
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Leaf should know better. Who else, other than an artwork repro photographer, is going to really need an 80mp back. I think Leaf is grasping at straws here.

Please don't mix up what YOU need with what EVERYONE will need.  I have written to my dealer asking them to put my name down already.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2010, 04:50:53 PM »
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it has always been the same: some will always ask "why more resolution?"
But those things sell very well, obviously...
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JonathanBenoit
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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2010, 05:03:53 PM »
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Please don't mix up what YOU need with what EVERYONE will need.  I have written to my dealer asking them to put my name down already.

I was referring more to the statement that it is as good or better than multishot. Obviously this won't be the case. I think leaf knows that there could be a lot of repro photographers with high interest after a statement like that.
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JSK
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2010, 05:06:59 PM »
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Leaf should know better. Who else, other than an artwork repro photographer, is going to really need an 80mp back. I think Leaf is grasping at straws here.

you'll be surprised how many photographers have sold their current MF systems just a half year ago and decide to work with 5DMkII until the next MF "step up" Camera arrives..
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2010, 05:22:53 PM »
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I was referring more to the statement that it is as good or better than multishot. Obviously this won't be the case. I think leaf knows that there could be a lot of repro photographers with high interest after a statement like that.


I think stating it is as good or better than multishot is a reasonable statement from a general standpoint. Obviously they mean from a lower resolution multi-shot, since there is no multi-shot higher resolving than 50MP. And in that case, there are situations where the quality could be very equivalent. Last week I stopped into a client who captures carpeting, flooring, etc. They shoot 22MP multi-shot. It is not enough resolution for them. They need more. Should Leaf not make more?


Steve Hendrix
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JonathanBenoit
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2010, 05:41:17 PM »
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I think stating it is as good or better than multishot is a reasonable statement from a general standpoint. Obviously they mean from a lower resolution multi-shot, since there is no multi-shot higher resolving than 50MP. And in that case, there are situations where the quality could be very equivalent. Last week I stopped into a client who captures carpeting, flooring, etc. They shoot 22MP multi-shot. It is not enough resolution for them. They need more. Should Leaf not make more?


Steve Hendrix

we'll see. I can't see someone upgrading from a multishot to a single shot regardless of the megapixels. The natural path would be to upgrade to a higher resolution multishot. I just can't imagine an still life guy choosing the Aptus-II 12 over a 50mp multishot back.
A comparison to a 22mp multishot would be interesting. I still think you'll have a noticeably cleaner image with the 22.
So I'm assuming an Aptus-II 11 will be coming soon? crop sensor. how many megapixels?
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2010, 06:17:35 PM »
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we'll see. I can't see someone upgrading from a multishot to a single shot regardless of the megapixels. The natural path would be to upgrade to a higher resolution multishot. I just can't imagine an still life guy choosing the Aptus-II 12 over a 50mp multishot back.
A comparison to a 22mp multishot would be interesting. I still think you'll have a noticeably cleaner image with the 22.
So I'm assuming an Aptus-II 11 will be coming soon? crop sensor. how many megapixels?


I can see multiple clients that are requesting this right now. I met with one last week and am meeting one this week. Flooring and food.


Steve Hendrix
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2010, 06:25:27 PM »
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Last week I stopped into a client who captures carpeting, flooring, etc. They shoot 22MP multi-shot. It is not enough resolution for them. They need more. Should Leaf not make more?

Hi Steve,

Rather than longing for something that may or may not transpire in time, wouldn't the obvious advise (from a quality point-of-view rather than generating immediate sales) be to use a longer focal length and stitch? Especially easy with stationary objects.

Cheers,
Bart
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2010, 06:35:31 PM »
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Hi Steve,

Rather than longing for something that may or may not transpire in time, wouldn't the obvious advise (from a quality point-of-view rather than generating immediate sales) be to use a longer focal length and stitch? Especially easy with stationary objects.

Cheers,
Bart


Bart:

The point is - they want more resolution. They need it fast, they need it simple. They don't wish to stitch, they don't wish to shoot multi shot. For the flooring client in particular, they need more resolution, delivered to them faster. There are other facets of the solution that also interest them, bottom line is it addresses their quality/productivity issues and that is what concerns them. It doesn't have anything to do with "generating an immediate sale". And I'm not sure what you mean by "may or may not transpire in time"?


Steve Hendrix
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2010, 06:57:59 PM »
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Bart:

The point is - they want more resolution. They need it fast, they need it simple. They don't wish to stitch, they don't wish to shoot multi shot. For the flooring client in particular, they need more resolution, delivered to them faster.

How's waiting for a future higher resolution sensor/camera going to get them higher resolution results faster, unless one strictly focuses on processing time? I understood that they felt the need to be able and differentiate their offering now.

Quote
There are other facets of the solution that also interest them, bottom line is it addresses their quality/productivity issues and that is what concerns them.

Quality and productivity doesn't always go hand in hand.

Quote
It doesn't have anything to do with "generating an immediate sale". And I'm not sure what you mean by "may or may not transpire in time"?

When the need to capture higher resolution is the client's desire, and current product offerings do not satisfy their immediate needs, then what's wrong with providing an alternative solution? Even if they reject it from a productivity standpoint, it will satisfy their quality requirements now, and they will return to you when the hardware solution presents itself!

Cheers,
Bart
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2010, 07:08:12 PM »
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Wow...  what's with all the haters?

No hate, but disapointment resulting from misplaced expectations that the next generation Leaf/Phase back would meet my needs. Now, to be fair, we have not seen yet news from the phaseone line. It could be that they have decided to focus Leaf on studio and the Phaseone line on the great outdoors, but some clear communication on that would be welcome.

I don't doubt the fact that some people might need more resolution in single shots assuming that they have optimized all the rest already. I also understand that if the choice is between staying still or at least improving one aspect of the backs performance it is better to move forward. My personnal concern though is that the resources focused on this will obviously not have worked on what I - and many others it would seem - would prefer to see, meaning live view, lower prices and overall more ambitious physical speccing starting to close the huge gap with the 645D for instance.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2010, 07:11:04 PM »
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How's waiting for a future higher resolution sensor/camera going to get them higher resolution results faster, unless one strictly focuses on processing time? I understood that they felt the need to be able and differentiate their offering now.

Quality and productivity doesn't always go hand in hand.

When the need to capture higher resolution is the client's desire, and current product offerings do not satisfy their immediate needs, then what's wrong with providing an alternative solution? Even if they reject it from a productivity standpoint, it will satisfy their quality requirements now, and they will return to you when the hardware solution presents itself!

Cheers,
Bart


Bart:

With all due respect, I'm not going to further discuss the details of what my client is considering. You're making some generalized assumptions about a situation, the specifics of which you aren't privy to and that I don't feel are - in the interest of this thread - worth deciphering.

Instead, I'd like to stick to my basic point that there are clients and situations that yes, are interested in high resolution single shot capture, regardless of whether they are coming from single or multi-shot capture solutions.


Steve Hendrix
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2010, 07:28:11 PM »
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Bart:

With all due respect, I'm not going to further discuss the details of what my client is considering.

Fair enough.

Quote
You're making some generalized assumptions about a situation, the specifics of which you aren't privy to and that I don't feel are - in the interest of this thread - worth deciphering.

Hey, I can only work based on the info that you supplied, you can't expect clairvoyance based on that!  Undecided

Cheers,
Bart
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paul_jones
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« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2010, 08:22:52 PM »
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i notice contax mount isnt listed....
is this the end of supporting what is probably the most desirable camera system? it would be a shame

paul
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JonathanBenoit
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« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2010, 08:23:31 PM »
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I can see multiple clients that are requesting this right now. I met with one last week and am meeting one this week. Flooring and food.


Steve Hendrix
\

I can understand from both a selling and buying standpoint why 22mp wouldn't be enough resolution for many tasks. but whether it is flooring or food, where would the benefit be for buying an 80mp over a multishot 50 or even a single shot 60 mp? You can get these for a fraction of the cost and in 99 out of a 100 cases you still have too many megapixels. Are photographers lazy? Does it take too long for flooring and food photographers to let the  multishot backs do their job? When does this mp race slow down? As photographers, we need to express our opinions. I hope that photographers finally realize what they need and buy accordingly. The only good thing with this is that equal 33 or 39 mp backs are available slightly used for cheap.

Give me a multishot back that can shoot a 24"x36" piece of art at 360 dpi and 1:1 without stitching and that's another story. At least that would address art repro.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2010, 08:38:04 PM »
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Fair enough.

Hey, I can only work based on the info that you supplied, you can't expect clairvoyance based on that!  Undecided

Cheers,
Bart


Bart - no offense meant, just could see that conveying the many discussions I've had with the client, their workflow, etc., was going to end up being a very difficult process to reconcile with your questions, which were reasonable, but weren't going to be specific enough to this client's workflow.

Again - my only point was situations do exist for this product. For most applications, the 80MP is certainly overkill. So those who operate under those requirements, save your money. But it's probably not the product for you. It's good to hear from those who would like it to be, to know that desire is there. For all of medium format's publicized shortcomings, the interest level remains very high, which is a very good thing.


Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2010, 08:46:54 PM »
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\

I can understand from both a selling and buying standpoint why 22mp wouldn't be enough resolution for many tasks. but whether it is flooring or food, where would the benefit be for buying an 80mp over a multishot 50 or even a single shot 60 mp? You can get these for a fraction of the cost and in 99 out of a 100 cases you still have too many megapixels. Are photographers lazy? Does it take too long for flooring and food photographers to let the  multishot backs do their job? When does this mp race slow down? As photographers, we need to express our opinions. I hope that photographers finally realize what they need and buy accordingly. The only good thing with this is that equal 33 or 39 mp backs are available slightly used for cheap.

Give me a multishot back that can shoot a 24"x36" piece of art at 360 dpi and 1:1 without stitching and that's another story. At least that would address art repro.


Jonathan, I don't understand your "selling and buying" statement. Are you referring to POS materials?

I didn't say the client hadn't already considered a 60MP solution (they may still). These discussions didn't begin yesterday. Price-wise, I think 60MP digital backs at a "fraction" of the cost of an 80MP back is a bit of an overstatement...In fact, as of today, an 80MP Leaf Aptus II costs less than a 60MP Phase One, although I'm sure that may change shortly.

I don't understand your lazy photography remark either. If anything, I find just the opposite. Photographers are working harder than they ever have (at least our clients are). More shots, faster turnaround, speed to market. The pace is intense and yes, time is a factor. I don't think it has anything to do with laziness. A single shot solution can make a huge difference.


Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2010, 09:03:47 PM »
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don't forget that clients crop often, and high megapixels can be a life saver. also makes for easier compositing, being able to blow up parts of an image. if i could afford to have more than 40mp i would.

paul
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